12-27 vs 12-25

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:11:28 -0800, Nick Burns
wrote:
"David Damerell" wrote in message:
The claim that you need gears as tall as the very tallest he does
is equivalent to the claim that you are as strong as him.

This quote reminds me, I did think of something
I have to say about this.

I _am_ as strong as Lance. I may be stronger, in
this context.

My legs can push 300 pounds up a 2 story ladder.
Can Lance do that? I weigh 210 and sometimes need
to carry a 90-pound bundle of roof shingles up the
ladder.

I can't, however, spin up as fast as him; nor do I
have his endurance. In fact, I do best at low
cadences. I sure wished for a 53x11 a bunch of times
today!

Ever since I started to race over 20 years ago, I can remember all of
these dorks trying to tell other people what gears they need.

Not just gears, but everything. It's one thing to
say "This works for me"; it's a whole other thing
to say "This won't work for anybody" or "Everybody
needs this".

Some things never change.

Indeed.

--
Rick Onanian

Top Sirloin wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 16:49:57 -0400, Rick Onanian
wrote:

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 19:11:28 -0800, Nick Burns
wrote:
"David Damerell" wrote in message:
The claim that you need gears as tall as the very tallest he does
is equivalent to the claim that you are as strong as him.

This quote reminds me, I did think of something
I have to say about this.

I _am_ as strong as Lance. I may be stronger, in
this context.

My legs can push 300 pounds up a 2 story ladder.
Can Lance do that? I weigh 210 and sometimes need
to carry a 90-pound bundle of roof shingles up the
ladder.

That's less than 50% of your bodyweight. I'll bet dollars to
doughnuts Lance can deep squat his bodyweight for 10 reps.

According to Lance himself in CC's book "The Lance Armstrong Performance
program" pp 111-112. This is what he does in late winter after three months
of training in the gym.
Leg press 400 pounds
Hamstring curl 80 pounds
Leg extension 120 pounds
Bicep curl 50 pounds
Abdominal crunches 200 pounds per set
Bench press 125 pounds

8 to 10 reps per set with five to seven sets per workout.
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 09:47:37 -0400, Top Sirloin
wrote:
My legs can push 300 pounds up a 2 story ladder.
Can Lance do that? I weigh 210 and sometimes need
to carry a 90-pound bundle of roof shingles up the
ladder.

That's less than 50% of your bodyweight. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts
Lance can deep squat his bodyweight for 10 reps.

What does Lance deep squatting his bodyweight
have to do with his legs pushing 300 pounds
up a 2 story ladder?

Deep squat bears little resemblance to ladder
climbing. Ladders use only one leg at a time.
If you fail on the ladder, you fall and die.
The ladder is continuous and unstable.

I would not be suprised to find that climbing
a ladder is similar to pedalling. I feel it in
many of the same muscles. Further, the motion
is similar to pedalling; foot up, forward, push
down, pull out, up again; other foot opposite.

I weigh 15 lbs more than you and can easily deep squat my bodyweight for
reps,
but it only counts for cycling performance if you're talking about an
all-out
20-30 second effort (where you also don't care about blowing up
afterwards).

You are probably a candidate for a 53x11, then,
even if you ride in a completely flat area.

What makes you think that Lance can carry a
total of his bodyweight + load equalling 300
pounds, up a 2 story ladder? AFAIK, he only
needs to push his own bodyweight + bicycle up
hills, and has been known to spin up fast
cadences. That sounds like I need a taller
gear than him.

Note: I am NOT discounting Lance's strength,
ability, or endurance at all. I could never
compete with him. Rather, I'm refuting
somebody's assertion that it is ridiculous to
say that I need a 53x11, due to the faulty
logic that Lance uses it and I can't because
I can't possibly be as strong as him. Strong,
in this context, would seem to mean the amount
of torque available to turn the cranks.

Even if he has stronger arms than me and can
pull on the handlebars harder, my significant
extra weight allows me to put more of my
muscles' available power into the pedals, and
also gives me an inertial advantage while
going downhill that makes it quite reasonable
to think that I could go faster with gears as
tall as his or even taller.

I don't KNOW that all the numbers are correct,
but I _do_ know that I could go faster with a
53x11 than I do now with a slightly lower gear,
and if that means I'm as strong or stronger
than Lance, so be it.

--
Rick Onanian

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:04:42 GMT, Per Elmsäter
wrote:
According to Lance himself in CC's book "The Lance Armstrong Performance
program" pp 111-112. This is what he does in late winter after three
months
of training in the gym.
Leg press 400 pounds

If a leg press is done with one leg (I don't
know gym terminology, sorry), and his numbers
are accurate, then he may well be stronger
than I am. I know I could do 300, evidenced
by the loaded ladder-climbing I mentioned,
but 400 would definately be pushing it.

So, even if we've proved that I'm not as strong
as Lance (entirely possible), I'm certainly
heavier and have more available to put into the
pedals without tearing the handlebar off the
stem, as well as more gravity pulling me downhill.

--
Perre
--
Rick Onanian

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 19:33:57 -0400, Rick Onanian wrote:

What does Lance deep squatting his bodyweight
have to do with his legs pushing 300 pounds
up a 2 story ladder?

Uh, leg strength? :-)

Deep squat bears little resemblance to ladder
climbing. Ladders use only one leg at a time.
If you fail on the ladder, you fall and die.
The ladder is continuous and unstable.

I would not be suprised to find that climbing
a ladder is similar to pedalling. I feel it in
many of the same muscles. Further, the motion
is similar to pedalling; foot up, forward, push
down, pull out, up again; other foot opposite.

Neither one is really any closer than the other to the action of pedaling IMHO,
but squatting, even though it does have a stability component, is a truer test
of leg strength.

You are probably a candidate for a 53x11, then,
even if you ride in a completely flat area.

I could've used one last night trying to chase down the group in front of me,
but I also ended up using my 25 after I blew up and had to crawl home. :-)

I don't KNOW that all the numbers are correct,
but I _do_ know that I could go faster with a
53x11 than I do now with a slightly lower gear,
and if that means I'm as strong or stronger
than Lance, so be it.

Gearing has little to do with strength. I'll bet on a usual ride for me I exert
a lot more force going uphill in a 39x19 than downhill in a 53x12. The exception
would be a group ride or race where I _have_ to be fast downhill to catch
someone.


--
Scott Johnson
"Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are
why they only open the top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:41:37 -0400, Top Sirloin
wrote:
Gearing has little to do with strength. I'll bet on a usual ride for me I

Maybe, but I was replying to somebody's assertion
that to say that I can use a 53x11 is equivelant
to saying that I am as strong as Lance. I then made
the case that it's not out of the realm of possibility
that I am as "strong" as Lance, due to the fact that
_each_ of my legs can repeatedly push 300 pounds one
foot straight up.

a lot more force going uphill in a 39x19 than downhill in a 53x12. The
exception
would be a group ride or race where I _have_ to be fast downhill to catch
someone.

I've never gone on a real group ride; I mostly ride
alone. That said, I'm only interested in catching fun.
I can catch more fun with a wider range of gears,
including a 53x11.

--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian wrote:
Maybe, but I was replying to somebody's assertion
that to say that I can use a 53x11 is equivelant
to saying that I am as strong as Lance.

Gosh, I wonder if "strong" meant "as strong a cyclist" or "able to leg
press as much"? Now, what would the context suggest?
--
David Damerell Kill the tomato!

On 21 Aug 2003 13:51:34 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
wrote:
Rick Onanian wrote:
Maybe, but I was replying to somebody's assertion
that to say that I can use a 53x11 is equivelant
to saying that I am as strong as Lance.

Gosh, I wonder if "strong" meant "as strong a cyclist" or "able to leg
press as much"? Now, what would the context suggest?

In that context I took it to mean "able to
put as much torque into the pedals", which
is NOT the same as "as strong a cyclist".

According to the numbers quoted in this
thread, I'm not entirely confident that I
could leg press as much.

However, if we take as true that being
able to get some advantage from a 53x11
means I am as strong as Lance, then you
trust me that I could get some advantage
from a 53x11, it follows that I am, in
fact, as strong as Lance.

I don't think his body can do some of the
heavy ladder climbing that mine can, and
mine certainly can't do anywhere near the
heavy uphill cycling; so I may have to
shift out of the 53x11 when the downhill
ends.

--
Rick Onanian