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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 22nd 17, 10:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,230
Default Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On 10/22/2017 3:51 PM, James wrote:
On 22/10/17 11:31, Oculus Lights wrote:
Here's my source for Panasonic 18650 LI cells:
https://liionwholesale.com/?refer1=a...RoCFkgQAvD_BwE


Support a good American distributor selling tested and
verified
batteries, at competitive prices even for small
quantities. They
also sell the 6 cell LUC brand charger and 4 bay Opus
analyzer/charger.

These test out in my Opus tester/charger at 3500+mAH in
both charging
and discharging. I test charging at 2A and drain at
1A,the Opus'
limit. Burn time in the light is measured at each step
from 9A max
(in the 3000Extreme) down to 70mA.

My 26650 come in large quantities through a direct rep
from Heter, a
humongous scale better maker in China who makes many cells
for other
big brand name electronic companies, who are considered to
make their
own, but don't. Minimum quantities in the 1000 lot size
for the
measured 5500mAH unbranded ones I get for the Oculus
lights and sell
competitively versus the Chinesium crap. Maybe ~1 in 100
might not
be up to spec, and only two out of 1000 have been DOA.
The blue
Tenergy brand 26650, unchipped, sold in Fry's, with a
black seal
around the + end contact, are likely the same but at Fry's
much
higher retail price, but never know the true capacity without
testing, draining, recharging, repeatedly for at least a
hundred
cycles. Another problem with Chinesium is that they tend
not to last
nearly as many charge cycles as authentic first quality
batteries,
regardless of the capacity when allegedly new. That
versus one of
the Heter's I've been charging and draining almost daily
since
February, that still test charges at 5500mAH.


The battery for my light went flat the other day so I ate a
banana, drank some water, and it was recharged.

(Dynamo users humour)


+1
(fellow meat-power vehicle rider)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Ads
  #12  
Old October 23rd 17, 12:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,602
Default Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 5:06:43 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/22/2017 3:51 PM, James wrote:
On 22/10/17 11:31, Oculus Lights wrote:
Here's my source for Panasonic 18650 LI cells:
https://liionwholesale.com/?refer1=a...RoCFkgQAvD_BwE


Support a good American distributor selling tested and
verified
batteries, at competitive prices even for small
quantities. They
also sell the 6 cell LUC brand charger and 4 bay Opus
analyzer/charger.

These test out in my Opus tester/charger at 3500+mAH in
both charging
and discharging. I test charging at 2A and drain at
1A,the Opus'
limit. Burn time in the light is measured at each step
from 9A max
(in the 3000Extreme) down to 70mA.

My 26650 come in large quantities through a direct rep
from Heter, a
humongous scale better maker in China who makes many cells
for other
big brand name electronic companies, who are considered to
make their
own, but don't. Minimum quantities in the 1000 lot size
for the
measured 5500mAH unbranded ones I get for the Oculus
lights and sell
competitively versus the Chinesium crap. Maybe ~1 in 100
might not
be up to spec, and only two out of 1000 have been DOA.
The blue
Tenergy brand 26650, unchipped, sold in Fry's, with a
black seal
around the + end contact, are likely the same but at Fry's
much
higher retail price, but never know the true capacity without
testing, draining, recharging, repeatedly for at least a
hundred
cycles. Another problem with Chinesium is that they tend
not to last
nearly as many charge cycles as authentic first quality
batteries,
regardless of the capacity when allegedly new. That
versus one of
the Heter's I've been charging and draining almost daily
since
February, that still test charges at 5500mAH.


The battery for my light went flat the other day so I ate a
banana, drank some water, and it was recharged.

(Dynamo users humour)


+1
(fellow meat-power vehicle rider)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Well, I don't know what the problem was with the Lithium battery I had nor did I care once I found out that the NiMh battery worked as well and each charge was a lot longer.

Dynamo hubs are out for me because I use my light on a number of different bicycles depending on what any particular ride is for. It'd cost me afortune to a dynamo hub on all of my bikes.

I made my original post in this thread just to inform people that a NiMh battery can be used instead of a Lithium one as long as the voltages are the same.

Cheers
  #13  
Old October 23rd 17, 12:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Oculus Lights
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 1:07:26 PM UTC-7, Ian Field wrote:
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:40:42 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

A while back I asked about using an external NiMh battery instead of an
external
Lithium Ion battery on a light that came with a Lithium Ion battery. Due
to a
problem with the Lithium Ion battery pack of mine not holding a charge or
for
some other reason battery related for the light suddenly going out I put a
Tamiya connector onto the light's wire and used my NiMh battery. Guess
what?
It works perfectly and my battery run time is a LOT longer now than what
it was.
Seeing as I have a few of these 5000Mah NiMh batteries from my RC boats I
can
now ride VERY FAR at night with no worry about the light going out
suddenly
or dimming drastically at low speeds or when stopped.


My guess(tm) is that there is either something wrong with your LiIon
battery pack, or the LiIon battery pack was assembled using cheap junk
LiIon cells. I've seen both, mostly from 18650 cells. Identifying
counterfeit cells is difficult:
https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/104619270-can-you-identify-the-fake-lg-hg2-18650-battery
I used to weigh the cells and compare them with a known good cell, but
that hasn't worked since the counterfeiters started adding waxes sand
to the cell to increase the weight.


All my 18650s were rescued from discarded laptop packs - if I get any duds,
there's no point complaining to anyone.

The 3W Tesco headlamp uses one, but my biggest application is my e
cigarette. That's been in service well over 5yrs and I've only had to swap
out a couple of battery sets.

The one that came with the Tesco unit is only 1800mAh - I get a lot more
running time from salvaged cells.


Laptop battery packs used to be great sources for core cells. The big laptop battery recall in 07-08 sent case loads of new packs to large companies. Problem with the packs that was causing fires was cheap charging controllers, and poor design that put groups of three cells in parallel without regulating charging between each cell. That resulted in some cells being forced to absorb power beyond safe charging capacity if one cell was substandard or dropped off a tenth of a volt after many charges.
Instructions were given NOT to return old packs, to dispose of locally. That gave me a huge harvest of 2800 Samsungs and Panasonics from Lenovo and Dell packs, for my early lights.
  #14  
Old October 23rd 17, 01:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,657
Default Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On 10/22/2017 5:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/22/2017 3:51 PM, James wrote:
On 22/10/17 11:31, Oculus Lights wrote:
Here's my source for Panasonic 18650 LI cells:
https://liionwholesale.com/?refer1=a...RoCFkgQAvD_BwE



*Support a good American distributor selling tested and
verified
batteries, at competitive prices even for small
quantities.* They
also sell the 6 cell LUC brand charger and 4 bay Opus
analyzer/charger.

These test out in my Opus tester/charger at 3500+mAH in
both charging
and discharging.* I test charging at 2A and drain at
1A,the Opus'
limit.* Burn time in the light is measured at each step
from 9A max
(in the 3000Extreme) down to 70mA.

My 26650 come in large quantities through a direct rep
from Heter, a
humongous scale better maker in China who makes many cells
for other
big brand name electronic companies, who are considered to
make their
own, but don't. Minimum quantities in the 1000 lot size
for the
measured 5500mAH unbranded ones I get for the Oculus
lights and sell
competitively versus the Chinesium crap.* Maybe ~1 in 100
might not
be up to spec, and only two out of 1000 have been DOA.
The blue
Tenergy brand 26650, unchipped, sold in Fry's, with a
black seal
around the + end contact, are likely the same but at Fry's
much
higher retail price, but never know the true capacity without
testing, draining, recharging, repeatedly for at least a
hundred
cycles.* Another problem with Chinesium is that they tend
not to last
nearly as many charge cycles as authentic first quality
batteries,
regardless of the capacity when allegedly new.* That
versus one of
the Heter's I've been charging and draining almost daily
since
February, that still test charges at 5500mAH.


The battery for my light went flat the other day so I ate a
banana, drank some water, and it was recharged.

(Dynamo users humour)


+1
(fellow meat-power vehicle rider)


+2, unless we're counting dynamos instead of riders. I think I'd be
about +5 or +6 then.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #15  
Old October 23rd 17, 01:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,107
Default Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On 10/21/2017 9:52 AM, somebody wrote:

snip

For me a Chinese li-ion cell is good if it measures 3/4 the label
capacity. Resellers will ship good batteries until they have a decent
number of good reviews and them start shipping the crap cells.

So if you buy some measure capacity right away. Document the results
with photos. Then go back to eBay or Aliexpress and go through the
dispute process. Works for me.


Fry's often has these on sale for $4.99
http://www.frys.com/product/7161562 and they are good.
  #16  
Old October 23rd 17, 04:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,655
Default Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 21:07:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

All my 18650s were rescued from discarded laptop packs - if I get any duds,
there's no point complaining to anyone.


I have a small collection of such batteries. The problem is that the
spot welded + terminal is flat and is missing the "button top" used in
most removable 18650 cells. I had to buy a few magnetic "button tops"
which work well enough, but are easily lost or misplaced:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282578704173
My testing, using a West Mountain Radio CBA-II discharge tester,
showed that the cells market 2200 ma-hr delivered 2000 ma-hr at 1.5A.
Good enough.

The 3W Tesco headlamp uses one, but my biggest application is my e
cigarette. That's been in service well over 5yrs and I've only had to swap
out a couple of battery sets.


Between the eCigarettes, eBikes, LED lighting enthusiasts, power
tools, and radio geeks, it's a wonder that one can find 18650 cells.

The one that came with the Tesco unit is only 1800mAh - I get a lot more
running time from salvaged cells.


I recently bought a few of the lowest priced 18650 on eBay. Garbage
in, lumens out. These were suppose to be 5800 and 5000 ma-hr but
delivered 1000 and 880 ma-hr:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/battery-tests/18650.jpg
After about 10 charge/discharge cycles, the 5000 ma-hr cell is showing
signs impending failure.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #17  
Old October 23rd 17, 07:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,674
Default Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On 23/10/17 10:42, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Dynamo hubs are out for me because I use my light on a number of
different bicycles depending on what any particular ride is for. It'd
cost me afortune to a dynamo hub on all of my bikes.


A first world problem of too many bicycles.

--
JS
  #18  
Old October 23rd 17, 03:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,107
Default Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On 10/22/2017 11:19 PM, James wrote:
On 23/10/17 10:42, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Dynamo hubs are out for me because I use my light on a number of
different bicycles depending on what any particular ride is for. It'd
cost me afortune to a dynamo hub on all of my bikes.


A first world problem of too many bicycles.


Whenever I have to replace a wheel on a mid-range bicycle then I will
get a dynamo hub wheel. The cost differential is about $50 for a wheel
with a 3W Shimano or Sanyo dynamo. For a high-end dynamo (SP) you're
looking at another $150, but I have not had any issues with the
lower-end dynamos.

But I have to say, with my Lezyne 1500 lumen light, with internal
batteries and USB rechargeable, the need for a dynamo is greatly
reduced. I bought extra mounts and put them on multiple bicycles. A
dynamo light alone is not sufficient for most urban riding in the U.S..
  #19  
Old October 23rd 17, 03:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,107
Default Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On 10/22/2017 8:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Between the eCigarettes, eBikes, LED lighting enthusiasts, power
tools, and radio geeks, it's a wonder that one can find 18650 cells.


Or a Tesla battery pack. 8,256 18650 cells in one pack.
  #20  
Old October 23rd 17, 04:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,107
Default Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery

On 10/22/2017 8:13 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 22 Oct 2017 21:07:22 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:

All my 18650s were rescued from discarded laptop packs - if I get any duds,
there's no point complaining to anyone.


I have a small collection of such batteries. The problem is that the
spot welded + terminal is flat and is missing the "button top" used in
most removable 18650 cells. I had to buy a few magnetic "button tops"
which work well enough, but are easily lost or misplaced:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282578704173
My testing, using a West Mountain Radio CBA-II discharge tester,
showed that the cells market 2200 ma-hr delivered 2000 ma-hr at 1.5A.
Good enough.

The 3W Tesco headlamp uses one, but my biggest application is my e
cigarette. That's been in service well over 5yrs and I've only had to swap
out a couple of battery sets.


Between the eCigarettes, eBikes, LED lighting enthusiasts, power
tools, and radio geeks, it's a wonder that one can find 18650 cells.

The one that came with the Tesco unit is only 1800mAh - I get a lot more
running time from salvaged cells.


I recently bought a few of the lowest priced 18650 on eBay. Garbage
in, lumens out. These were suppose to be 5800 and 5000 ma-hr but
delivered 1000 and 880 ma-hr:
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/battery-tests/18650.jpg
After about 10 charge/discharge cycles, the 5000 ma-hr cell is showing
signs impending failure.


Oh please, did you really expect 5800 mAH from an 18650? There is no
such thing!

The cheapest way to buy flat top 18650 cells is to buy one of those USB
battery packs. Fry's has a 16,800 mAH model comprised of six 2800mAH
18650 cells for $17. That's $2.83 per cell.

For button-top cells, the source that Barry Beams provided is probably
the best option. I.e. for button-top
https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/products/protected-panasonic-ncr18650b-3400mah-li-ion-18650-button-top-battery?variant=1925834564.
 




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