Mountain Bike as Tourer?

I'm just beginning to research what bike to pick up for summer use.
I want to road ride a lot, some dirt trails, maybe jump a branch
or two, but nothing extreme. I favour a mountain bike but would
like some pointers on which ones to look at first.

i hope to go for all day rides so I'd like fenders and some
way to attach bags (panniers?) Lights will be necessary
in case i get stuck out too long and have to come back
in the dusk or later (shouldn't happen often but i'd
like to be prepared).

price point is around 1000 canadian dollars.

thanks for any suggestions...thehick.

"frank-in-toronto" wrote in message
...
I'm just beginning to research what bike to pick up for summer use.
I want to road ride a lot, some dirt trails, maybe jump a branch
or two, but nothing extreme. I favour a mountain bike but would
like some pointers on which ones to look at first.

i hope to go for all day rides so I'd like fenders and some
way to attach bags (panniers?) Lights will be necessary
in case i get stuck out too long and have to come back
in the dusk or later (shouldn't happen often but i'd
like to be prepared).

price point is around 1000 canadian dollars.

A bit more than you might want to spend, but take a look at

Bruce Gordon's BLT - arguably the best touring bike for the money:

http://www.bgcycles.com/blt.html

Or if you prefer something a bit less rugged, check out Heron Touring or
Randonneur:

http://www.heronbicycles.com/index.html

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:20:28 -0800, "bfd" wrote:


"frank-in-toronto" wrote in message
.. .
I'm just beginning to research what bike to pick up for summer use.
I want to road ride a lot, some dirt trails, maybe jump a branch
or two, but nothing extreme. I favour a mountain bike but would
like some pointers on which ones to look at first.

i hope to go for all day rides so I'd like fenders and some
way to attach bags (panniers?) Lights will be necessary
in case i get stuck out too long and have to come back
in the dusk or later (shouldn't happen often but i'd
like to be prepared).

price point is around 1000 canadian dollars.

A bit more than you might want to spend, but take a look at

Bruce Gordon's BLT - arguably the best touring bike for the money:

http://www.bgcycles.com/blt.html

Or if you prefer something a bit less rugged, check out Heron Touring or
Randonneur:

http://www.heronbicycles.com/index.html
thanks for the suggestions, but i'm not rich and i'm
gonna get a mountain bike that will double as a pretty
good road bike. i don't mind changing the wheels
for the different applications or maybe i might get
those tires that are mostly flat across with some
knobbies on the sides.

the trek x01 looks good too but not what i'm
looking for. there is tons of info on touring bikes
available, i want something a little different.

excuse my ignorance but my current oldie mountain
bike is solid front and back, so i have no
real experience riding suspension models. what will
be so bad riding a front susp bike on pavement?
....thehick

In article ,
frank-in-toronto wrote:

I'm just beginning to research what bike to pick up for summer use.
I want to road ride a lot, some dirt trails, maybe jump a branch
or two, but nothing extreme. I favour a mountain bike but would
like some pointers on which ones to look at first.

i hope to go for all day rides so I'd like fenders and some
way to attach bags (panniers?) Lights will be necessary
in case i get stuck out too long and have to come back
in the dusk or later (shouldn't happen often but i'd
like to be prepared).

price point is around 1000 canadian dollars.

thanks for any suggestions...thehick.

As others have pointed out, a lot of bikes will do what you want. The
cheapest option would be a 20-year-old road bike, many of which will
accomodate fenders and moderately fat tires. They also usually have
eyelets for bags and fenders. I have happily ridden my road bikes (even
the race bike) on dirt roads, gravel roads, and other odd surfaces with
ease, so don't fret too much about the dirtability.

Next up, and a credible choice, would be an old rigid mountain bike.
Cheap, amazingly sturdy, almost always eyeletted for fenders and racks,
and lots of clearance for fenders and fat tires. The smaller 26" MTB
wheels will also be rather tougher than road-sized 700c wheels, should
you go in for abusive off-roading.

If I was in your position, I would incline to a high-quality one of
these, and add slick (road) tires. On a dry dirt trail, such a bike
would be as fast or faster than any other mountain bike. A new rigid
mountain bike would be fine, too, but is relatively rare, at least for
good-quality ones. For a couple hundred dollars, you could get the
nicest, most pristine steel-framed mountain bike ever. I bet a dollar
you could find a virtually unridden example within a week of looking. It
would be fun to ride, durable, and you'd have a ton of room left in your
budget for good accessories (just wait until you price panniers).

After that, you could get a new touring bike (C$1000 should get you into
a Sora-equipped road bike, probably of touristy type). Such a machine
would be the fastest type of bike that would meet all your requirements.
Yes, you can ride them over branches. I recommend looking for something
with reasonable fat-tire capabilities, but warn you that such a bike, as
a new purchase, will probably break your budget.

You could also go for a new mountain bike. Hardtail MTBs (the ones with
front suspension only) are nice, can be light, are perfectly dirt-worthy
(you can now buy "hucking" hardtails that are designed to be
indestructible by 20-somethings with a penchant for epic crashes;
overkill for your needs, but that's the range of toughness available),
and again, probably have all the eyelets and fender clearance you need.
This would be a plush ride, but I have a hardtail MTB, and while I love
riding it up and down serious trails (I live in Vancouver; we know from
serious), it's pretty dreary on the road. If you go this route, I
recommend slick tires again, since it sounds like you're a 90% road kind
of guy.

the upright-versus-drop bar debate is a messy one for many, but I think
it is simple: flat bars cost you a couple of km/h at the top end, but
are probably more pleasant to ride for light to moderate distances. I
happen to know a couple of regular commuters old enough to value the
merits of an unbent back, and both favour a flat bar on their commuting
bicycles. I might do the same, but my commute serves as training for my
road racing. If you really care about speed, you can add a set of aero
bars to a set of flat bars, which gives you a very nice extra hand
position (beware the inability to brake; use with discretion) that
happens to be very fast. Ride a slick-tired flat-bar mountain bike with
clip-on aero bars, and you would be nearly as fast as on a road bike.

I think my recommendation is obvious, but let me be explicit: if I was
you, I'd buy a used, rigid (no suspension) mountain bike. I'd buy a
really clean one, and pay well for it. But I'm cheap. And I don't think
you're out for top speed.

Among new bikes, here's a nice choice:

http://marinbikes.com/bicycles_2005/...pecs_novato.ht
ml

Marin Novato. It's a rigid bike (I said they were rare; they're not
nonexistent) for US$620 MSRP. Dealer will probably sell for less.

Here's another:

http://norco.com/05/2005bikes/bikes/det_crd3.htm

Norco CRD-3. It's a road bike, but a touring-y one, with some reasonably
serious rims: double-walled, 32 spokes apiece, and overly skinny (for
your use) 23 mm tires. I'd jump a branch with it, but it's definitely a
_road_ bike.

Here's a very cheap and cheerful option:

http://norco.com/05/2005bikes/bikes/det_plateau.htm

C$405 MSRP for a capable but unexciting "comfort" bike: flat bars,
road-ish tires (seem to be a 'hybrid' tread, which usually means
inverted knobbies. A reasonable on/off-road compromise, but I prefer
more road-oriented, slicker tires), and a fairly crude 50mm suspension
fork. Even has a suspension seatpost for a nice squishy ride. It would
be heavy (especially compared to that Marin) but it's an everybike: it
will go anywhere, do anything, and all modestly well.

Regarding your lighting request: if you expect to only ride in the dark
rarely, you could probably get away with a reasonable white LED light up
front, and a reasonable red LED light at the back (or two, for
redundancy and visibility). Good front lights cost $15-30+; good rear
lights cost $5-15+. I would avoid lights that don't take AA or AAA
batteries; the N-cell powered lights are tiny and bright, but N-cells
are more expensive and unavailable as rechargeables. These are all what
are referred to as "be seen" lights, as opposed to "seeing" lights. The
difference is that in truly dark conditions, you can't safely ride
solely by the light of a small LED front light, but they suffice to make
you visible to cars. Most urban and suburban areas are well-lit enough
that that's all you need; I happily commute using only LEDs quite often.
Lights good enough to ride by in true darkness start around $100.

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

In article ,
frank-in-toronto wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:20:28 -0800, "bfd" wrote:


"frank-in-toronto" wrote in message
.. .
I'm just beginning to research what bike to pick up for summer use.
I want to road ride a lot, some dirt trails, maybe jump a branch
or two, but nothing extreme. I favour a mountain bike but would
like some pointers on which ones to look at first.

excuse my ignorance but my current oldie mountain
bike is solid front and back, so i have no
real experience riding suspension models. what will
be so bad riding a front susp bike on pavement?
...thehick

Well, it's not a big deal, but the suspension can and will compress from
pedaling forces, especially when you're pressing hard. When I try to
seriously accelerate out of the saddle, or climb a hill, the ront end
definitely bobs, and can even pogo hard enough to lift the front wheel
off the ground. It robs efficiency in those situations, and doesn't feel
good. It's far less of a problem than rear suspension compression, but
it still bugs me.

The upside is an even softer ride, the ability to absorb bigger drops
with ease, improved handling and braking (=faster, more comfortable
riding) on rough trails. That latter one is why there's suspension on
mountain bikes: the object of the game is to keep the front tire in
contact with the ground as much as possible.

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 19:42:40 -0500 in rec.bicycles.misc,
frank-in-toronto wrote:

I'm just beginning to research what bike to pick up for summer use.
I want to road ride a lot, some dirt trails, maybe jump a branch
or two, but nothing extreme. I favour a mountain bike but would
like some pointers on which ones to look at first.

i've toured in alaska, the yukon, and britain and france on a
mountain bike with inverse tread tires (ritchey crossbites when i
can find them). fat tires with a smooth tread like them can be
inflated to 65 psi for a relatively efficient ride on asphalt or
concrete.

my next bike will be lighter, probably titanium, and probably
have a moderate travel front shock fork for more comfort when
riding cobblestones, potholes and off-road, and i'm considering
adding a bob trailer for camping trips.

but my old $350 diamondback has lasted for the past 10 years. i
have zefal plastic fenders, front and rear racks and panniers,
and have used it for great camping trips. for 7 of those years i
had no car and rode everywhere, and toured at least a week every
year, and had only 3 or 4 flat tires. when i had a touring bike
back in the early 80s, i was always fixing flats on those damn
narrow tires.

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:07:53 GMT, Bonehenge
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:46:22 -0500, frank-in-toronto
wrote:


thanks for the suggestions, but i'm not rich and i'm
gonna get a mountain bike that will double as a pretty
good road bike.

Let us know when you find it. G
ok. maybe i should have said, i'd like to get...

I own five bikes, a carbon road bike, a 5" travel "all mountain" FS
mountain bike, a hardtail mountain bike, a downhill bike, and a 'cross
bike. My previous commuter was a hard tail mountain bike with
semi-slicks. It still sucks on the road, so I bought the XO1. My XO
is optimized towards pavement, with 32mm road tires.

Jumping things and _pretty good_ road performance are mutually
exclusive. Jumping things and bearable road performance, OR not
jumping things, but riding dirt trails, and pretty good road
performance are doable. Even a full rigid mountain bike, if you can
still find a decent one, will only be OK on the road, but will not be
all that hot for drops.

If you said "I want to ride trails, do short commutes and the
occasional milk run", a mountain bike would be fine. "All day
touring" is a totally different ball game.
hmmmmmm. i really don't jump. i really will be road riding 99%
of the time. maybe mountain is not the way to go. as spring
approaches, i'll visit the lbs and see what's available.
thanks...thehick

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 07:42:50 -0500, frank-in-toronto
wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:07:53 GMT, Bonehenge
wrote:

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:46:22 -0500, frank-in-toronto
wrote:


thanks for the suggestions, but i'm not rich and i'm
gonna get a mountain bike that will double as a pretty
good road bike.

Let us know when you find it. G
ok. maybe i should have said, i'd like to get...

I own five bikes, a carbon road bike, a 5" travel "all mountain" FS
mountain bike, a hardtail mountain bike, a downhill bike, and a 'cross
bike. My previous commuter was a hard tail mountain bike with
semi-slicks. It still sucks on the road, so I bought the XO1. My XO
is optimized towards pavement, with 32mm road tires.

Jumping things and _pretty good_ road performance are mutually
exclusive. Jumping things and bearable road performance, OR not
jumping things, but riding dirt trails, and pretty good road
performance are doable. Even a full rigid mountain bike, if you can
still find a decent one, will only be OK on the road, but will not be
all that hot for drops.

If you said "I want to ride trails, do short commutes and the
occasional milk run", a mountain bike would be fine. "All day
touring" is a totally different ball game.
hmmmmmm. i really don't jump. i really will be road riding 99%
of the time. maybe mountain is not the way to go. as spring
approaches, i'll visit the lbs and see what's available.
thanks...thehick

Riding a non-mountain bike on dirt is not bad, evil, dangerous or impossible.
Tires with some tread are pretty much a requirement as is enough room around the
tires that every twig, leaf and glob of mud isn't stuck between the tire and
frame.

Ron

In article ,
frank-in-toronto wrote:

hmmmmmm. i really don't jump. i really will be road riding 99%
of the time. maybe mountain is not the way to go. as spring
approaches, i'll visit the lbs and see what's available.
thanks...thehick

Frank, I second Bonehenge. I built up a cyclocross bike around a Jamis
Nova frame (I'll spare you the component list) and it serves as my
'everything' bike. I commute with it; it has eyelets for fenders and
racks--even fork bosses for low riders; its great for centuries, albeit
heavier than your typical AL or OCLV racer; and it rides well on fire
roads and trails with appropriate rubber on the rims. In short, a great
all-rounder.

Of course, it does NOT handle technical off roading well: the Nova is
not for challenging single track riding.

And, as Ryan has outlined, a 20+ year old road racer will do all a
contemporary cyclocross bike does. It will also accommodate a wide
choice of tires, fenders, racks, etc--and for much less money. But
prior to going this route, experience should have informed you of the
frame size required and honed your skill as a backyard bicycle
mechanic--rare is the garage sale bike that doesn't need an extensive
overhaul or components replaced.

If your bike is to be used predominantly for long day rides then it's
best to avoid suspension (energy sapper) as well as straight handlebars
more choice in hand positions alleviates fatigue). And it can't be
emphasized enough: a correct bike fit is paramount.

IIRC, a LBS "Ideal Bicycle" on Queen Street East near Jones Ave. had
some nice Marin cyclocross models for under 1k.

luke

"frank-in-toronto" wrote in message
...
I'm just beginning to research what bike to pick up for summer use.
I want to road ride a lot, some dirt trails, maybe jump a branch
or two, but nothing extreme. I favour a mountain bike but would
like some pointers on which ones to look at first.

i hope to go for all day rides so I'd like fenders and some
way to attach bags (panniers?) Lights will be necessary
in case i get stuck out too long and have to come back
in the dusk or later (shouldn't happen often but i'd
like to be prepared).

price point is around 1000 canadian dollars.

thanks for any suggestions...thehick.


Everyone else had pretty good ideas, but you also might want to seriously
check out the hybrids and or comfort bikes as well.
The comfort bikes cost from under US $300 to over $1,000 depending on model
and who's selling them.
Hybrids run from US $400 on up. Don't underestimate the comfort bikes
though, they are basically mountain bikes with the handlebars set higher,
and they have both front and rear suspension, and some have sprung seats as
well. Hybrids are more or less (depending on the model and brand) mountain
bikes converted to road bike use. Thus the hybrids typically have
suspension, straight bars and cyclecross like road tires and wheels.
A good hybrid example is the Cannondale Ultra Bad Boy with or without disc
brakes, around US $899 without disc brakes and around $1299 with disc
brakes.
You can also check out the Raleigh comfort bike series, the high end models
with disc brakes are still under US $800. The Raleigh comfort bikes have
fully adjustable stems and if later you want it to be more like a mountain
bike you can swap out the riser bars for a straight bar and adjust the stem
to be lower.
Most of the bike comapiens have comfort bikes now so there are a lot of
choices there too.

Lights should be fairly easy, the rear LED light should be really bright and
seeable for a long way off. The headlight depends on the area you are riding
in, if it is a lighted street area the LED models are more than adequate.
But if you are going to be on or off road in an unlighted area, you would
really want one of the better high quality lights, like those from
NiteRider, so you can see where you are going.