Lights = manufacturers moving to non-replaceable batteries

On Sun, 14 Feb 2016 22:26:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/14/2016 4:46 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd
far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe
setting than on a steady on setting.

That surprises me. While I don't have a SON hub, I have a Shimano with
about the same number of poles. At even five mile per hour (I just
checked) the flicker is visible,...

According to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold
the flicker fusion threshold varies with the type of lighting. For
movies and film, it's about 16Hz. For a CRT, it's about 75Hz. For
lighting there's no stated limit. The article notes that "The 100-120
Hz flicker produced by magnetic ballasts is associated with headaches
and eyestrain". It's possible that we don't actually see the LED
flicker above the flicker fusion threshold, but are still affected by
a higher frequency flicker.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 1:46:23 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.

It looks like I'll be getting another Cygolite product.

Cheers

Some of you guys are way too intense.
You need to ask questions, not make false accusations which are themselves, libelous.
I learned about the Cygo to KingSword relationship at an Interbike meeting with KingSword people. They also like my "hood scoop" leading upper edge design, and their next series of lights had that shape instead of the previous much rounder frontal profile.

Btw since I'm directly educated by lawyers with first hand knowledge on Made in USA labelling requirements, instead of some of you thinking that something must be true because you read it on the internet,
a Ford Mustang, for example, can say Made in USA, with the later specification on the window sticker, "at least 78% domestic content". There are several ways of calculating domestic content. My Oculus says Made in USA "at least 75% domestic content." Its actually 80% now.

Since some of you preach about replaceable batteries for other brands, check out the cost of a replacement proprietary battery for the Cygos or Serfas.. Cateye Volt is even worse. Versus $8.50 or less for my Barry Beams branded and warranteed 26650, and $5 or less for any old $18650 which you can use in my Oculus.

On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 10:46:23 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.

It looks like I'll be getting another Cygolite product.

Cheers

You must be riding very slow if flickering is a problem with a SON hub dynamo.

Lou

I have both SON and Shimano dynohubs and the SON definitely flickers more when starting off and at slow speed. I was roundly abused over the years for saying so but it was true then and is true now. Check the threads on BUMM lamps.

Andre Jute
When I'm right I'm right

On 15/02/2016 3:12 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 10:46:23 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.

It looks like I'll be getting another Cygolite product.

Cheers

You must be riding very slow if flickering is a problem with a SON hub dynamo.


I remember seeing a train of guys doing some loaded touring around Trois
Rivieres Quebec and in the hills they looked like they had strobes. Not
sure which type of dynamos they had but just noticed them as we passed.
Maybe that's what SRA is saying.

On 2/14/2016 6:48 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 7:20:05 PM UTC-5, Barry Beams wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-8, Gary Young wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 4:46:23 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.


The Fenix BC30 and BC21 use non-proprietary 18650 li-ion cells. I bought the BC30 so that I could use the stash of cells I had accumulated for various headlamps, and I'm very pleased with it. You'll need to buy a separate li-ion charger, but they can be had for $20 or so.

Your discussion shows how tough it is for a new brand to get awareness in the customer's mind, let alone shelf space in the stores.
My Oculus, by Barry beams, features field replaceable batteries, and extra-long burn times with standard size off-the-shelf batteries compared to other lights at the same power levels.
These were two of the mandatory design goals, to take away the battery-phobia that other lights cause for the user. Oculus also comes with an extra battery included, so you're ready to go, right out of the box.

The Oculus, at the same power levels, makes all those other light's you're talking about look light a matchstick compared to the automotive high performance beam shape and even brightness that the Oculus has.

5 to 10 hours burn time on a low or medium setting, giving a beam the outdoes anything the feeble single LED Cygo or anyone else's single standard commuter type light can put out.
The beam is so electrically and optically efficient and glare-free that NASA selected my optics to design the Lunar Resource Prospector Rover with, to find water on the Dark Side of the Moon.
On the Brightest of 5 programmed in intensities, you're putting better, brighter, more glare-free light on the road than the car's driving by, still lasting over an hour guaranteed (actual benchmark test 1:04 to 1:10 typical, 1:02 to 1:13 min/max)

Field replaceable battery design let's you change batteries quickly on the roadside. It comes programmed to even turn the light on when the battery makes contact, so that you don't need to fumble for the power switch after putting the fresh battery in.
The Oculus uses 26650 4.5 amp hour (guaranteed minimum capacity, not some Chinesium fiction) or any 18650 size you want if you're into being super-light weight for a self contained battery superbeam kind of light.

A high power charging circuit is built right into the light, so you can recharge a fully drained battery in only 5 hours. That's 1/3 the time it takes to recharge a Light and Motion Taz, or other competing lights. But those lights have sealed in batteries so when you're out of battery, you're out of luck, and out of light.
My lights are fully made in USA, min 80% domestic content, assembled right here in Mountain View, CA. I assemble most of them myself. Cygo may try to infer made in USA but its made by KingSword in Taiwan, same who make the nearly indentical Serfas lights.

Pls reply privately to arrange a demo of my Oculus lights if you're local in the SF Bay area.

If by Cygo you are referring to Cygolite then you are VERY wrong about the single LED. A number of Cygolites have two or even three LEDS. In addition Cygolite has a patented Crossfire system wherein the beams cross each other.

I'd like you to post POSITIVE proof that Cygolites are NOT made in the United States. Where's your proof that Cygolites are NOT made in the U.S.A.? Without POSITIVE proof of that, your statment is libel. Thus, where's your proof?

Cheers


I called Cygo recently to confirm that although Cygo does
not make every subcomponent in-house, they are indeed all USA.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:12:32 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 10:46:23 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.

It looks like I'll be getting another Cygolite product.

Cheers

You must be riding very slow if flickering is a problem with a SON hub dynamo.

Lou

Why would I buy a hub that when demonstrated flickered a lot at low speed? If I'm going up a steep incline and I'm riding at a slow speed I still, believe it or not, want to see where the heck I'm going and what's on the road ahead of me.

Ditto the above for riding slowly on trails at night.

Cheers

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 8:58:56 AM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
On 15/02/2016 3:12 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 10:46:23 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.

It looks like I'll be getting another Cygolite product.

Cheers

You must be riding very slow if flickering is a problem with a SON hub dynamo.


I remember seeing a train of guys doing some loaded touring around Trois
Rivieres Quebec and in the hills they looked like they had strobes. Not
sure which type of dynamos they had but just noticed them as we passed.
Maybe that's what SRA is saying.

You got it Duane. The point is that not everyone wants to ride at high speeds all the time just to keep their light from flickering. There are many times when it's not possible to ride at high speeds. was surprised at how fast you had to turn that SON hub before the flicker evened out let alone disappeared. It reminded me of those ancient bottle dynamos running against the tire sidewalls but the SON is a heck of a lot more money.



I'd rather have a good battery light that will give me bright light when and where I want/need it.

Cheers

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 9:09:23 AM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/14/2016 6:48 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 7:20:05 PM UTC-5, Barry Beams wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 3:37:28 PM UTC-8, Gary Young wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 4:46:23 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.


The Fenix BC30 and BC21 use non-proprietary 18650 li-ion cells. I bought the BC30 so that I could use the stash of cells I had accumulated for various headlamps, and I'm very pleased with it. You'll need to buy a separate li-ion charger, but they can be had for $20 or so.

Your discussion shows how tough it is for a new brand to get awareness in the customer's mind, let alone shelf space in the stores.
My Oculus, by Barry beams, features field replaceable batteries, and extra-long burn times with standard size off-the-shelf batteries compared to other lights at the same power levels.
These were two of the mandatory design goals, to take away the battery-phobia that other lights cause for the user. Oculus also comes with an extra battery included, so you're ready to go, right out of the box.

The Oculus, at the same power levels, makes all those other light's you're talking about look light a matchstick compared to the automotive high performance beam shape and even brightness that the Oculus has.

5 to 10 hours burn time on a low or medium setting, giving a beam the outdoes anything the feeble single LED Cygo or anyone else's single standard commuter type light can put out.
The beam is so electrically and optically efficient and glare-free that NASA selected my optics to design the Lunar Resource Prospector Rover with, to find water on the Dark Side of the Moon.
On the Brightest of 5 programmed in intensities, you're putting better, brighter, more glare-free light on the road than the car's driving by, still lasting over an hour guaranteed (actual benchmark test 1:04 to 1:10 typical, 1:02 to 1:13 min/max)

Field replaceable battery design let's you change batteries quickly on the roadside. It comes programmed to even turn the light on when the battery makes contact, so that you don't need to fumble for the power switch after putting the fresh battery in.
The Oculus uses 26650 4.5 amp hour (guaranteed minimum capacity, not some Chinesium fiction) or any 18650 size you want if you're into being super-light weight for a self contained battery superbeam kind of light.

A high power charging circuit is built right into the light, so you can recharge a fully drained battery in only 5 hours. That's 1/3 the time it takes to recharge a Light and Motion Taz, or other competing lights. But those lights have sealed in batteries so when you're out of battery, you're out of luck, and out of light.
My lights are fully made in USA, min 80% domestic content, assembled right here in Mountain View, CA. I assemble most of them myself. Cygo may try to infer made in USA but its made by KingSword in Taiwan, same who make the nearly indentical Serfas lights.

Pls reply privately to arrange a demo of my Oculus lights if you're local in the SF Bay area.

If by Cygo you are referring to Cygolite then you are VERY wrong about the single LED. A number of Cygolites have two or even three LEDS. In addition Cygolite has a patented Crossfire system wherein the beams cross each other.

I'd like you to post POSITIVE proof that Cygolites are NOT made in the United States. Where's your proof that Cygolites are NOT made in the U.S.A.? Without POSITIVE proof of that, your statment is libel. Thus, where's your proof?

Cheers


I called Cygo recently to confirm that although Cygo does
not make every subcomponent in-house, they are indeed all USA.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I emailed them and am waiting to hear back.

Cheers

On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:29:36 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, February 15, 2016 at 3:12:32 AM UTC-5, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Sunday, February 14, 2016 at 10:46:23 PM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I've been looking at some lights to supplement my Cygolite Rover II (250 real lumens max) and am noticing something. A lot of manufacturers are moving to non-replaceable batteries in their lights. In a way this is too bad because it means that for long rides of over 2 hours duration you can't carry a spare battery to swap out nor can you use a spare battery when it's really cold out and the internal battery has less capacity. I looked at a SON hub dynamo but at lower speeds it flickerd far too much - in fact it looked more like it was on a strobe setting than on a steady on setting.

It looks like I'll be getting another Cygolite product.

Cheers

You must be riding very slow if flickering is a problem with a SON hub dynamo.

Lou

Why would I buy a hub that when demonstrated flickered a lot at low speed? If I'm going up a steep incline and I'm riding at a slow speed I still, believe it or not, want to see where the heck I'm going and what's on the road ahead of me.

Ditto the above for riding slowly on trails at night.

Cheers

Flicker is gone at speed of 7 km/hr and above. Just a data point. You don't have to buy anything. Don't feel attacked every time someone trying to explains/mentions something. That is a strange habit of you.

Lou