WHy no red tires on cars - only antique bikes?*

Long ago, the minds of the day determined that red rubber does not work
on tires if one is looking for performance or longer wear. It is for
this reason that we do see anything but black on modern day car tires.
Does anyone know the exact reasoning for this?

I have heard that carbon black plays some part in this, but what and how?


Perfect love drives out fear - John 4:18

Martin Krieg "Awake Again" Author
2009 w/"How America Can Bike & Grow Rich"
http://www.bikeroute.com/HBGR
'79 & '86 TransAmerica Bike Rides
Coma, Paralysis, Clinical Death Survivor
NBG Founding Director, HiWheel Cyclist

"Martin Krieg" wrote: I have heard that carbon black plays some part in
this, but what and how?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You are correct. Carbon black prevents ultraviolet light from penetrating
the rubber. People who must park for long periods in sunlight sometimes
seek additional protection by covering their tires with canvas or cardboard.

Carbon black probably also plays a role in getting good wear properties in
the rubber. That would explain why racing tires are black, even though they
don't last long enough to suffer sun damage.

THX for this Leo!! Does anyone if it is the carbon black that makes
black tires last longer and have better road adhesion properties? And
why this is so?

THX 4 all of U!

In article
,
"Leo Lichtman" wrote:

"Martin Krieg" wrote: I have heard that carbon black plays some part in
this, but what and how?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You are correct. Carbon black prevents ultraviolet light from penetrating
the rubber. People who must park for long periods in sunlight sometimes
seek additional protection by covering their tires with canvas or cardboard.

Carbon black probably also plays a role in getting good wear properties in
the rubber. That would explain why racing tires are black, even though they
don't last long enough to suffer sun damage.

On Feb 5, 11:19 am, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:
"Martin Krieg" wrote: I have heard that carbon black plays some part in

this, but what and how?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You are correct. Carbon black prevents ultraviolet light from penetrating
the rubber. People who must park for long periods in sunlight sometimes
seek additional protection by covering their tires with canvas or cardboard.

uh, yeah... carbon black makes the rubber wear longer. I suspect that
somewhere along the line someone is pulling your leg about the
ultraviolet light tho, just a hunch.

Don't take my word for it though, google vulcanization and form yer
own opinions.

From http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/c...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

Polyisoprene was vulcanized with the tetramethylthiuram disulfide/
sulfur/ZnO system in the presence and absence of N330 carbon black.
Crosslinking was carried out in a DSC at a programmed heating rate,
the reaction stopped at points along the thermal curve, and the system
analyzed. Residual curatives and reaction intermediates were
determined by HPLC and crosslink densities by swelling in benzene.
Combinations of the powdered curatives were also heated with and
without carbon black and analyzed. It is shown that the step in the
vulcanization sequence, influenced by carbon black, is the formation
of tetramethylthiuram polysulfides that act as the active sulfurating
agent in vulcanization. Carbon black catalyzes their formation, and to
a lesser extent, the formation of accelerator terminated polysulfidic
pendent groups on the chain. © 1995 John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

Martin Krieg wrote in news:NBG-B1AA92.07300105022008
@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net:
Long ago, the minds of the day determined that red rubber does not work
on tires if one is looking for performance or longer wear. It is for
this reason that we do see anything but black on modern day car tires.
Does anyone know the exact reasoning for this?

Didn't tire companies start selling colored car tires a few years ago, but
then police departments asked them to stop because certain people were using
them to lay down gang colored skid marks all over town? True story.

"sally" wrote in message
...

Didn't tire companies start selling colored car tires a few years ago, but
then police departments asked them to stop because certain people were
using
them to lay down gang colored skid marks all over town? True story.

Sorry, but I doubt that is indeed a "true story." I haven't seen one car in
Dallas with tires colored other than black. Never. Period. Are you trying to
start your own urban legend?

On Feb 5, 10:30*am, Martin Krieg wrote:
Long ago, the minds of the day determined that red rubber does not work
on tires if one is looking for performance or longer wear. It is for
this reason that we do see anything but black on modern day car tires.
Does anyone know the exact reasoning for this?

I have heard that carbon black plays some part in this, but what and how?


Sidebar qustion: What makes red rubber red, and for what reason?

On Feb 6, 3:14 pm, Brian Huntley wrote:
On Feb 5, 10:30 am, Martin Krieg wrote:

Long ago, the minds of the day determined that red rubber does not work
on tires if one is looking for performance or longer wear. It is for
this reason that we do see anything but black on modern day car tires.
Does anyone know the exact reasoning for this?

I have heard that carbon black plays some part in this, but what and how?

Sidebar qustion: What makes red rubber red, and for what reason?

yeah, I suspect that the red, green, yellow, blue and other tires of
color have no less carbon black than tires with a black appearance and
the visual effect is obtained through the addition rather than the
omission of various stuffs during the vulcanization process.

It don't take long for auto tires to get nar-sty looking... I suspect
that no legislation is required to prevent peoples from wanting their
styling spinners to be connected to some baby blue tires with road
grime all over them... like why has the whitewall, gotten so much
skinnier and pretty much gone the way of spats? My take on the
demographics of them bicyclists with those purtee tires is that they
only ride 'em on sunny days and thereby avoid a lot of the icky stuff
that is frequently found on the public right of way, kinda like the
motorists with those god-father whitewalls aren't driving that car
back & forth on the daily grind. Heck, I got different bikes for
different conditions and all of 'em wear ordinary shoes - them fancy
tire folks are certainly better equipped than I, so surely they must
have bad weather rides too.

And then there is brake dust, when was the last time you saw a HPV
with its rims accented with rusty brake dust? Bikes just look cooler
than cars, cool enough to carry off the colored tire thing.

In short (woops, too late now) if there was a margin in it they would
be on the market... it ain't a technical reason that keeps red cars
tires off the road. I can't imagine that it's the police either. I
think in this rare instance the bounds of good taste prevail.

Dear Martin,

The best rubber for early bicycles (highwheelers) was considered to be
Para rubber (from the Para rubber-tree region of Brazil, as opposed to
African and other sources).

The red color came from the compounds (kmostly antimony) that made the
natural rubber harder and stronger and longer-wearing, but not so
stretchy.

Gray rubber tires were considered inferior, even though they might use
the same Para rubber. Gray rubber was stretchy and wore quickly and
failed more easily because it was mostly natural rubber, plus the
minimum amount of sulphur needed for vulcanizing. Gray rubber simply
lacked the compounds that turned natural Para rubber into better
stuff.

This passage about the gray and red rubber used in inner tubes
explains the basic idea:

"To effect proper vulcanization, only about three per cent of sulphur
is needed. Tubes which are made of red rubber, while stronger, are not
so elastic as as those made of gray rubber. The red color is given to
rubber chiefly by the use of metallic oxids, chiefly antimony. When so
treated, the elongation is about five times its length when not more
than fifty per cent of oxids are used. Gray rubber, which is free from
adulteration, except the necessary sulphur, should stretch to seven
times its length."

http://books.google.com/books?id=HKI...r#PPA1658, M1
or http://tinyurl.com/32q5cr

Canandian posters may have limited or no access to Google books.

Elsewhere, the book gives examples of gray stretchy inner tubes being
made of 94% natural Para rubber and 6% sulphur (hardly any compounds),
while red inner tubes, longer lasting, were only about 75% rubber and
25% antimony, magnesia, and so on (four times as much non-rubber
compound).

Tires were harder and used even less rubber than inner tubes, but the
same principles held. Red rubber meant lots of antimony and other
stuff to improve the soft, too-stretchy natural rubber, while gray
rubber meant the bare minimum of improving chemicals.

Improvements in technology led to the use of carbon black to make the
natural rubber last longer and still provide good traction, followed
by the rise of synthetic rubber.

Here's an example of an 1887 highwheeler ad that boasts of tires made
of the "very best quality red Para rubber", as opposed to the inferior
gray stuff:
http://www.tallbike.com/tall/87rudge.html

Note that the huge online book about tires is discussing early car
tires and inner tubes.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

THX for taking the time to do research for this!! I am going to post it
at the Wheelmen site http://thewheelmen.org/forum/default.asp where I
have also posed this question.

THX 4 U!

In article
,
wrote:

Dear Martin,

The best rubber for early bicycles (highwheelers) was considered to be
Para rubber (from the Para rubber-tree region of Brazil, as opposed to
African and other sources).

The red color came from the compounds (kmostly antimony) that made the
natural rubber harder and stronger and longer-wearing, but not so
stretchy.

Gray rubber tires were considered inferior, even though they might use
the same Para rubber. Gray rubber was stretchy and wore quickly and
failed more easily because it was mostly natural rubber, plus the
minimum amount of sulphur needed for vulcanizing. Gray rubber simply
lacked the compounds that turned natural Para rubber into better
stuff.

This passage about the gray and red rubber used in inner tubes
explains the basic idea:

"To effect proper vulcanization, only about three per cent of sulphur
is needed. Tubes which are made of red rubber, while stronger, are not
so elastic as as those made of gray rubber. The red color is given to
rubber chiefly by the use of metallic oxids, chiefly antimony. When so
treated, the elongation is about five times its length when not more
than fifty per cent of oxids are used. Gray rubber, which is free from
adulteration, except the necessary sulphur, should stretch to seven
times its length."

http://books.google.com/books?id=HKI...r#PPA1658, M1
or http://tinyurl.com/32q5cr

Canandian posters may have limited or no access to Google books.

Elsewhere, the book gives examples of gray stretchy inner tubes being
made of 94% natural Para rubber and 6% sulphur (hardly any compounds),
while red inner tubes, longer lasting, were only about 75% rubber and
25% antimony, magnesia, and so on (four times as much non-rubber
compound).

Tires were harder and used even less rubber than inner tubes, but the
same principles held. Red rubber meant lots of antimony and other
stuff to improve the soft, too-stretchy natural rubber, while gray
rubber meant the bare minimum of improving chemicals.

Improvements in technology led to the use of carbon black to make the
natural rubber last longer and still provide good traction, followed
by the rise of synthetic rubber.

Here's an example of an 1887 highwheeler ad that boasts of tires made
of the "very best quality red Para rubber", as opposed to the inferior
gray stuff:
http://www.tallbike.com/tall/87rudge.html

Note that the huge online book about tires is discussing early car
tires and inner tubes.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel