Getting Tyred

What it looks like is that we have a group with such a wide variety of interests that perhaps we should discuss the various types of tires.

When I was in Europe I did notice that there was the same sort of trash around the roads but NOT broken glass. Since I was there 20 years ago things could have changed since then.

But in the US and especially in California there is broken glass on the roads all over the place. There is so much of this that it even gets embedded in the asphalt particularly on hot days when the tar softens a bit.

Luckily car tires are steel belted and break these shards off level with the road and sand them down into becoming part of the asphalt. They probably actually improve traction overall.

But bicycle tires are thin and where ever this broken glass is you have flatted tires on the older style tires designed only to be light and have good traction.

So an entirely new kind of bicycle tire was developed. Those with multiple belts that make both a thicker layer between the air inside the tire and the puncture causing material on the roads. The rubber has also been hardened to pick up these shards less often and so not roll over the same thing multiple times slowly pushing it in.

The leading edge of this was the original Specialized Armadillo. Continental rapidly answered with the Gatorskin. Both are excellent at puncture resistance.

Other makes are turning up and I don't know myself how good they compare with these two.

As far as my experience - the Continental is easy to find and you can get them far more reasonably priced than Armadillos.

I FEEL without testing that the Armadillo has slightly softer rubber and better traction and appears to wear better than the Gatorskin.

Now ALL of this has made the tires a great deal harder riding that the softer tires of the past.

So we are seeing a new response by the tire companies to soften the rides: The tubeless tire. This requires rims made especially for tubeless though I think that most modern rims are so constructed. And putting these tires on the first time you need a compressor they are so tight to the rims.

Andre was talking about Schwalbe Big Apple - these are 26" or 29" road treaded tires.

So as far as tires are concerned what are people's experiences?

I'M ALLOVER N NEVER SEE ROAD GLASS. Construction debris ....

Conti has a spectrum for your needs more GT than Swinebee. Swinebee Marathins have a good press but BA's imitate 4WD leaving you stuck to the road on a downhill: super grip.

I have goathead tires on the Trekker: depressing but then no punctures.

see Specialized thornproof tubes both in no sealant and with sealant.

a light Grand Touring like a TT with a thornproof is an acceptable road going compromise. It flats but infrqientlys.

If you are touring with a load then there are 3 choices: heavier tires like Messengers, medium HD sidewalls for carrying weight (50-60+), and lighter true GT tires as speed is better than not even with flats but watch the drops. The latter in the credit card touring area (-35 pds rear)

I following Brown's advice with a slightly larger front contact area than rear ...either wider or with more rubber in contact. I have a double rib setup from England in front wroks good....forget the name...plants early corn with Conti in back.

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 3:07:24 PM UTC+1, wrote:

Andre was talking about Schwalbe Big Apple - these are 26" or 29" road treaded tires.

The key thing about the Big Apple is that they're balloon tyres best operated on low pressures such as 2 bar. Besides the low pressure, they depend on soft sidewalls for their effect. They're outliers in this discussion of tyres for roadies, and I've written extensively about them here and even more so on the Thorn Forum, so don't expect too much from me here.

Andre Jute
Hedon's Pedal Pal

right AJ no longer in the long distance ride area.

I had a BA for the rear on the Redline trekker chosen for riding at the beach (Mx) n Mojave/Sonoran NF roads...for this worked well but on asphalt was tiring, in comparison to a GT/TT even on relatively short distances 10-12 miles. Was stolen at Deschutes prob by an easterner. Adios.

replaced by Vortex knobbies for RR trails n Conti 'speedwells' tires with the teenyweeeny knobs working on 'asphalt'/sandskim. Boiled asphalt.

I doahnwanna put words in your mouth but you are/were looking for GRIP in the BA right ? like Tiger Paws.


we pause for a commercial.

http://boingboing.net/2011/09/20/196...ommercial.html

washed the van roof

On 8/31/2016 7:07 AM, wrote:
What it looks like is that we have a group with such a wide variety of interests that perhaps we should discuss the various types of tires.

snip

So as far as tires are concerned what are people's experiences?

For transportational cycling, I have switched to Schwalbe Marathon Plus.
http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/943. Supposedly they give a harsh
ride, and they are definitely heavy, but on the bike I have installed
them on so far, I notice no difference between those and other 100 psi
20" tires--the ride is harsh period. if I want a less harsh ride I can
run them at lower pressure.

A flat while commuting would take me a lot longer to repair than
whatever time I might gain with a lighter tire.

I have not yet installed the Marathon Plus on other bicycles, but I have
a lot of them in different sizes, ready to install.

One thing I noticed is that when I was in the UK last year, they don't
know how to spell "tires" properly.

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On 8/31/2016 10:07 AM, wrote:

So as far as tires are concerned what are people's experiences?

As I frequently admit, I'm far from being a connoisseur. Heck, I'm
proud I'm even able to spell the word. So take anything below with a
grain of salt.

I think my favorite tires ever were the Avocet slicks, but AFAIK they're
no longer available. I last used them many years ago, but my wife still
has a set on one bike that isn't ridden much. She was pleased when, the
other day, I told her that her tires were much better than mine.

We've got Continental Gatorskins on our tandem (27 x 1 1/4" size - I may
never have to make the switch to 700c on that bike). They've done very
well, but the tandem is so much different than anything else we own that
comparisons between those tires and our others are impossible.

On three other bikes, I've got Panaracer Paselas, based on
recommendations here. I like them quite well, although I still think
the "Tourguard" version has a little more rolling resistance than the
plain version. I couldn't find plain ones locally, though.

The folding bikes have Schwalbe Marathon slicks with kevlar belts. To
me, these have a dead feel; but again, the bikes are so different from
our road bikes it's hard to make comparisons.

I don't have anything to say about traction, wear life or flat
resistance. As evidenced by the Paselas, I don't buy very expensive
tires, so I don't whine when it's time to replace them. And I don't
corner very aggressively, so traction would have to be extremely bad for
me to notice. (The cyclocross tires I tried yesterday were extremely
bad, so much so that I can't imagine using them on the road.) I get
only about one flat per tool found on the road, factors that I think are
connected; it helps to watch the road surface. And ride away from the
edge of the road.

On a somewhat related matter: In one very high-end bike shop yesterday,
I saw a really interesting tire display. The proprietor had cut 6" long
samples out of about a dozen different brand new tires, punched a hole
in one end of each, and strung them on a ring for comparison. It was
interesting to see the cross sections and feel the flexibility or
stiffness in the sidewalls, etc. These were not cheap tires (although I
couldn't tell you the brands now), so he invested a fair amount of money
in his little display. He mentioned that he has customers that spend
upwards of $20,000 on bikes (hard for me to imagine) so I guess he can
afford to ruin some perfectly good tires.

Finally, I think the (relative) rolling resistance data generated by Jan
Heine in _Bicycle Quarterly_ is much more likely to be valid than that
generated by rolling drum tests. Heine got his comparisons by outdoor
coasting tests on an asphalt surface. But IIRC his method didn't
generate CRR estimates useful for calculation. If he repeated his tests
annually (to keep up with model changes) and worked out a way of
calculating CRR, I think his tests would soon be considered the gold
standard.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 1:14:31 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 8/31/2016 7:07 AM, wrote:
What it looks like is that we have a group with such a wide variety of interests that perhaps we should discuss the various types of tires.

snip

So as far as tires are concerned what are people's experiences?

For transportational cycling, I have switched to Schwalbe Marathon Plus.
http://www.schwalbetires.com/node/943. Supposedly they give a harsh
ride, and they are definitely heavy, but on the bike I have installed
them on so far, I notice no difference between those and other 100 psi
20" tires--the ride is harsh period. if I want a less harsh ride I can
run them at lower pressure.

A flat while commuting would take me a lot longer to repair than
whatever time I might gain with a lighter tire.

I have not yet installed the Marathon Plus on other bicycles, but I have
a lot of them in different sizes, ready to install.

One thing I noticed is that when I was in the UK last year, they don't
know how to spell "tires" properly.

I'm currently commuting on really nice tires -- 25mm Conti Grand Prix front and OEM 25mm Turbo on my Roubaix. I'm riding a fun bike until the rain returns.

Fall tires on my CX commuter bike will be some 25/28mm Bontrager sale-table tires (still working through that stock) and then some 28mm Gatorskin left-overs and then some 28mm Conti Supersports or Ultrasports -- some sort of sport that I have knocking around. Studs on snow days and during the worst of the rain, some generic Performance 32mm semi-slicks.

Commuting tires are wear items that I get cheap. Main criteria are wet grip and reasonable puncture resistance. The Marathon Plus is $50 -- too much for daily commuting -- but if I got them on sale somewhere, they look like they would be a good fall to dead-of-winter wet leaf pile tire. I like the Paselas in concept (a nice tread pattern), but even in the TG, the sidewalls are too tender.

I quit buying the true hardcase tires because they ride like wooden wagon wheels. I don't care about fixing a flat now and then, and unlike some others, my route to work is not strewn with broken whisky bottles, goat heads or mountain lions. Some glass, yes, and the usual debris, but no giant metalic creatures. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xndGinZXoKE



-- Jay Beattie.

On 8/31/2016 3:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Commuting tires are wear items that I get cheap. Main criteria are wet grip and reasonable puncture resistance. The Marathon Plus is $50 -- too much for daily commuting -- but if I got them on sale somewhere, they look like they would be a good fall to dead-of-winter wet leaf pile tire.

Yeah, I bought the Marathon Plus at only about 20% off MSRP for my
Dahon. I would not pay that much for all my other bicycles, I'd get
something about 1/2 or 1/3 that price, but I got some more at a very
good price.

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the wet leaves n grunge routing would prosper with a Big Apple tread.

what I enjoy overall is a soft compound on a rrrround profile as 200% contact patch without transition areas as the bike leans over.

TT and Spec turbos (- the haybailing)

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 7:06:27 PM UTC+1, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
right AJ no longer in the long distance ride area.

Where did I say that? You and Krygowski keep making the same dumb mistake of assuming you know conditions where I live, or what I do. You don't.

I ride as far as I ever did. All my longest rides have been explored and taken on Big Apples. The tyres I had previous, Marathon Plus and the Bontrager Hardcase Elite workalike, were just too harsh for me to ride very far.

I had a BA for the rear on the Redline trekker chosen for riding at the beach (Mx) n Mojave/Sonoran NF roads...for this worked well but on asphalt was tiring, in comparison to a GT/TT even on relatively short distances 10-12 miles.

This is either in your mind or because of the weight, because the rolling resistance of the Big Apples is pretty low.

***

I got very few flats on Marathons, Scharfie; I gave them up for two other reasons: they ride like rocks, and they are hell to get off the rim or on the rim even when you're working on a flat table at an ergonomic height with tools and the sex lubricant from your more exciting neighbours standing ready to hand, never mind beside a busy road on a wet winter's evening when you don't have enough tyre levers.

Andre Jute
Andre's World Tour of West Cork