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Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 19th 14, 03:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins

For those who ca http://www.bicycleretailer.com/produ...n#.U_NZEfldXSg

The PDX bike is pretty straight-forward. We lost to Seattle (sniff, sniff): http://www.opb.org/news/blog/newsblo...n-competition/

http://oregonmanifest.com/and-the-winner-isdenny/

The Seattle bike clearly gets the nod for bells and whistles. I could have used the electric assist last night for the commute/drag race home over the hills.

-- Jay Beattie.
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  #2  
Old August 19th 14, 04:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins

On 8/19/2014 10:16 AM, jbeattie wrote:
For those who ca http://www.bicycleretailer.com/produ...n#.U_NZEfldXSg

The PDX bike is pretty straight-forward. We lost to Seattle (sniff, sniff): http://www.opb.org/news/blog/newsblo...n-competition/

http://oregonmanifest.com/and-the-winner-isdenny/

The Seattle bike clearly gets the nod for bells and whistles. I could have used the electric assist last night for the commute/drag race home over the hills.

-- Jay Beattie.


Those contests seem pretty challenging. At this point in history,
significantly improving the bicycle is a lot like trying to
significantly improve the pocketknife.

Leatherman and Wenger improved the pocketknife by attaching lots of
built-in stuff you'd otherwise carry separately if you chose to -
pliers, scissors, toothpick, screwdriver etc.

These guys seem to be doing the same, attaching built-in locks, racks,
lights, fenders (or water scrapers? What's with that??). Or at least
providing easy attachments for their proprietary accessories. Not a bad
idea if the built-in stuff works well, I guess; but a bit risky for the
consumer, who has to hope proprietary stuff will remain available.

I'm a bit skeptical of the trendy electronics, though. My bikes last
for decades. My electronic stuff is outmoded in two years. What
happens when Micros**t no longer supplies updates for my bike? Will
hackers force me to ride to Chinatown, whether I want to or not?

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #3  
Old August 19th 14, 05:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:30:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I'm a bit skeptical of the trendy electronics, though. My bikes last
for decades. My electronic stuff is outmoded in two years. What
happens when Micros**t no longer supplies updates for my bike?


Then you install an Open Source operating system and application.
http://tuxmobil.org/linux_and_bicycles.html

Will
hackers force me to ride to Chinatown, whether I want to or not?


No. They'll improve on it, adding more features and functions than
you can possibly need or want. They'll also add to the complexity
sufficiently to keep consultants like me in business. However, you do
have a point. I dread to think what might happen if your bicycle
computer and navigation system is infected with malware. I don't
think it will be much different from the typical desktop malware,
where you bicycle computer will display advertising spam instead of
distance, speed, maps, etc. However, a sufficiently ambitious hacker
could write a ransomware type application, where the software makes
your bicycle drag an anchor unless you send money to some Russian
money laundry account. That would be a serious problem.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #4  
Old August 19th 14, 10:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Darrin Doc O'Leary
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Posts: 7
Default Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins

For your reference, records indicate that
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Those contests seem pretty challenging. At this point in history,
significantly improving the bicycle is a lot like trying to
significantly improve the pocketknife.


I think it’s more that the obvious things that actually *will* improve a
bike are just not cheap enough (yet) to find a mass market, so we get these
sorts of junky “kitchen-sink” contest where designers try to throw in all
sorts of cheap gimmicks, and they *still* end up driving the price for a
$500 bike up to $3000.

I'm a bit skeptical of the trendy electronics, though.


Electric systems on bikes will always be half-assed until the manufacturers
get together and bless some kind of standard. Imagine how annoying it
would be if car makers all felt it was unnecessary to adopt the 12V
standard; that’s where we sit today with bikes. I care less about the
particular electronic gizmos that get hooked into the system than the fact
that no common system exists. Nor does it look like anyone is adopting an
existing standard that might make sense on a bike (e.g., USB PD).

But instead, yay, we get another silly contest to create expensive,
customized frames and accessories. It should be embarrassing to everyone
involved.

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly


  #5  
Old August 20th 14, 01:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:16:16 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
For those who ca http://www.bicycleretailer.com/produ...n#.U_NZEfldXSg



The PDX bike is pretty straight-forward. We lost to Seattle (sniff, sniff): http://www.opb.org/news/blog/newsblo...n-competition/



http://oregonmanifest.com/and-the-winner-isdenny/



The Seattle bike clearly gets the nod for bells and whistles. I could have used the electric assist last night for the commute/drag race home over the hills.



-- Jay Beattie.


DOADOADOADOADOA

http://blog.wiggle.com/2014/03/11/re...ambium-saddle/
  #6  
Old August 20th 14, 01:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 6,374
Default Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins

take one cup super components, add imbeciles...

yack

no contest

we see a lotta weird **** come down in NEW DESIGNS but these are the pits.

deport
  #7  
Old August 20th 14, 01:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:29:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
take one cup super components, add imbeciles...



yack



no contest



we see a lotta weird **** come down in NEW DESIGNS but these are the pits.



deport


ooooooooooooooooo-

HOLY SCHWINE...

for complex relief ehre's a 3D plot on Iceland's new killer volcano threat

note magma movement as reported

http://baering.github.io/
  #8  
Old August 20th 14, 03:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:40:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:29:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:

take one cup super components, add imbeciles...








yack








no contest








we see a lotta weird **** come down in NEW DESIGNS but these are the pits.








deport




ooooooooooooooooo-



HOLY SCHWINE...



for complex relief ehre's a 3D plot on Iceland's new killer volcano threat



note magma movement as reported



http://baering.github.io/


...........

not to change the subject on FWD and evil handling but


http://goo.gl/e6EcY1
  #9  
Old August 20th 14, 06:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 11:30:26 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/19/2014 10:16 AM, jbeattie wrote:

For those who ca http://www.bicycleretailer.com/produ...n#.U_NZEfldXSg




The PDX bike is pretty straight-forward. We lost to Seattle (sniff, sniff): http://www.opb.org/news/blog/newsblo...n-competition/




http://oregonmanifest.com/and-the-winner-isdenny/




The Seattle bike clearly gets the nod for bells and whistles. I could have used the electric assist last night for the commute/drag race home over the hills.




-- Jay Beattie.






Those contests seem pretty challenging. At this point in history,

significantly improving the bicycle is a lot like trying to

significantly improve the pocketknife.



Leatherman and Wenger improved the pocketknife by attaching lots of

built-in stuff you'd otherwise carry separately if you chose to -

pliers, scissors, toothpick, screwdriver etc.



These guys seem to be doing the same, attaching built-in locks, racks,

lights, fenders (or water scrapers? What's with that??). Or at least

providing easy attachments for their proprietary accessories. Not a bad

idea if the built-in stuff works well, I guess; but a bit risky for the

consumer, who has to hope proprietary stuff will remain available.



I'm a bit skeptical of the trendy electronics, though. My bikes last

for decades. My electronic stuff is outmoded in two years. What

happens when Micros**t no longer supplies updates for my bike? Will

hackers force me to ride to Chinatown, whether I want to or not?



--

- Frank Krygowski


0


right. chaining buyers to proprietary products with short design lives and worser cementing the stuff eg that 'headlamp' into an individual choice bar...well you see where the contest pointed...everyman's ride stage 3...

a few minutes ago we were entranched with TdF equipment then TOURING and here's an everyman's ride contest. everyman in a 426 Coronet Hemi with stock car suspension. isnot this what 'everyman' rides ?

or is the west coazee gonna sellus on a new all metal Ford Falcon Six ? ora Chevy !!

ugly suckers but you know beauty is in the Mustang


excuse Ima gonna polish the R5
  #10  
Old August 20th 14, 11:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Bicycle Design Competition Concludes: Seattle Wins

On Tue, 19 Aug 2014 11:30:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Continuation...

Those contests seem pretty challenging. At this point in history,
significantly improving the bicycle is a lot like trying to
significantly improve the pocketknife.


I presume you've been ignoring my random postings of "concept" bicycle
designs. Like most design concepts, they are futuristic, impractical,
weird looking, unbuildable, and unsellable. What I suspect you're
missing is that they don't try to generally improve the bicycle. I
don't think that can be done without a major change in materials. What
they do is trade improvements in one area, for a determent in others.
For example, a concept bicycle might remove the hub and spokes from
the wheels, in trade for some added weight and loss of rigidity.
Everything is a tradeoff and nothing is idea for everyone. For
example, I want a comfortable bicycle, while others might want a safe
bicycle, faster bicycle, more rugged bicycle, folding bicycle,
underwater bicycle, etc. To make each of these, one has to compromise
somewhere. If you're unwilling to compromise one thing in order to
get another, then such a bicycle is not for you.

Leatherman and Wenger improved the pocketknife by attaching lots of
built-in stuff you'd otherwise carry separately if you chose to -
pliers, scissors, toothpick, screwdriver etc.


Multiplex knives have been around for a long time. I believe one was
mentioned in one of the Sherlock Holmes tales. When Tim Leatherman
initially tried to sell his knives, nobody wanted to carry them. The
knife companies thought it was a tool. The tool companies thought it
was a knife:
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/leatherman-tool-group-inc-history/
The first dealer (Cabella) to carry it required him to cut the
wholesale price in half. Fortunately, it was a success and the rest
is history.

Such misunderstandings in defining a product also appear in the
bicycle market. The first mountain bikes were Schwinn cruisers
modified for downhill only use. None of the big manufacturers
initially wanted to manufacturer them, so the market was left to a
bunch of small time builders. When they were later bought out by the
large manufacturers, mountain bikes magically became mainstream.

If someone arrives with an inflatable electric bicycle, nobody would
be initially interested. Is it a toy, folder, throw-away, or what?
Without a defined market, it's going to flounder. Yet, when some
football hero rides into the stadium on one, and proclaims in the
press that his car broke down and this is his "spare tire", the market
will be established. Such a bicycle would certainly be inferior to a
conventional bicycle in all aspects except one. It folds easily into
a car trunk.

These guys seem to be doing the same, attaching built-in locks, racks,
lights, fenders (or water scrapers? What's with that??). Or at least
providing easy attachments for their proprietary accessories. Not a bad
idea if the built-in stuff works well, I guess; but a bit risky for the
consumer, who has to hope proprietary stuff will remain available.


Yeah, that's a potential problem. Whether it's worth solving is
debatable. You could assemble a standards organization to establish a
mounting hardware standard, that would fit any bicycle bolt on
accessory. That should promote interoperability and produce some
really strange looking bicycles.

I'm a bit skeptical of the trendy electronics, though. My bikes last
for decades.


If it weren't for the obvious product liability implications, I'm sure
the bicycle vendors would be more than happy to reduce the useful life
of the bicycle through incompatibility innovations and wear
enhancement. I'm rather surprised that the bicycle industry hasn't
followed that of the automotive industry, which has the same problem.
They can't really build a vehicle that falls apart too quickly as that
would be unsafe. So, they concentrate on the accessories and cosmetic
components. Having the upholstery fall apart is a major reason to buy
a new vehicle. I guess having the paint peel off, components corrode,
plastic parts crumble, and rubber parts turn to smelly goo, would
suffice for reducing the life of a bicycle.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
 




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