Does anyone know PM-PM-F/R203 adapters

On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 10:39:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 07:51, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 10, 2017 at 4:47:56 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-18 16:41, Joerg wrote:
Attention, a purely technical post :-)

Does anyone know whether these adapters are for going from 160mm
native post mount to 203mm rotors?

https://erpimgs.idealhere.com/ImageF...963c864243.jpg




The bellied version (which I'd need) seems to only be available from
Chinese sellers and they either don't understand English or plain
don't know what they are selling. Or both. For example, when I
asked the either-or question whether the adapter is for 160mm to
203mm or for 180mm to 203mm the answer was "No". Refining the
question in great detail resulted in "It's for 203mm". Needless
to say, asking for dimensions so I can calculate it myself is
generally fruitless as well.


So, I just dunnit. The front and back wheels of the MTB now both
have 8" or 203mm rotors. Shimano SM-RT66 (SLX Deore) for now, long
term I'll be looking for solid rotors.

Other than the usual swap dance of washers for shimming until it
was just right it was a painless switch. Braking feels nice and
sturdy.

Shimano recommends 18 to 35 in-lbs of torque for the rotor bolts.
Seems wimpy and the previous ones sat way tighter, so I gave it a
bit more oomph.

While at it I adjusted out the rattle and play that always develops
in the steerer after a few hundred trail miles. Every time I torque
down those tiny stem bolts at the spec'd 44 in-lbs it feels like
they'll strip the threads out any second.

Shimano has tightening plates on their six-bolt rotors.


All those little things are is a tiny locking lip sticking up for each
screw, pair-wise. That won't hold much. One of the issues with low
torque is the rotor slacking back and forth if you have to hold the bike
from rolling back down a hill, then downhill again, then up, and so on.
Which happens a lot on an MTB. For some reason the manufacturers can't
get the tolerancing in the screws and holes tight enough.


... Avid uses a
higher torque spec. 5nm should be plenty to keep your stem and
headset tight, but probably not in Cameron Park.


It does but only if I smear some grit-laden toothpaste on the fork tube
before sliding on the stem. Not the paste for electric brushing but the
regular paste. What I am saying is that 5nm feels like it's about to
strip the aluminum threads out.

I think I'd buy a torque meter. And use it :-)

Alternately there might be sufficient material to drill and tap bolt
holes out to the next size, i.e., 5mm - 6mm.

Another idea might be to see what the real racing boys are using for
stems and use the same. I doubt that a guy racing for a $750,000 first
prize (The winner of the Munga will take home $750,000, followed by
$100,000 for second, and $50,000 for third place ) plans on having
many problems with the stem on his bike.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2017-11-11 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 10:39:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 07:51, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... Avid uses a
higher torque spec. 5nm should be plenty to keep your stem and
headset tight, but probably not in Cameron Park.


It does but only if I smear some grit-laden toothpaste on the fork tube
before sliding on the stem. Not the paste for electric brushing but the
regular paste. What I am saying is that 5nm feels like it's about to
strip the aluminum threads out.

I think I'd buy a torque meter. And use it :-)


Trying to be a minimalist I have a makeshift one that was ridiculed here
but when compared to pro gear is more accurate than anything from a
hardware sto A digital suitcase scale. I can torque a screw to
precisely 44 in-lbs. Not 42 or 46 but exactly 44. Try that with one of
those ratchet gizmos.

That tool can also accurately weigh bicycles and other unwieldy devices.
It has a sturdy loop with a click lock.


Alternately there might be sufficient material to drill and tap bolt
holes out to the next size, i.e., 5mm - 6mm.


There isn't but worst case I file it flat on the other side and place a
capped steel nut.


Another idea might be to see what the real racing boys are using for
stems and use the same. I doubt that a guy racing for a $750,000 first
prize (The winner of the Munga will take home $750,000, followed by
$100,000 for second, and $50,000 for third place ) plans on having
many problems with the stem on his bike.


I wasn't planning on spending $20k+ on a mountain bike.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 07:38:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 10:39:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 07:51, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... Avid uses a
higher torque spec. 5nm should be plenty to keep your stem and
headset tight, but probably not in Cameron Park.


It does but only if I smear some grit-laden toothpaste on the fork tube
before sliding on the stem. Not the paste for electric brushing but the
regular paste. What I am saying is that 5nm feels like it's about to
strip the aluminum threads out.

I think I'd buy a torque meter. And use it :-)


Trying to be a minimalist I have a makeshift one that was ridiculed here
but when compared to pro gear is more accurate than anything from a
hardware sto A digital suitcase scale. I can torque a screw to
precisely 44 in-lbs. Not 42 or 46 but exactly 44. Try that with one of
those ratchet gizmos.


Yup, you can use a scale and a carefully measured length wrench but it
is hardly necessary as torque limits always seem to be quite liberal.
Shimano specifies 2 - 4 Nm (18 - 36 "lbs) for brake disc attaching
bolts. No need to get right down to the nth degree.

By the way, in instances where torque is really, really, important,
say the bolts that hold a radial engine crankshaft together the usual
method is to measure the stretch of the bolt rather then the force
required to twist the bolt which is subject to all sorts of
variations.

That tool can also accurately weigh bicycles and other unwieldy devices.
It has a sturdy loop with a click lock.


Alternately there might be sufficient material to drill and tap bolt
holes out to the next size, i.e., 5mm - 6mm.


There isn't but worst case I file it flat on the other side and place a
capped steel nut.


Another idea might be to see what the real racing boys are using for
stems and use the same. I doubt that a guy racing for a $750,000 first
prize (The winner of the Munga will take home $750,000, followed by
$100,000 for second, and $50,000 for third place ) plans on having
many problems with the stem on his bike.


I wasn't planning on spending $20k+ on a mountain bike.

I doubt that the stem on a racing MTB bike costs much different then
the stem on a cheap bike.

But aren't you the one that is always talking about safety and
isolated instances where you need a rock to be safe? And now you are
willing to forgo quality steering for just some cheap old crap bike?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2017-11-12 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 07:38:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 10:39:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 07:51, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... Avid uses a
higher torque spec. 5nm should be plenty to keep your stem and
headset tight, but probably not in Cameron Park.


It does but only if I smear some grit-laden toothpaste on the fork tube
before sliding on the stem. Not the paste for electric brushing but the
regular paste. What I am saying is that 5nm feels like it's about to
strip the aluminum threads out.

I think I'd buy a torque meter. And use it :-)


Trying to be a minimalist I have a makeshift one that was ridiculed here
but when compared to pro gear is more accurate than anything from a
hardware sto A digital suitcase scale. I can torque a screw to
precisely 44 in-lbs. Not 42 or 46 but exactly 44. Try that with one of
those ratchet gizmos.


Yup, you can use a scale and a carefully measured length wrench but it
is hardly necessary as torque limits always seem to be quite liberal.
Shimano specifies 2 - 4 Nm (18 - 36 "lbs) for brake disc attaching
bolts. No need to get right down to the nth degree.


I know. Just mentioned it because there are people here who seriously
think the suitcase scale method is inaccurate.

[...]


Another idea might be to see what the real racing boys are using for
stems and use the same. I doubt that a guy racing for a $750,000 first
prize (The winner of the Munga will take home $750,000, followed by
$100,000 for second, and $50,000 for third place ) plans on having
many problems with the stem on his bike.


I wasn't planning on spending $20k+ on a mountain bike.

I doubt that the stem on a racing MTB bike costs much different then
the stem on a cheap bike.


They ride with weight weenie parts, a lot more expensive than regular.
They also ride one race and then the whole bike gets fully serviced. I
ride thousands of miles without having a fully sponsored support team.


But aren't you the one that is always talking about safety and
isolated instances where you need a rock to be safe? And now you are
willing to forgo quality steering for just some cheap old crap bike?


That bike is not a cheap one and the stem is name brand (Oval Concepts).

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 10:17:14 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-12 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 07:38:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 10:39:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 07:51, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... Avid uses a
higher torque spec. 5nm should be plenty to keep your stem and
headset tight, but probably not in Cameron Park.


It does but only if I smear some grit-laden toothpaste on the fork tube
before sliding on the stem. Not the paste for electric brushing but the
regular paste. What I am saying is that 5nm feels like it's about to
strip the aluminum threads out.

I think I'd buy a torque meter. And use it :-)


Trying to be a minimalist I have a makeshift one that was ridiculed here
but when compared to pro gear is more accurate than anything from a
hardware sto A digital suitcase scale. I can torque a screw to
precisely 44 in-lbs. Not 42 or 46 but exactly 44. Try that with one of
those ratchet gizmos.


Yup, you can use a scale and a carefully measured length wrench but it
is hardly necessary as torque limits always seem to be quite liberal.
Shimano specifies 2 - 4 Nm (18 - 36 "lbs) for brake disc attaching
bolts. No need to get right down to the nth degree.


I know. Just mentioned it because there are people here who seriously
think the suitcase scale method is inaccurate.

No, it's just dopey -- it's like using a nail and a hammer to remove a chain rivet . . . oh wait. Never mind.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/13/2017 5:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 10:17:14 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-12 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 07:38:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 10:39:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 07:51, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... Avid uses a
higher torque spec. 5nm should be plenty to keep your stem and
headset tight, but probably not in Cameron Park.


It does but only if I smear some grit-laden toothpaste on the fork tube
before sliding on the stem. Not the paste for electric brushing but the
regular paste. What I am saying is that 5nm feels like it's about to
strip the aluminum threads out.

I think I'd buy a torque meter. And use it :-)


Trying to be a minimalist I have a makeshift one that was ridiculed here
but when compared to pro gear is more accurate than anything from a
hardware sto A digital suitcase scale. I can torque a screw to
precisely 44 in-lbs. Not 42 or 46 but exactly 44. Try that with one of
those ratchet gizmos.


Yup, you can use a scale and a carefully measured length wrench but it
is hardly necessary as torque limits always seem to be quite liberal.
Shimano specifies 2 - 4 Nm (18 - 36 "lbs) for brake disc attaching
bolts. No need to get right down to the nth degree.


I know. Just mentioned it because there are people here who seriously
think the suitcase scale method is inaccurate.

No, it's just dopey -- it's like using a nail and a hammer to remove a chain rivet . . . oh wait. Never mind.

-- Jay Beattie.


eh what do we know? Never broke a front axle. Ever. You?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2017-11-13 15:07, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 10:17:14 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-12 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 07:38:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 10:39:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 07:51, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... Avid uses a higher torque spec. 5nm should be plenty
to keep your stem and headset tight, but probably not in
Cameron Park.


It does but only if I smear some grit-laden toothpaste on
the fork tube before sliding on the stem. Not the paste for
electric brushing but the regular paste. What I am saying
is that 5nm feels like it's about to strip the aluminum
threads out.

I think I'd buy a torque meter. And use it :-)


Trying to be a minimalist I have a makeshift one that was
ridiculed here but when compared to pro gear is more accurate
than anything from a hardware sto A digital suitcase scale.
I can torque a screw to precisely 44 in-lbs. Not 42 or 46 but
exactly 44. Try that with one of those ratchet gizmos.


Yup, you can use a scale and a carefully measured length wrench
but it is hardly necessary as torque limits always seem to be
quite liberal. Shimano specifies 2 - 4 Nm (18 - 36 "lbs) for
brake disc attaching bolts. No need to get right down to the nth
degree.


I know. Just mentioned it because there are people here who
seriously think the suitcase scale method is inaccurate.

No, it's just dopey -- it's like using a nail and a hammer to remove
a chain rivet . . . oh wait. Never mind.


Both methods work fine. Until I got a digital scale as a present I used
a butcher "hook scale" which was just fine. As for the hammer and nail
that is how I opened scores of chains when I had used them up as a
university student. When all you have is a single room of 150sqft or
less and your monthly budget is $300 including rent, utilities, food,
books, beer and all you learn minimalist strategies quickly.

Since about two years I am the proud owner of a chain breaker because it
was part of a PricePoint bike tool kit. I wish they had thrown in a T-25
driver instead because that can't easily be kludged. Do I get my chains
open any faster? Nope.

BTW you also need some rock or a sturdy surface and a steel nut, any old
nut, to lay the chain link onto so the pin flies into that. For that
purpose I used a chunk of railroad flat-bottom rail as an anvil which I
still have.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-11-13 15:18, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/13/2017 5:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 10:17:14 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-12 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 07:38:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 10:39:42 -0800, Joerg

wrote:

On 2017-11-11 07:51, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... Avid uses a
higher torque spec. 5nm should be plenty to keep your stem and
headset tight, but probably not in Cameron Park.


It does but only if I smear some grit-laden toothpaste on the
fork tube
before sliding on the stem. Not the paste for electric brushing
but the
regular paste. What I am saying is that 5nm feels like it's about to
strip the aluminum threads out.

I think I'd buy a torque meter. And use it :-)


Trying to be a minimalist I have a makeshift one that was ridiculed
here
but when compared to pro gear is more accurate than anything from a
hardware sto A digital suitcase scale. I can torque a screw to
precisely 44 in-lbs. Not 42 or 46 but exactly 44. Try that with one of
those ratchet gizmos.


Yup, you can use a scale and a carefully measured length wrench but it
is hardly necessary as torque limits always seem to be quite liberal.
Shimano specifies 2 - 4 Nm (18 - 36 "lbs) for brake disc attaching
bolts. No need to get right down to the nth degree.


I know. Just mentioned it because there are people here who seriously
think the suitcase scale method is inaccurate.

No, it's just dopey -- it's like using a nail and a hammer to remove a
chain rivet . . . oh wait. Never mind.

-- Jay Beattie.


eh what do we know? Never broke a front axle. Ever. You?


My dad topped that. He broke a supposedly sturdy steel frame in half on
a fast ride. Ok, the area had just been heavily bombed during WW-II so
the ride wasn't exactly smooth.

So Andrew, are the axles in the solid-version Shimano HB-TX500 hubs
sturdy in your experience? Then I could buy one and pilfer the axle. In
contrast to the old MTB this one has full suspension (the old one has
none at all). That muffles the blows.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 10:17:12 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-12 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 07:38:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 10:39:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 07:51, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... Avid uses a
higher torque spec. 5nm should be plenty to keep your stem and
headset tight, but probably not in Cameron Park.


It does but only if I smear some grit-laden toothpaste on the fork tube
before sliding on the stem. Not the paste for electric brushing but the
regular paste. What I am saying is that 5nm feels like it's about to
strip the aluminum threads out.

I think I'd buy a torque meter. And use it :-)


Trying to be a minimalist I have a makeshift one that was ridiculed here
but when compared to pro gear is more accurate than anything from a
hardware sto A digital suitcase scale. I can torque a screw to
precisely 44 in-lbs. Not 42 or 46 but exactly 44. Try that with one of
those ratchet gizmos.


Yup, you can use a scale and a carefully measured length wrench but it
is hardly necessary as torque limits always seem to be quite liberal.
Shimano specifies 2 - 4 Nm (18 - 36 "lbs) for brake disc attaching
bolts. No need to get right down to the nth degree.


I know. Just mentioned it because there are people here who seriously
think the suitcase scale method is inaccurate.

[...]

Actually a weight would be the most accurate. At least when I worked
in a shop that also certified torque wrenches they were tested with a
dead weight tester


Another idea might be to see what the real racing boys are using for
stems and use the same. I doubt that a guy racing for a $750,000 first
prize (The winner of the Munga will take home $750,000, followed by
$100,000 for second, and $50,000 for third place ) plans on having
many problems with the stem on his bike.


I wasn't planning on spending $20k+ on a mountain bike.

I doubt that the stem on a racing MTB bike costs much different then
the stem on a cheap bike.


They ride with weight weenie parts, a lot more expensive than regular.
They also ride one race and then the whole bike gets fully serviced. I
ride thousands of miles without having a fully sponsored support team.


But aren't you the one that is always talking about safety and
isolated instances where you need a rock to be safe? And now you are
willing to forgo quality steering for just some cheap old crap bike?


That bike is not a cheap one and the stem is name brand (Oval Concepts).

Ooooh. But Oval are way down at the bottom, of the pile. I see them
offered for sale as cheap as $15 while a proper Ritchey is $130 (in
metal, more in Carbon).

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 15:07:41 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 10:17:14 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-11-12 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 07:38:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 18:13, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 10:39:42 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-11-11 07:51, jbeattie wrote:


[...]

... Avid uses a
higher torque spec. 5nm should be plenty to keep your stem and
headset tight, but probably not in Cameron Park.


It does but only if I smear some grit-laden toothpaste on the fork tube
before sliding on the stem. Not the paste for electric brushing but the
regular paste. What I am saying is that 5nm feels like it's about to
strip the aluminum threads out.

I think I'd buy a torque meter. And use it :-)


Trying to be a minimalist I have a makeshift one that was ridiculed here
but when compared to pro gear is more accurate than anything from a
hardware sto A digital suitcase scale. I can torque a screw to
precisely 44 in-lbs. Not 42 or 46 but exactly 44. Try that with one of
those ratchet gizmos.


Yup, you can use a scale and a carefully measured length wrench but it
is hardly necessary as torque limits always seem to be quite liberal.
Shimano specifies 2 - 4 Nm (18 - 36 "lbs) for brake disc attaching
bolts. No need to get right down to the nth degree.


I know. Just mentioned it because there are people here who seriously
think the suitcase scale method is inaccurate.

No, it's just dopey -- it's like using a nail and a hammer to remove a chain rivet . . . oh wait. Never mind.

-- Jay Beattie.

Well, I've seen a somewhat similar system used to torque 17'
propellers. The wrench was a sort or ring spanner and had about a 10
foot handle on it with stripes painted on it. The prop was held so
that the wrench handle was horizontal and a medium sized mechanic hung
by his hands at a specified stripe and the handle was tapped with a 10
lb. hammer.
--
Cheers,

John B.