Steeling another Ride

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 6:17:05 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 9:25:17 PM UTC+1, Lou Holtman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/26/2016 2:58 PM, wrote:
Lost track of time yesterday morning and hopped on the bike at 8:15
instead of 7:45. Rode fast but still missed the group. Now I normally
know where they're going since they are as predictable as sunrise. But
even going fast I didn't catch them at the top of the hill where they
would have normally waited at least twice for slower set.

On the way down a drop I got hit by a strong side wind. I braced for the
effect and ,,,,,, nothing. I don't know if this Basso Loto has more
directional stability or if I'm simply more relaxed on the bike because
it rides so much better than a stiff riding C40. On the C40 a gust like
that would have pushed me clear across the road.

I rode through Pleasanton and they weren't there. I continued on since I
knew that there was a cafe in Sunol that they could stop at. There was
an awful lot of traffic on the side road and I decided that that *)( )
Goggle Maps was directing people onto the side road because of traffic
jams ahead. There sure weren't any on the adjacent freeway but more and
more traffic was buzzing by me at increasingly unsafe speeds. Coming
around a turn and starting uphill a mile from the stop sign at Niles
Canyon the traffic was stopped. All of those cars that had been driving
by WAY too close were stopped and although many of them had pulled into
the side trying to block me I could get around them. Every car that had
passed me in the last 4 miles was stopped and I passed them all.

Getting up to the stop sign it's a three way stop with traffic in all
directions so I turned right and accelerated up to 22 across the narrow
bridge and pulled into Sunol. Riding into town all of the businesses
were boarded over. This is Governor Moonbeam Brown's thriving economy.
By this time I had been riding pretty much flat out to catch the group
and they weren't here so they must have taken another route. Very unlike them.

But I was worn down so I had to ride slow back the 10 miles to the climb
back over the hill and into Castro Valley.

Oddly enough again the steel bike was showing it's merits. Although my
legs were tired from pushing, my back, my shoulders, my neck and my tush
were not hurting as they ALWAYS would be on the C40.

As I was riding around the turns I could accelerate on the Basso which I
could not do on the C40 because it was so rigid that it kept the wheels
off the ground a lot.

I hit the climb and I seemed to be climbing a lot faster than I did on
the lighter carbon bikes. Maybe this was just my screwed up memory. But
there was a heck of a headwind and I was still going up at 7 to 11 mph
on a 5% climb when that would normally be closer to 6 according to my
memory. As I got to the top my butt was hurting some. But as I cleared
the top and started down this disappeared almost instantly which it never did before.

The Basso is 63 cm C-T and the C40 Large is a 59 C-T of toptube. But the
measurements between handbars, saddle center and pedals is the same. So
the only thing I can attribute this much softer ride to is the steel tubes.

On the downhill I hit 40 mph on a fairly mild descent. On the C40 by
this time I'd be so sore that I'd be more or less coasting.

I took a detour to put in a couple of extra miles but it turned out that
they were the same distance so I ended up getting home at 12:30. 55
miles, 2,000 ft of climbing with a max of 10% and an average speed of
13.6 which is about a mph faster than normal for a ride of this sort..
Near home I had been forced to stop because these new "light" wheel
quick releases do not hold well and the rear wheel was pulling over on
hard accelerations to make lights and it was like slamming on the brakes.

If you are trying to decide on a new carbon fiber bike you might want to
look at the custom steel offerings from Tommasini for about half the
price. And they can talk about carbon fiber breaking all they want and
you needn't pay the slightest attention.

Jan Heine of _Bicycle Quarterly_ talks about what he calls a "planing"
effect with steel bikes of (what he considers) optimum flexibility. As
I understand it, he believes the flex somehow allows the bike to sort of
synchronize with the rider's pedal strokes and make the ride easier than
with a rigid bike. ("Planing" is apparently an allusion to a speedboat
skimming the surface of the water, rather than plowing through it.)

I'm not saying I believe in "planing" in bikes. But you might be
interested that there's at least one guy who would nod knowingly at your
narration.



The same people that are saying that comfort comes from tires and tire
pressure say that a steel frame is much more comfortable than Al or CF.
That is not my experience in 35 years of riding steel, aluminum, titanium
and CF frames. That C40 must have been a very ****ty bike/frame.

I would be that guy around here, one of those guys elsewhere. I dunno about carbon fibre, because I've never had a carbon bike for long enough to form an attachment to it and thus an opinion; anyway, I'm not a roadie, so all that weightweenieness of carbon is wasted on me. But I've had several steel and aluminium bikes all of roughly the same configuration, and my current steel bike is very stiff indeed -- and also very comfortable. Whereas, my aluminium bikes, all from most reputable makers, have been exceedingly stiff, and almost as nasty as a steel Peugeot on which I'm convinced the tubes were misproportioned because surely the hard tyres couldn't have done all that damage to my back.

My experience with Schwalbe's Big Apples over nearly a decade is that they are worth a lot of sacrifices -- not that they ask you to make any, you understand, but if I had to, I'd give up quite a bit to keep them. Offoaders requiring serious grip may consider the middle of the road grip of the Big Apples a sacrifice too far, but I can't think of another; for very fast tarmac downhill corners the grip is not just fine, it is exceptional because of the pure amount of rubber on the road hanging on and hanging on, forever; I've never lost my bike for lack of grip, and I know all about finding a roadholding edge, so by now I should have fallen a few times, and I haven't.. For the information of those who don't know, the rolling resistance of the Big Apples is less than high pressure thin tyres, in general, proven in particular in tests at the Sports University at Cologne.

There is no doubt in my mind that just about anyone who has the width in his forks, and who is at all interested in riding comfort (which feeds into riding further and faster), should be be on Big Apples or their fat relatives (there are some Schwalbe tyres that are in fact knobbly Big Apples under another name, too).

From all this, and because I'm generally interested in ergonomics and RSI, and because more obvious causes are missing, I've formed the opinion that what matters beyond the compliance of the tyre sidewalls (the effect of the Big Apple is due to an ultrasoft sidewall as much as it is to the huge volume of air) ***is the way your bike's tube material suppresses or dampens micro-vibrations***. Aluminum doesn't, which accounts for the nasty buzz it gives you. Carbon fibre doesn't appear to dampen microvibrations either, and isn't a nice ride either -- though as I say, I have very little carbon experience. Steel, on the other hand, over the same roads, I can ride further and longer without getting a nasty tingle in my hands, a sign that steel helpes to keep microvibrations out of the controls.

I know, I know. This is an argument by exception, basically saying I've run out of explainable things without spending a lot of time and money devising and conducting tests to prove steel kills micro-vibrations, so I pick on the HF roadbuzz because its absence is the most likely beneficial cause of another welcome absence: the tingle in my hands is gone.

I certainly won't ever again buy anything but a steel frame and fork. I've given up the idea of a stainless steel bike because I suspect that stainless won't have the beneficial qualities of the more traditional bicycle steels and might reintroduce the wretched buzz to my hands.

Andre Jute
Manual worker

Andre, you and I are changing the subject over to tires but this is also something we might all look into so I think I'll start a new thread about that.

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 5:25:15 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I've been bragging about the smooth ride of the Basso. Well as they are talking about in the commercials I've been butt blind.

I was so beat up using carbon fiber bikes that the steel bike felt as smooth as glass.

Well after about 300 miles I am beginning to feel the road again on the steel bike. But when I hit a rut or pothole it doesn't hurt and it doesn't throw me off of my line. I have my confidence back descending through it is getting to be time to replace my Armadilloes.

After using those and Gatorskins I find that the Specialized tires have better traction. And I haven't even gotten close to a flat with them.

Taking a quick 34 mile ride today, I made the mistake of riding a couple of miles along Mission Blvd. Inside of those couple miles I ran through six broken whiskey bottles and the Armadilloes picked up nothing.

Why does this sound suspicious -- a classic short wheelbase Italian steel racing bike that smooths-out pot holes, and tires that can be ridden over six broken whiskey (not vodka) bottles with impunity. O.K. And it's fast, too. Wow, that is one magical Basso. BTW, try to avoid the whiskey bottles -- maybe a route that doesn't go through skid row.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 7:32:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 5:25:15 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I've been bragging about the smooth ride of the Basso. Well as they are talking about in the commercials I've been butt blind.

I was so beat up using carbon fiber bikes that the steel bike felt as smooth as glass.

Well after about 300 miles I am beginning to feel the road again on the steel bike. But when I hit a rut or pothole it doesn't hurt and it doesn't throw me off of my line. I have my confidence back descending through it is getting to be time to replace my Armadilloes.

After using those and Gatorskins I find that the Specialized tires have better traction. And I haven't even gotten close to a flat with them.

Taking a quick 34 mile ride today, I made the mistake of riding a couple of miles along Mission Blvd. Inside of those couple miles I ran through six broken whiskey bottles and the Armadilloes picked up nothing.

Why does this sound suspicious -- a classic short wheelbase Italian steel racing bike that smooths-out pot holes, and tires that can be ridden over six broken whiskey (not vodka) bottles with impunity. O.K. And it's fast, too. Wow, that is one magical Basso. BTW, try to avoid the whiskey bottles -- maybe a route that doesn't go through skid row.

-- Jay Beattie.

Mission Blvd is hardly skid row. It is a main artery from Oakland (where it is now International Blvd), through San Leandro and Hayward (where it retains it's original denomination of E. 14th St.) and then past Jackson St. in Hayward (Highway 94) it obtains it's name of Mission Blvd which goes all the way to Milpitas and San Jose. The homes and businesses on either side of the Mission Blvd section are middle class and in some places more.

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 8:07:19 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 7:32:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 5:25:15 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I've been bragging about the smooth ride of the Basso. Well as they are talking about in the commercials I've been butt blind.

I was so beat up using carbon fiber bikes that the steel bike felt as smooth as glass.

Well after about 300 miles I am beginning to feel the road again on the steel bike. But when I hit a rut or pothole it doesn't hurt and it doesn't throw me off of my line. I have my confidence back descending through it is getting to be time to replace my Armadilloes.

After using those and Gatorskins I find that the Specialized tires have better traction. And I haven't even gotten close to a flat with them.

Taking a quick 34 mile ride today, I made the mistake of riding a couple of miles along Mission Blvd. Inside of those couple miles I ran through six broken whiskey bottles and the Armadilloes picked up nothing.

Why does this sound suspicious -- a classic short wheelbase Italian steel racing bike that smooths-out pot holes, and tires that can be ridden over six broken whiskey (not vodka) bottles with impunity. O.K. And it's fast, too. Wow, that is one magical Basso. BTW, try to avoid the whiskey bottles -- maybe a route that doesn't go through skid row.

-- Jay Beattie.

Mission Blvd is hardly skid row. It is a main artery from Oakland (where it is now International Blvd), through San Leandro and Hayward (where it retains it's original denomination of E. 14th St.) and then past Jackson St. in Hayward (Highway 94) it obtains it's name of Mission Blvd which goes all the way to Milpitas and San Jose. The homes and businesses on either side of the Mission Blvd section are middle class and in some places more.

Dude, I was born and raised in California. I got two degrees from SJSU, the Harvard of San Jose -- Mission Boulevard for Mission San Jose. I usually just rode around the reservoirs going north and skipped the arterials. Come down Niles Canyon into Fleamont. All the whisky bottles seem to be another good reason for skipping Mission Boulevard. Back when I lived down there, Mission Boulevard into Oakland was also pretty beaten down, but I guess the whole place is pretty glossy now with all the high-tec money.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 2:44:21 PM UTC+1, wrote:
[quotations snipped to save repetition]

Andre, you and I are changing the subject over to tires but this is also something we might all look into so I think I'll start a new thread about that.

Excellent plan. However, this section from my post above, on the superiority of steel in damping micro-vibrations, belongs he

From all this, and because I'm generally interested in ergonomics and RSI, and because more obvious causes are missing, I've formed the opinion that what matters [...] ***is the way your bike's tube material suppresses or dampens micro-vibrations***. Aluminum doesn't, which accounts for the nasty buzz it gives you. Carbon fibre doesn't appear to dampen microvibrations either, and isn't a nice ride either -- though as I say, I have very little carbon experience. Steel, on the other hand, over the same roads, I can ride further and longer without getting a nasty tingle in my hands, a sign that steel helpes to keep microvibrations out of the controls.

I know, I know. This is an argument by exception, basically saying I've run out of explainable things without spending a lot of time and money devising and conducting tests to prove steel kills micro-vibrations, so I pick on the HF roadbuzz because its absence is the most likely beneficial cause of another welcome absence: the tingle in my hands is gone.

I certainly won't ever again buy anything but a steel frame and fork. I've given up the idea of a stainless steel bike because I suspect that stainless won't have the beneficial qualities of the more traditional bicycle steels and might reintroduce the wretched buzz to my hands.

Andre Jute
Manual worker

On 8/31/2016 10:53 AM, jbeattie wrote:

Dude, I was born and raised in California. I got two degrees from SJSU, the Harvard of San Jose

And you're a natural comedian.

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On 2016-08-31 10:53, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 8:07:19 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 7:32:41 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 5:25:15 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
I've been bragging about the smooth ride of the Basso. Well as
they are talking about in the commercials I've been butt
blind.

I was so beat up using carbon fiber bikes that the steel bike
felt as smooth as glass.

Well after about 300 miles I am beginning to feel the road
again on the steel bike. But when I hit a rut or pothole it
doesn't hurt and it doesn't throw me off of my line. I have my
confidence back descending through it is getting to be time to
replace my Armadilloes.

After using those and Gatorskins I find that the Specialized
tires have better traction. And I haven't even gotten close to
a flat with them.

Taking a quick 34 mile ride today, I made the mistake of riding
a couple of miles along Mission Blvd. Inside of those couple
miles I ran through six broken whiskey bottles and the
Armadilloes picked up nothing.

Why does this sound suspicious -- a classic short wheelbase
Italian steel racing bike that smooths-out pot holes, and tires
that can be ridden over six broken whiskey (not vodka) bottles
with impunity. O.K. And it's fast, too. Wow, that is one
magical Basso. BTW, try to avoid the whiskey bottles -- maybe a
route that doesn't go through skid row.

-- Jay Beattie.

Mission Blvd is hardly skid row. It is a main artery from Oakland
(where it is now International Blvd), through San Leandro and
Hayward (where it retains it's original denomination of E. 14th
St.) and then past Jackson St. in Hayward (Highway 94) it obtains
it's name of Mission Blvd which goes all the way to Milpitas and
San Jose. The homes and businesses on either side of the Mission
Blvd section are middle class and in some places more.

Dude, I was born and raised in California. I got two degrees from
SJSU, the Harvard of San Jose -- Mission Boulevard for Mission San
Jose. I usually just rode around the reservoirs going north and
skipped the arterials. Come down Niles Canyon into Fleamont. All the
whisky bottles seem to be another good reason for skipping Mission
Boulevard. Back when I lived down there, Mission Boulevard into
Oakland was also pretty beaten down, but I guess the whole place is
pretty glossy now with all the high-tec money.


Tech bubble 2.0 is about to burst. Maybe as early as 2017. Then the
number of smashed whiskey bottles will rise again.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 10:53:24 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

Dude, I was born and raised in California. I got two degrees from SJSU, the Harvard of San Jose -- Mission Boulevard for Mission San Jose. I usually just rode around the reservoirs going north and skipped the arterials. Come down Niles Canyon into Fleamont. All the whisky bottles seem to be another good reason for skipping Mission Boulevard. Back when I lived down there, Mission Boulevard into Oakland was also pretty beaten down, but I guess the whole place is pretty glossy now with all the high-tec money.

Jay, I think that we know the source of all of the broken bottles. What has happened to all of the street cleaners that use to run these courses at least once every month? The only place I've see a street cleaner recently was at a construction site.

On Friday, September 2, 2016 at 2:00:48 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

Tech bubble 2.0 is about to burst. Maybe as early as 2017. Then the
number of smashed whiskey bottles will rise again.

I suspect there wasn't a tech bubble. The jobs I was contacted on were so idiotic that they couldn't have been real. An embedded system designer and programmer (me) that is supposed to be experienced in production assembly and PC board design? That should have experience in high level languages and Unix and offshoots?

One wanted a PhD level PC board designer! There is no such thing.

I have had offers from almost every state but not one real phone call in California except from San Diego. And I'm not about to move at 72.

On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:52:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 10:53:24 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

Dude, I was born and raised in California. I got two degrees from SJSU, the Harvard of San Jose -- Mission Boulevard for Mission San Jose. I usually just rode around the reservoirs going north and skipped the arterials. Come down Niles Canyon into Fleamont. All the whisky bottles seem to be another good reason for skipping Mission Boulevard. Back when I lived down there, Mission Boulevard into Oakland was also pretty beaten down, but I guess the whole place is pretty glossy now with all the high-tec money.

Jay, I think that we know the source of all of the broken bottles. What has happened to all of the street cleaners that use to run these courses at least once every month? The only place I've see a street cleaner recently was at a construction site.

Around here on the day the recycling trucks pick up glass there's often a stream of broken/powdered glass on the aods wherethe trucks are when the glass is dumped in them or where the trucks pull out onto the street. I figurethere must be a few good size holes in the bottoms of the bins where the glass gets dumped and the glass trickles out through those holes.

Cheers