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recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering
Hi
I'm seriously considering buying a recumbent so that I can commute to work on it (probably about 10km each way). However despite following recumbent discussions since about 1996 and keeping an eye on the changes in stuff (mainly greenspeed and now Terra Trikes) I still have not ever had my arse on one. Riding back home last night (MTB no suspension) while thinking about the bent I found myself tugging up the front wheel as I moved from street to foot path (not over the gutter ;-) as there was not a smooth transition from one level to the next (about a 2cm edge more or less). This got me to thinking about how a recumbent would feel and how 'bumpy a ride' it might be. Having done some "carting" in the past I can say that it upsets my neck due to it being too bumpy and sitting back looking forward. Since these things have no 'suspension' how will this sort of road irregularity feel? Jarring? Next I'd like to know about cornering. I've been told that they corner much better than 'diamond back' bicycles. Where I'll be riding has a mixture of short but steep downhills with 90deg corners (although the cycle path is wide so I can easilly negociate if I slow down :-). When these are slippery will the recumbent be significantly advantaged? Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't be able to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short stints up hills. Sorry about the long ish post, but if I'm going to pop $1500 on a recumbent I'd better bloody like it ;-) See Ya (when bandwidth gets better ;-) Chris Eastwood Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat blog: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/ please remove undies for reply |
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#2
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recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering
In aus.bicycle on Fri, 19 Sep 2008 04:00:58 GMT
obakesan wrote: First off.. trike or bike? Unless you get an Anura delta or similar highish one, I wouldn't recommend commuting on a trike. The vision you get down there is not good if there's any traffic involved, you just can't see well enough. Most people don't realise there are two wheeled bents. Go to flyingfurniture.com.au or trisled.com.au to see what's available in Oz. This got me to thinking about how a recumbent would feel and how 'bumpy a ride' it might be. Having done some "carting" in the past I can say that it upsets my neck due to it being too bumpy and sitting back looking forward. depends on the beastie. You can buy bikes with suspension, and I think there may be a trike with it, but not sure. On my Bacchetta Giro Bike, most of the bumps are taken by a combination of the monospar frame and the mesh seat and seat cushion. The ride is smoother than a gokart and bumps of a cm or two are more about "eek! my rims!" than "ouch my neck". Really rough roads like bits of bike path with tree roots under are unpleasant. I usually cope by lifting bum off seat by bracing between seatback and pedals. can't pedal like that of course. Next I'd like to know about cornering. I've been told that they corner much better than 'diamond back' bicycles. Where I'll be riding has a mixture of short but steep downhills with 90deg corners (although the cycle path is wide so I can easilly negociate if I slow down :-). When these are slippery will the recumbent be significantly advantaged? No idea, but I don't have a problem with either slow or fast tight turns, but you do have to practice a bit, especially slow ones. I don't know how DF bikes manage, so can't give you a comparison. The Giro handles easily and well in fast turns. Trikes need a lot of body english in fast turns. It is certainly possible to roll a trike. Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't be able to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short stints up hills. You can - more than your knees can handle. That's the problem: on an upright you can only put your bodyweight into it, you can't push harder than that. On a bent you can put your back against the seat and put all of your leg muscles into it. Your legs can do way more than your bodyweight or you couldn't carry things up stairs. But push the amount you can push and bye bye knees! So on a bent if you don't want to blow your knees you have to learn to spin more. YOu can do 30 RPM standing up on an upright, you don't want to drop below 50 on a bent. If you do, you will probably be pushing too much and do your knees in. Most people try to keep over 70 at all times on a bent. Most people say bents are slow up hills, but when you go like for like in weight of bike and fitness of rider, it isn't really so. The problem is that most bents are heavier than most uprights, so are more work on hills, and people doing the measuring are usually measuring unfit riders against fit. A fit rider on a bent who has recumbent trained legs can do hills quite nicely thank you and keep up with DF riders on lighter bikes although probably not beat them. Until the downhill.... Usually what happens is a bent can keep up on the flat and not the hills. I think this is because the bent gets a distinct aerodynamic advantage on the flat, so the rider could be 20% less fit than the others if just keeping up. Get to the hill, no aero, 20% worse. Zebee |
#3
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recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering
Hi
In article , wrote: In aus.bicycle on Fri, 19 Sep 2008 04:00:58 GMT obakesan wrote: First off.. trike or bike? it was in the subject See Ya (when bandwidth gets better ;-) Chris Eastwood Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat blog: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/ please remove undies for reply |
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recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering
In aus.bicycle on Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:15:06 GMT
obakesan wrote: Hi In article , wrote: In aus.bicycle on Fri, 19 Sep 2008 04:00:58 GMT obakesan wrote: First off.. trike or bike? it was in the subject I know - but most people who say "trike" say it because they think that's the only kind of recumbent there is. They don't realise there are high racer 2 wheelers, only trikes or sometimes they know about low racers such as the Optima or NoCom. Zebee |
#6
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recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering
On Sep 19, 3:12*pm, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't be able to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short stints up hills. You can - more than your knees can handle. *That's the problem: on an upright you can only put your bodyweight into it, you can't push harder than that. * Not true at all. Pulling against the 'bars provides a solid platform for a _lot_ of torque. |
#7
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recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering
HiYa
In article , wrote: In aus.bicycle on Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:15:06 GMT obakesan wrote: Hi In article , wrote: In aus.bicycle on Fri, 19 Sep 2008 04:00:58 GMT obakesan wrote: First off.. trike or bike? it was in the subject I know - but most people who say "trike" say it because they think that's the only kind of recumbent there is. They don't realise there are high racer 2 wheelers, only trikes or sometimes they know about low racers such as the Optima or NoCom. I know, its a problem created in dealing with "the general public". Typically (these days, may change next year ;-) I prefer to assume people are not stupid till they provide evidence to demonstrate they may be. This however is problematic when doing desktop support (thank GOD I don't do that anymore :-) I remain unable to be certain as to how to approach questions like "the database is locked up" from some users when from my console it looks fine (but I digress ;-). thanks for the pointers :-) See Ya (when bandwidth gets better ;-) Chris Eastwood Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat blog: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/ please remove undies for reply |
#8
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recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering
In article , Bleve wrote:
On Sep 19, 3:12=A0pm, Zebee Johnstone wrote: Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't = be able to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short = stints up hills. You can - more than your knees can handle. =A0That's the problem: on an upright you can only put your bodyweight into it, you can't push harder than that. =A0 Not true at all. Pulling against the 'bars provides a solid platform for a _lot_ of torque. yeah, I kind of do that with my 'diamond back' bicycle now ... thankfully I've not hurt my knees skiing (although I can't say the same about my toes [cross country bindings = fall backwards if at all possible]) See Ya (when bandwidth gets better ;-) Chris Eastwood Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat blog: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/ please remove undies for reply |
#9
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recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering
obakesan wrote: Hi I'm seriously considering buying a recumbent so that I can commute to work on it (probably about 10km each way). However despite following recumbent discussions since about 1996 and keeping an eye on the changes in stuff (mainly greenspeed and now Terra Trikes) I still have not ever had my arse on one. Riding back home last night (MTB no suspension) while thinking about the bent I found myself tugging up the front wheel as I moved from street to foot path (not over the gutter ;-) as there was not a smooth transition from one level to the next (about a 2cm edge more or less). This got me to thinking about how a recumbent would feel and how 'bumpy a ride' it might be. Having done some "carting" in the past I can say that it upsets my neck due to it being too bumpy and sitting back looking forward. Since these things have no 'suspension' how will this sort of road irregularity feel? Jarring? Next I'd like to know about cornering. I've been told that they corner much better than 'diamond back' bicycles. Where I'll be riding has a mixture of short but steep downhills with 90deg corners (although the cycle path is wide so I can easilly negociate if I slow down :-). When these are slippery will the recumbent be significantly advantaged? Lastly hils ... I've heard that (and it makes sence) that I just won't be able to put pressure on the pedals like I can on the diamond back for short stints up hills. Sorry about the long ish post, but if I'm going to pop $1500 on a recumbent I'd better bloody like it ;-) See Ya (when bandwidth gets better ;-) Only once did I ever see anyone on a bent pass me while he rode on a flat bit of highway parallel to the cycle path where I was on an upright. The dude was young, strong, and fit, and I was 35 years older, a bit heavy, and not too fit or strong at that time. And bents are really useless up hills. Ya can't do a good standing sprint when ya wanna. I pass them real fast then. Most time on a bike or bent is spent going uphill. Bents are only faster on the flat or down hill where the lower frontal area gives less wind drag. Nearly everyone I see riding a bent is doing it for fun and short distances. They just gotta try porridge. I doubt too many decide to ride 200km a week just for fitness and freedom like I do. I have 23mm tyres and both my bikes have 531 and 753R steel frames and yes I gotta stand a bit on pedals over bumps and and lift the front wheel a bit over kerbs. I'm not as good as the kids i see on bmx though. My odometer shows 7,500 km since Jan8 this year when I bought the cyclometer. No broken bones, and no stiff neck from leaning foward and looking up. The position is a bit critical, and gets moreso as you age. If I lowered the handle bars to full time trial race position which the good young blokes use I'd soon get a bad neck out of it. I raced for 6 years 20 years back as a veteran and often did a time trial and if I lowered the bars only 5mm more than usual i'd get a crook neck. The setting was that critical then. I have the bars about 10mm higher now than 20 years back. But I have found what works. Sitting any more upright would make more weight on me arse, and cause arse fatigue too easily, so you need your arms to take some weight. Arms should be slightly bent, and absorb the bumps which you should see coming. Belive it or not, the right position that looks a bit awkward to non cyclists can be a comfortable one, like your'e a bird on wings, and at one with your wheels. But once last year I misjudged a bump between grass and bike path as a storm that week had washed it out deeper. So when I tried to first push down before lifting the front the wheel hit the 100m ridge as a shallow angle. "SPROING!" went the frame and the bump so dislodged me that I lost all conrol and fell like a sack of potatoes on the tarmac and to the astonishment of two runners coming the other way. I didn't break anything although I punctured a front tyre. The grazing to one ankle took 3 months to heal after the infection was stopped. I used to be able to ride 300km at one sitting. I rode 300km to Sydney from Canberra one day aged 42, no worries. Rested a day there and on the way back stayed at Goulburn. Later I did a charity ride with a bunch from Kings Cross Sydney to the top of Black Mt in Canberra, 300km from 1am to 4pm with the last 100km in a very stiff headwind. I doubt i could have achieved this sorta travel on a bent and people don't see you coming too well. All up I must have ridden about 120,000 km so far over 8 years when I have ridden bikes keenly. I have had a few real bad necks though but not from cycling as far as i can tell. I used to be a builder and i did all my own carpentry on the contracts i did. I found putting up sheets of gyprock on ceilings and hammering or screw driving upwards with a sheet on my head would cause a stiff neck. So I found a really good lady doctor who was also a very **good** accupuncturist. I'd been in agony and off work for 3 weeks and she had me right after one vist and 20 minutes with 4 needles. Pain free, and it worked a miracle. I've had a few very bad backs, and have been reduced to crawling around the house on all fours, and a good accupuncturist has had me right in no time. Had a bad arm 3 years ago, couldn't type a website. Saw my accu guy, and two visits later he had me perfect and I typed me arse off for 6 months getting a website done. Yoga also helps. Chiropractics and physiotherapy usually didn't do much at all and often made things worse. Slow release Voltaren worked well at first, then next time not so well and then it had side effects. Ya can't depend on pills. I ain't ready to buy a bent. 10km a day to work and 10km back home 5 days a week is only 100km, and childs play. I ride 200km a week to keep fit. 3 rides a week. I work at home, and have to do something arduous lest I rot to pieces in mind and body because the older you get the better you was. I cannot do the huge rides i used to do 20 years ago, but 100km with cheerful company in warmer months is fine. At 61 I don't often get a sore arse, and my back is fine, weight is back where it was at 30, and soon my pool will warm to allow me to swim 300metres a day ( 35 laps ) and this will ease the "stange contortions" that one subjects oneself to on a push bike. I have leather Brooke saddles on both bikes. Left adjusted slightly loose they can be very uncomfortable. So ya gotta know when to give the adjust screw a turn to tighten the leather. Not too much or you'll fatigue the leather. The bolt breaks after about 10,000km, and i've broken two while out on a ride. I replace the standard 8mm bolt with a home made 10mm one and no more worries until finally the leather yields at the front of the saddle and you need to spend on a new saddle. Some of the Brooke saddles have different types of rivetting leather and there's a difference how long they'll last. Depends how far ya ride a bit, and how often you grease up the saddle with the Brooke mixture. Don't leave ya bike against a wall sitting out in the sun. I tried lotsa different saddles, gel-filled, foam rubber, and after awhile they all felt like a concrete seat. The leather has slight give, and your perineum is slung between the for and aft fixing of the leather. One has to get into the habit of moving off the seat to stand on the pedals even on long flat stretches of road to give your arse a rest. It becomes second nature to be dynamic on the bike. And don't forget to shave between your prick and your arsole every few weeks because if your'e hairy down there it leads to saddle sores. Some lanoline rubbed on helps stop the chaffing. Good cyclist get slim so they don't chafe much. Who'd *need* a bent? A trike would be grand with a battery and motor fitted for the hills. Patrick Turner. Chris Eastwood Photographer, Programmer Motorcyclist and dingbat blog: http://cjeastwd.blogspot.com/ please remove undies for reply |
#10
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recumbent trikess: bumps, hills, comfort and cornering
This however is
problematic when doing desktop support (thank GOD I don't do that anymore :-) Reminds me of this funny cartoon: http://saintgasoline.com/comics/2007-02-09.JPG |
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