Gipiemme wheel opinions

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
...
If the wheels had been of a triplet design (2 drive for every
non-drive spoke), the tension on both sides would be equal. This is
the same issue that offset rims try to address but only not as
effectively. BRBR

I don't think that the tesnion is equal for a non offset rim and 1/2 the
number
of spokes than the right, regardless of lacing.

Why don't you think so? It's a pretty simple analysis:
Campy 9/10 speed RH (36.8mm non-drive flange offset, 16.8 drive flange
offset, 45mm flange spoke hole diameter) paired to a generic Mavic rim
(600mm ERD)
16 drive spokes
8 non-drive spokes
Drive side spoke tension = 100 kg
Analysis:

Angle from vertical of non drive spoke: 7.64 degrees
Angle from vertical of drive spoke: 3.47 degrees

Total lateral componentof drive spoke tension = 16*sin(3.47)*100 = 97 kg

Since the rim is static, this also equals the total lateral force from the
non-drive spokes. Solving for each non-drive spoke tension (T):

T = 145/(sin(7.64)*12) = 91 kg (VS 100 kg for the drive side).

If you're a die hard "show me" kinda guy, try lacing a 24H rim to a 32H hole
hub to confirm the numbers above. If it's a fairly deep section rim (like
one of your CXP30's) with bladed spokes, I'm confident you'll find this to
be a pretty bulletproof wheel, far more durable than the 36H version and
more aero to boot. It's coming, Peter, believe me. Your customers will
think you're some type of wheel building God (assuming they don't already).

mark My bet is that rear wheels will have twice the number of drive VS
non-drive spokes. Ya still on? BRBR

You bet. This 'concept' has come and gone and come back many times in the
100
years or so of bicycles. many have tried to 'reinvent' the wheel and have
found
it to be not as effective as a well built wheel using standard practices
and
components and builder skill.

If you can show me an example of this I'd like to know. I've been a cycling
enthusiast for nearly 25 years and until recently have never before seen a
rear hub offered for asymmetric spoke patterns (i..e different # of drive VS
non-drive spokes). Good ideas tend to hang around and this is going to be
one of them.

"Mark Atanovich" wrote in message
news:bUffb.45994$vj2.26945@fed1read06...

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
...
mark- For low spoke count wheels:
1. It increases lateral trueness.
2. It makes the wheel more durable. BRBR

How?

1. The lateral componenents of the left and right side spoke tensions
cancel out very close to each other. I just estimated those forces at
less
than 1 pound, so I agree this is insignificant.

Oops, brain fart. For a front wheel, the lateral component will be 14kg
(#30 lb), assuming 100kg spoken tension. This may or may not make the wheel
run significantly more true depending on the rim.

Mark- If you're a die hard "show me" kinda guy, try lacing a 24H rim to a 32H
hole
hub to confirm the numbers above. If it's a fairly deep section rim (like
one of your CXP30's) with bladed spokes, I'm confident you'll find this to
be a pretty bulletproof wheel, far more durable than the 36H version and
more aero to boot. BRBR

CXP-30, all 600 grams of them, are gone.

Think I'll stick to standard wheels, thanks. There is more to wheel strength
than even tension. Using your idea on a 400 gram rim would not be pretty.

Mark I've been a cycling
enthusiast for nearly 25 years and until recently have never before seen a
rear hub offered for asymmetric spoke patterns (i..e different # of drive VS
non-drive spokes). Good ideas tend to hang around and this is going to be
one of them. BRBR

The guy at 'Speed Dream' wheels has been doing this for a while(4-5
years)...nothin new. A 24 spoke wheel, 16 right, 8 left, a standard hub with
unused holes


Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
...
Think I'll stick to standard wheels, thanks. There is more to wheel
strength
than even tension. Using your idea on a 400 gram rim would not be pretty.

First you insist there is no benefit, then you ask why it's more durable,
now you claim there is more to it than even tension (the point was
durability, not strength, BTW). So much for logic.

Mark I've been a cycling
enthusiast for nearly 25 years and until recently have never before seen a
rear hub offered for asymmetric spoke patterns (i..e different # of drive
VS
non-drive spokes). Good ideas tend to hang around and this is going to be
one of them. BRBR

The guy at 'Speed Dream' wheels has been doing this for a while(4-5
years)...nothin new. A 24 spoke wheel, 16 right, 8 left, a standard hub
with
unused holes

I assume then he's had some measure of success with this. Not surprising.

mark- First you insist there is no benefit, BRBR

I don't think there is.

mark- then you ask why it's more durable, BRBR

Rhetorical question

Mark now you claim there is more to it than even tension (the point was
durability, not strength, BTW). So much for logic. BRBR

I think dirability has something to do with strength, don't you? But the
strength and durability of a wheel is a result of more than just even tension,
left and right, a benefit of this triplet spoking, according to you.

I think if it was the revelation in wheelbuilding that everybody 'seems' to be
looking for it would be much more common and we would see many more problems
with wheels with the same number of spokes, left and right. Sorry you had a bad
experience with your wheel and the side loads and it's lack of strength and
durability, but I don't think a new campagnolo wheel with the triplet spacing
will survive any better used as you used the other one...but try it and get
back to me...

mark I assume then he's had some measure of success with this. Not
surprising.
BRBR

I guess, I see one or two of his wheels about every year..doesn't look like the
idea is taking the cycling community by storm tho...the ones I saw needed a lot
of 'work'...


Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"