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Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 24th 18, 02:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On 8/24/2018 2:36 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:07:04 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

--
Andrew Muzi


I'm going to disagree. I have a couple bikes with 53x13 high gears. Perfectly fine high gears. A bike with 48x12 high, another with 44x11 high, and another with 52x13. All three are slightly, slightly, slightly under geared. The 44x11 is my touring bike. When riding it unloaded, with a tailwind, and downhill a bit, I can and do spin out a little too soon. It needs just a bit higher gear. Maybe a 45x11 or even a 46x11 high gear. A 4:1 high gear is just not quite high enough. Close, but I want/need just a bit higher high gear. A 50x12 high gear would be near perfect.


More power to you.
Fortunately nowadays, one might walk in to any bike shop and
buy a decent road bike with 53x11, or something lower
geared, for not much money at all. Choice is good! In the
olden days race bikes were 47/51 or 49/52 with a 21 low
freewheel sprocket.
http://classiccycleus.com/home/wp-co...1/Crankset.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


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  #22  
Old August 24th 18, 03:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 6:09:09 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/24/2018 2:36 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:07:04 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

--
Andrew Muzi


I'm going to disagree. I have a couple bikes with 53x13 high gears. Perfectly fine high gears. A bike with 48x12 high, another with 44x11 high, and another with 52x13. All three are slightly, slightly, slightly under geared. The 44x11 is my touring bike. When riding it unloaded, with a tailwind, and downhill a bit, I can and do spin out a little too soon. It needs just a bit higher gear. Maybe a 45x11 or even a 46x11 high gear. A 4:1 high gear is just not quite high enough. Close, but I want/need just a bit higher high gear. A 50x12 high gear would be near perfect.


More power to you.
Fortunately nowadays, one might walk in to any bike shop and
buy a decent road bike with 53x11, or something lower
geared, for not much money at all. Choice is good! In the
olden days race bikes were 47/51 or 49/52 with a 21 low
freewheel sprocket.
http://classiccycleus.com/home/wp-co...1/Crankset.jpg


How things have changed: https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...-stages-332571 I had a Stronglight on my '69 PX10, but I think even that crank had a 45t inner ring, and after that it was all 42t stock Campy and later 39t Shimano before the recent shift to compact. The choice these days is staggering.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #23  
Old August 24th 18, 05:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On 8/24/2018 3:36 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:07:04 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

--
Andrew Muzi


I'm going to disagree. I have a couple bikes with 53x13 high gears. Perfectly fine high gears. A bike with 48x12 high, another with 44x11 high, and another with 52x13. All three are slightly, slightly, slightly under geared. The 44x11 is my touring bike. When riding it unloaded, with a tailwind, and downhill a bit, I can and do spin out a little too soon. It needs just a bit higher gear. Maybe a 45x11 or even a 46x11 high gear. A 4:1 high gear is just not quite high enough. Close, but I want/need just a bit higher high gear. A 50x12 high gear would be near perfect.


As Andrew says, YMMV. The conditions you refer to - unloaded, tailwind,
downhill a bit - are highly optimum and pretty rare in combination.

There's one really sweet, straight road near me with maybe 1% downhill
in the direction of the prevailing tailwind. It even has (gasp!) pretty
good pavement. For that one, I suppose I could get another mile per hour
if my highest gear were 110 gear inches instead of 100.

But the super-sweet spot lasts only a couple miles. If the downhill were
a bit steeper, it would make more sense to coast. So for me, I can't see
altering my gearing to take advantage of such a rare occurrence.

Just in general, an adequate low gear is much more important to me than
an adequate high gear. I think that's true of all non-racers.

--
- Frank Krygowski

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  #24  
Old August 24th 18, 05:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On 8/24/2018 9:09 AM, AMuzi wrote:

More power to you.
Fortunately nowadays, one might walk in to any bike shop and buy a
decent road bike with 53x11, or something lower geared, for not much
money at all. Choice is good! In the olden days race bikes were 47/51 or
49/52 with a 21 low freewheel sprocket.
http://classiccycleus.com/home/wp-co...1/Crankset.jpg


Looks familiar!

Way, way back in 1972, the first "ten speed" I bought came with 52 & 47
tooth chainrings. Once I began thinking about gear ratios, I wondered
what the heck those were about, especially since the original freewheel
yielded a bunch of duplicate gears.

Then I read about Half Step gearing and the light bulb came on. (It was
brighter for me than for the bike's designer, apparently.) That led to
many happy years tinkering with precisely the right 5 or 6 rear cogs. I
even wrote a Fortran program to print out the logarithmic gear plots.

Things have totally changed. All that stuff can now be filed under
History of Technology.

--
- Frank Krygowski

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  #25  
Old August 24th 18, 06:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 1,261
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 9:48:55 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 3:36 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:07:04 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

--
Andrew Muzi


I'm going to disagree. I have a couple bikes with 53x13 high gears. Perfectly fine high gears. A bike with 48x12 high, another with 44x11 high, and another with 52x13. All three are slightly, slightly, slightly under geared. The 44x11 is my touring bike. When riding it unloaded, with a tailwind, and downhill a bit, I can and do spin out a little too soon. It needs just a bit higher gear. Maybe a 45x11 or even a 46x11 high gear. A 4:1 high gear is just not quite high enough. Close, but I want/need just a bit higher high gear. A 50x12 high gear would be near perfect.


As Andrew says, YMMV. The conditions you refer to - unloaded, tailwind,
downhill a bit - are highly optimum and pretty rare in combination.

There's one really sweet, straight road near me with maybe 1% downhill
in the direction of the prevailing tailwind. It even has (gasp!) pretty
good pavement. For that one, I suppose I could get another mile per hour
if my highest gear were 110 gear inches instead of 100.

But the super-sweet spot lasts only a couple miles. If the downhill were
a bit steeper, it would make more sense to coast. So for me, I can't see
altering my gearing to take advantage of such a rare occurrence.

Just in general, an adequate low gear is much more important to me than
an adequate high gear. I think that's true of all non-racers.

--
- Frank Krygowski


You must sure live where you don't have strong winds or long mild downhills.. I run into these conditions all the time. I have been more or less forced to have a 53/11 to be able to pedal on any number of downhills. It keeps you balanced on the bike. Coasting on a rough or twisty road is a little disconcerting as I said before. Not to mention how great it feels to spin out at 28 mph in a 53/13.

In a 53/14 you'd be spinning out at 24-25 mph. Don't you think that's sort of limiting? I'm not talking about riding fast just to ride fast but when the occasion warrants.

And lou - I am not a fast climber and though I can't remember - I probably never was. But since I raced motorcycles I can descend with anyone that isn't crazy. And I have been in several windy conditions in the last couple of years where I could spin out in top gear. If you over-spin you're flopping from side to side.
  #26  
Old August 24th 18, 07:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 10:55:45 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 9:48:55 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 3:36 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:07:04 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

--
Andrew Muzi

I'm going to disagree. I have a couple bikes with 53x13 high gears. Perfectly fine high gears. A bike with 48x12 high, another with 44x11 high, and another with 52x13. All three are slightly, slightly, slightly under geared. The 44x11 is my touring bike. When riding it unloaded, with a tailwind, and downhill a bit, I can and do spin out a little too soon. It needs just a bit higher gear. Maybe a 45x11 or even a 46x11 high gear. A 4:1 high gear is just not quite high enough. Close, but I want/need just a bit higher high gear. A 50x12 high gear would be near perfect.


As Andrew says, YMMV. The conditions you refer to - unloaded, tailwind,
downhill a bit - are highly optimum and pretty rare in combination.

There's one really sweet, straight road near me with maybe 1% downhill
in the direction of the prevailing tailwind. It even has (gasp!) pretty
good pavement. For that one, I suppose I could get another mile per hour
if my highest gear were 110 gear inches instead of 100.

But the super-sweet spot lasts only a couple miles. If the downhill were
a bit steeper, it would make more sense to coast. So for me, I can't see
altering my gearing to take advantage of such a rare occurrence.

Just in general, an adequate low gear is much more important to me than
an adequate high gear. I think that's true of all non-racers.

--
- Frank Krygowski


You must sure live where you don't have strong winds or long mild downhills. I run into these conditions all the time. I have been more or less forced to have a 53/11 to be able to pedal on any number of downhills. It keeps you balanced on the bike. Coasting on a rough or twisty road is a little disconcerting as I said before. Not to mention how great it feels to spin out at 28 mph in a 53/13.

In a 53/14 you'd be spinning out at 24-25 mph. Don't you think that's sort of limiting? I'm not talking about riding fast just to ride fast but when the occasion warrants.


That would be frustrating for you or me, but a lot of people can spin that gear effectively. We all got along with 52/13s back in the day.
https://www..ebay.com/i/222799158528?chn=ps Can you believe someone wants $150 for a Regina Oro? WTF? I better check my parts box and see if I have an old one sitting around. I could be a hundred-iare!

-- Jay Beattie.


  #27  
Old August 24th 18, 07:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 824
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 1:56:06 PM UTC+2, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 5:22:03 AM UTC+2, Duane wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 8/23/2018 7:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/23/2018 3:03 AM, wrote:


They keep insisting using the 11t and still don't get
understand the needs for the 'normal' people. The super
compact cranks come for a reason.

I agree on the 11t issue. Cruising in the middle of a 50 man
peloton? Sure. Otherwise it's just marketing.


A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

Not sure what a super compact crank is.


FSA offer a 48/32 and a 46/30 super compact crank.


Thanks.

I have a mid compact. 52/36
I’ve been known to use 36x11. Thinking of rollers a bit too steep for the
52. No experience with a compact though.


No need to use 36/11. It is the same as 52/16. Probably a straighter
chainline and not on a lousy running 11t sprocket.



I know but what I meant was if I’m on the small ring doing rollers it’s
because they’re a bit steep so when I top one I can stay in the same ring
by going to the 11. Otherwise I’m probably not using 36/11.


Ah, just lazy. Try the synchronize mode of Shimano Di2. You shift just up en down with one lever. Di2 takes care of shifting the front derailleur.

Lou
  #28  
Old August 24th 18, 07:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 824
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 8:15:00 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 10:55:45 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 9:48:55 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 3:36 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:07:04 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

--
Andrew Muzi

I'm going to disagree. I have a couple bikes with 53x13 high gears.. Perfectly fine high gears. A bike with 48x12 high, another with 44x11 high, and another with 52x13. All three are slightly, slightly, slightly under geared. The 44x11 is my touring bike. When riding it unloaded, with a tailwind, and downhill a bit, I can and do spin out a little too soon. It needs just a bit higher gear. Maybe a 45x11 or even a 46x11 high gear. A 4:1 high gear is just not quite high enough. Close, but I want/need just a bit higher high gear. A 50x12 high gear would be near perfect.

As Andrew says, YMMV. The conditions you refer to - unloaded, tailwind,
downhill a bit - are highly optimum and pretty rare in combination.

There's one really sweet, straight road near me with maybe 1% downhill
in the direction of the prevailing tailwind. It even has (gasp!) pretty
good pavement. For that one, I suppose I could get another mile per hour
if my highest gear were 110 gear inches instead of 100.

But the super-sweet spot lasts only a couple miles. If the downhill were
a bit steeper, it would make more sense to coast. So for me, I can't see
altering my gearing to take advantage of such a rare occurrence.

Just in general, an adequate low gear is much more important to me than
an adequate high gear. I think that's true of all non-racers.

--
- Frank Krygowski


You must sure live where you don't have strong winds or long mild downhills. I run into these conditions all the time. I have been more or less forced to have a 53/11 to be able to pedal on any number of downhills. It keeps you balanced on the bike. Coasting on a rough or twisty road is a little disconcerting as I said before. Not to mention how great it feels to spin out at 28 mph in a 53/13.

In a 53/14 you'd be spinning out at 24-25 mph. Don't you think that's sort of limiting? I'm not talking about riding fast just to ride fast but when the occasion warrants.


That would be frustrating for you or me, but a lot of people can spin that gear effectively. We all got along with 52/13s back in the day.
https://www.ebay.com/i/222799158528?chn=ps Can you believe someone wants $150 for a Regina Oro? WTF? I better check my parts box and see if I have an old one sitting around. I could be a hundred-iare!

-- Jay Beattie.


I spin out above 100 rpm. With 50/12 that is at 52.5 km per hour. I know very few descents in the Alpes where that is possible. Above that speed is is more effective to tuck and keep your hands of the brakes. And then there is the next hairpin where you have to slow down to 20-30 km/hr. Speed up after the hairpin with 53/11 from 20-30 km/hr? Yeah right....

Lou
  #29  
Old August 24th 18, 10:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 11:37:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 8:15:00 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 10:55:45 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 9:48:55 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2018 3:36 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, August 23, 2018 at 8:07:04 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:

A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

--
Andrew Muzi

I'm going to disagree. I have a couple bikes with 53x13 high gears. Perfectly fine high gears. A bike with 48x12 high, another with 44x11 high, and another with 52x13. All three are slightly, slightly, slightly under geared. The 44x11 is my touring bike. When riding it unloaded, with a tailwind, and downhill a bit, I can and do spin out a little too soon. It needs just a bit higher gear. Maybe a 45x11 or even a 46x11 high gear. A 4:1 high gear is just not quite high enough. Close, but I want/need just a bit higher high gear. A 50x12 high gear would be near perfect.

As Andrew says, YMMV. The conditions you refer to - unloaded, tailwind,
downhill a bit - are highly optimum and pretty rare in combination.

There's one really sweet, straight road near me with maybe 1% downhill
in the direction of the prevailing tailwind. It even has (gasp!) pretty
good pavement. For that one, I suppose I could get another mile per hour
if my highest gear were 110 gear inches instead of 100.

But the super-sweet spot lasts only a couple miles. If the downhill were
a bit steeper, it would make more sense to coast. So for me, I can't see
altering my gearing to take advantage of such a rare occurrence.

Just in general, an adequate low gear is much more important to me than
an adequate high gear. I think that's true of all non-racers.

--
- Frank Krygowski

You must sure live where you don't have strong winds or long mild downhills. I run into these conditions all the time. I have been more or less forced to have a 53/11 to be able to pedal on any number of downhills. It keeps you balanced on the bike. Coasting on a rough or twisty road is a little disconcerting as I said before. Not to mention how great it feels to spin out at 28 mph in a 53/13.

In a 53/14 you'd be spinning out at 24-25 mph. Don't you think that's sort of limiting? I'm not talking about riding fast just to ride fast but when the occasion warrants.


That would be frustrating for you or me, but a lot of people can spin that gear effectively. We all got along with 52/13s back in the day.
https://www.ebay.com/i/222799158528?chn=ps Can you believe someone wants $150 for a Regina Oro? WTF? I better check my parts box and see if I have an old one sitting around. I could be a hundred-iare!

-- Jay Beattie.


I spin out above 100 rpm. With 50/12 that is at 52.5 km per hour. I know very few descents in the Alpes where that is possible. Above that speed is is more effective to tuck and keep your hands of the brakes. And then there is the next hairpin where you have to slow down to 20-30 km/hr. Speed up after the hairpin with 53/11 from 20-30 km/hr? Yeah right....

Lou



I spun a 50/11 following my son to work yesterday on the flatish route downtown, which is about a 2-3% downhill. It's like drafting a truck, which is another place an over-sized gear comes in handy. Otherwise, I rarely touch the 11t except when descending.


52.5 kph is 32.6 mph. You hear about the pros descending the Alps at 100kph. I can eke out 50mph/80kph just riding out of my neighborhood. This guy got 43mph on a Big Wheel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BirBFFQXdS4 I'd kick his ass! At that speed, though, I'm tucked in and not trying to pedal. The super-steep stuff does tend to be twisty, but there are places where you can get long run-outs and pick up a lot of speed -- but I'd only be pedaling if the grade were under maybe 5-6%. I did that a few months ago on Mt. Bachelor, which has long, low angle pitches. https://dirtyfreehub.com/road/west-coast/mt-bachelor You do a lot of pedaling down hill, which is surprisingly tiring.

-- Jay Beattie.






  #30  
Old August 24th 18, 11:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
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Posts: 1,546
Default Combining Ultegra Cassettes 11-34 + 14-28 - 14-34

wrote:
On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 1:56:06 PM UTC+2, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 5:22:03 AM UTC+2, Duane wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
On 8/23/2018 7:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/23/2018 3:03 AM, wrote:


They keep insisting using the 11t and still don't get
understand the needs for the 'normal' people. The super
compact cranks come for a reason.

I agree on the 11t issue. Cruising in the middle of a 50 man
peloton? Sure. Otherwise it's just marketing.


A 42x11 is a reasonable high gear. For me, anyway.
YMMV and for Mr Kunich it will.

Not sure what a super compact crank is.

FSA offer a 48/32 and a 46/30 super compact crank.


Thanks.

I have a mid compact. 52/36
I’ve been known to use 36x11. Thinking of rollers a bit too steep for the
52. No experience with a compact though.

No need to use 36/11. It is the same as 52/16. Probably a straighter
chainline and not on a lousy running 11t sprocket.



I know but what I meant was if I’m on the small ring doing rollers it’s
because they’re a bit steep so when I top one I can stay in the same ring
by going to the 11. Otherwise I’m probably not using 36/11.


Ah, just lazy. Try the synchronize mode of Shimano Di2. You shift just up
en down with one lever. Di2 takes care of shifting the front derailleur.

Lou


Yep, just lazy. 😏
Maybe my next bike will have Di2 but this one doesn’t.

--
duane
 




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