27 inch tires make a comeback

The "story" isn't about 27" tires making some sort of a comeback. Rather,
it's about people taking old bikes out of the garage and wanting to ride
them again. A noble gesture, but most of these bikes are way past their
shelf life, and usually aren't worth bringing back to life. You could
spend a whole lot of money fixing up some of those old relics, and
usually still not have something as practical or comfortable as a common
hybrid.

Gee, what's involved in the "bring back to life"? New tires/tubes, new
chain, new cables/housing, new brake pads and an overhaul. Oh, and
maybe a new freewheel. With all that, the bike will probably be better
than the day it rolled of the LBS sales floor. And, alot of these
"old relics" (as you call them), won't even need that much attention.

How much for a decent "common hybrid" these days?

remainder snipped

I know you enjoy arguing for the sake of it, but the bikes I'm talking about
are not the functional bikes of the mid-80s, an era dominated by
much-higher-quality Japanese equipment that had pushed out the garbage that
passed for rims, cranks, derailleurs & brakes on bikes of the 70s.

You've also got to recognize that people change too. What somebody enjoyed
riding when they were 20 is not always suitable for the shape they're in (or
not in) when they're 50. You might be in the same shape when you're 50 that
you were when much younger, which is great. I'd encourage you to do
everything in your power to stay fit and never, ever, spend much time away
from the bicycle. I'm very fortunate that I ride with pretty much exactly
the same fit & position at 52 that I did when I was 16 and racing several
times/week. But that's not typical.

This isn't about selling bikes. It's about getting people to ride them. And
if that takes a different style of bike than what they used many years ago,
so be it.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Ozark Bicycle" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 1:10 am, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:
"ZBicyclist" wrote in
...

| "When Steve Flagg reviewed his inventory reports recently, one item
| jumped off the page-27-inch tires. "We were totally unprepared for
| the demand in 27-inch tires," said Flagg, president of Quality
| Bicycle Products.
|
| "Wayne D. Gray, vice-president of KHS/FreeAgent Bicycles, noticed
| the same trend. "We're seeing a lot of demand for them. It's people
| taking their old Schwinn Varsity out of the garage and to a shop for
| new tires and a tuneup." "
|
|
| Sent to me by Bob Matter (who posts on a lot of sites, but not
| r.b.m.)
|http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/...tail/1558.html

The "story" isn't about 27" tires making some sort of a comeback. Rather,
it's about people taking old bikes out of the garage and wanting to ride
them again. A noble gesture, but most of these bikes are way past their
shelf life, and usually aren't worth bringing back to life. You could
spend a whole lot of money fixing up some of those old relics, and
usually still not have something as practical or comfortable as a common
hybrid.

Gee, what's involved in the "bring back to life"? New tires/tubes, new
chain, new cables/housing, new brake pads and an overhaul. Oh, and
maybe a new freewheel. With all that, the bike will probably be better
than the day it rolled of the LBS sales floor. And, alot of these
"old relics" (as you call them), won't even need that much attention.

How much for a decent "common hybrid" these days?

remainder snipped

In article ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" writes in part:

The typical person today is looking for a bike with a much higher handlebar
position than back then,

Wow, people have sure become decrepit in such short order.

and they're also typically looking for modern
shifting. Those two things are both difficult and expensive to accomplish on
an older machine.

Uninformed people want "easy," as in: you don't have
to use your brain or your body. Plain 'n simple.
The typical person today wants a bike that does
everything and provide all the comforts a car does,
except to drink gasoline, cost $$$ at the pump, and
spew poison into the troposphere. Boy, are they in
for a disappointment when they learn that a bike
can't fake being a car, any more than a canoe can fake
being a dreadnaught.

How much easier is indexed shifting from friction?
I mean, really?

Brifters on an Apollo 10-speed would be interesting.


cheers,
` Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

On Jul 12, 11:27 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
"peter" wrote in message

...



On Jul 11, 11:10 pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote:

The "story" isn't about 27" tires making some sort of a comeback. Rather,
it's about people
taking old bikes out of the garage and wanting to ride them again. A
noble gesture, but most of
these bikes are way past their shelf life, and usually aren't worth
bringing back to life. You
could spend a whole lot of money fixing up some of those old relics, and
usually still not have
something as practical or comfortable as a common hybrid.

Sounds like what a friend of mine was told by one LBS concerning his
mid-80s Cannondale. I suggested taking another look and now it sports
new 27" tires and a wider range crankset thanks to another LBS that
was more considerate and helped scrounge through their old parts bin.
He plans to ride it for his solo attempt in the next Furnace Creek
508. Should I really suggest that he use a hybrid instead?

But WHY 27" wheels??? If you're going to replace the wheels, very often you
have enough room in the brake pad adjustment to use 700c. Why wouldn't you?
It would make tire choice options so much easier.

Who said anything about replacing wheels? The hubs, spokes, and rims
were in fine shape and even the freewheel was in good condition.

I'm not against rescuing old bikes. But I don't understand why people don't
make more of an attempt to bring them up to modern standards when they're
replacing something (and it doesn't make a difference price-wise).

27" tires are readily available at reasonable prices, so I don't see a
compelling need to switch to 700c just yet on either his Cannondale or
either of my older bikes.

The typical person today is looking for a bike with a much higher
handlebar
position than back then,

Wow, people have sure become decrepit in such short order.

No, not at all!!! I think the bikes available to people back in the 70s &
early 80s were simply the wrong type of bike for what *most* people needed.
Bikes that were designed for people like you & me, but when you look at the
bikes used in countries that have large numbers cycling for daily
transportation, drop-bar derailleur bikes aren't what you find.

People haven't become much more decrepit (but maybe a little), but the bikes
have become much more in tune with how they'll be used. We've finally gotten
away from the reactionary swings of our industry (nose-in-the-gravel road
bikes for all, then switching to mountain bikes for all) and have some
offerings that people get on and think hey, I like this. I could actually
ride a bike like this to the store or work.

and they're also typically looking for modern
shifting. Those two things are both difficult and expensive to accomplish
on
an older machine.

Uninformed people want "easy," as in: you don't have
to use your brain or your body. Plain 'n simple.
The typical person today wants a bike that does
everything and provide all the comforts a car does,
except to drink gasoline, cost $$$ at the pump, and
spew poison into the troposphere. Boy, are they in
for a disappointment when they learn that a bike
can't fake being a car, any more than a canoe can fake
being a dreadnaught.

You sound like me back in the day, only the conversation wasn't about bikes,
but computers. There was no way I would ever recommend an Apple Mac, a
computer that anyone could turn on and just simply use. No way. I grew up
with CP/M machines that you had to enter a hex boot code into a front panel
to get started. And the machines I used were so much more capable if you
knew what you were doing. Yeah, great, so somebody who wanted to spend too
much of their life learning how to use the computer could do amazing things,
maybe more than someone with a Mac, but that Mac person didn't have to spend
much time learning anything, they just used it, and they were happy.

How much easier is indexed shifting from friction?
I mean, really?

Bikes shouldn't be an exclusive club with a secret handshake. There should
be simple options that take away most of the decisions. Cars with automatics
dramatically outsell cars with manual shifting, despite lower costs for the
manual, and often better fuel economy. To say that friction shifting should
be easy to figure out is silly. The human interface with the bike shouldn't
be at all technical. The less the rider (notice I didn't say "cyclist",
which seems to imply that one is already a member of the secret society) has
to know about how the machine works, the better.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" writes in part:

The typical person today is looking for a bike with a much higher
handlebar
position than back then,

Wow, people have sure become decrepit in such short order.

and they're also typically looking for modern
shifting. Those two things are both difficult and expensive to accomplish
on
an older machine.

Uninformed people want "easy," as in: you don't have
to use your brain or your body. Plain 'n simple.
The typical person today wants a bike that does
everything and provide all the comforts a car does,
except to drink gasoline, cost $$$ at the pump, and
spew poison into the troposphere. Boy, are they in
for a disappointment when they learn that a bike
can't fake being a car, any more than a canoe can fake
being a dreadnaught.

How much easier is indexed shifting from friction?
I mean, really?

Brifters on an Apollo 10-speed would be interesting.


cheers,
` Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

|http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/...tail/1558.html

The "story" isn't about 27" tires making some sort of a comeback. Rather, it's about people taking old bikes out of the garage and wanting to ride them again. A noble gesture, but most of these bikes are way past their shelf life, and usually aren't worth bringing back to life.

"Shelf life"? Compared to what Trek et al are flogging these days,
Chicago Schwinns just don't expire. They're like the Twinkies of the
bike world. Schwinn offered a lifetime frame warranty when that
wasn't a common thing to do, and they built their bikes accordingly.

It's true that steel wheels suck, and drop bars suck, and "turkey
wing" brake lever extensions suck, and anything Schwinn used as a seat
sucks-- but Chicago Schwinn frames, forks, and one-piece cranks should
still be kicking (and looking good), when all the plastic disposabikes
of the '00s have crumbled into toxic dust.

With good wheels, brakes, and seat, and an appropriate riding
position, those old bikes ride as nicely as anything. They are heavy,
but that's not too serious a handicap for the sort of low-commitment
riding most people are willing to undertake.

You could spend a whole lot of money fixing up some of those old relics, and usually still not have something as practical or comfortable as a common hybrid.

With a modest and cost-effective parts setup, an old Varsity or
Continental frame can be _more_ comfortable, just as practical, and
infinitely more durable and stylish than a modern hybrid. Their slack
seat angles make them far better for general-purpose easy riding than
the schizophrenic high-front-end/steep-seat-tube layout of today's
hybrid and comfort bikes.

Chalo

On Jul 13, 12:30*am, (Tom Keats) wrote:
In article ,
* * * * "ZBicyclist" writes:

The most-common issue with the Schwinn Varsity, as seen a couple
times/week at the shop? People not understanding that the pressure
listed on the sidewall of the tire relates to installation on a
decent-quality rim with a hooked edge. The old Schwinns had smooth
sidewalls on the rims, and a tire rated at 90psi will likely blow
out
at 60psi.

Yes, you need a different tire. I think they were S-7 (not 27). *I
think the equivalent 26 inch was an S-6. You can still get these
tires, but they are hard to find. Plus those rims are likely to be
steel.

Schwinn and their proprietism (proprietarity?
proprietariness?)

I'm up to my neck in salvaged alu-alloy 27" wheels.
Many are in practically new condition, and some bear
those lovely Suzue one-piece hubs.

I dunno if they're interchangeable with old Schwinn
wheels though. *Oddly enough, we don't get to see many
Schwinns here in Vancouver BC. *Most of our bikes (that
are seen actually in use on the street) are of Canadian
mfg or imported from Japan. *And the occasional Raleigh
or Peugeot antique.

Anyway, a vast quantity of '70s Bike Boom imports
from Japan are still in service here, and I expect
they will be for decades to come, as long as
replacement parts are available for them. *It's
unfortunate that so many USA'ans are so deprived
of these Japan-built beauties (mostly Sekines and
Apollos,)


Sikines are Japanese? I thought they were Canadian from Winnipeg, or
at least, somewhere in Manitoba. I am sure my Sekine MBT had a Made
in Canada sticker.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
But any shop person who's been around for a while will remember
"affectionate" names like the "Raleigh Wrecker" (Record) and other period
pieces of trash.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

I still ride a Wrecker (ca. 1982) almost every day to/from work. Got it as a
frame replacement after my ca. 1976 Wrecker (the one with the plastic derailer)
frame broke (bottom end of seat tube at the lug). Lifetime warranty on the frame.

My Wrecker was one of the few budget "10-speed" bikes that came in a large (27")
frame size, although the components were not matched to the frame size (e.g.
narrow handlebars, 165mm cranks).

It's heavy and down-market by today's standards, but I for a time I rode it in the
local hills and to the coast. Now it gets me around town every day--have no idea
how many miles are on it, but I'm sure it's in the 10s of thousands, and I don't
have to worry about thieves. When something breaks it's always been easier to
patch it together than to go out and buy a new bike. Old glove.

--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
...
How much easier is indexed shifting from friction?
I mean, really?

Bikes shouldn't be an exclusive club with a secret handshake. There should
be simple options that take away most of the decisions. Cars with automatics
dramatically outsell cars with manual shifting, despite lower costs for the
manual, and often better fuel economy. To say that friction shifting should
be easy to figure out is silly. The human interface with the bike shouldn't
be at all technical. The less the rider (notice I didn't say "cyclist",
which seems to imply that one is already a member of the secret society) has
to know about how the machine works, the better.

On my trike with Ultegra bar-end shifters, 11-32 9-speed cassette and
Tiagra rear derailer, I find it just as easy and accurate to shift in
friction mode as in indexed mode. It ain't that hard.

If all cars had non-syncromesh gearboxes, it would take care of the
yakking on the cell phone issue in short order.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"People who had no mercy will find none." - Anon.

In article ,
John Kane writes:

Anyway, a vast quantity of '70s Bike Boom imports
from Japan are still in service here, and I expect
they will be for decades to come, as long as
replacement parts are available for them. *It's
unfortunate that so many USA'ans are so deprived
of these Japan-built beauties (mostly Sekines and
Apollos,)
Sikines are Japanese? I thought they were Canadian from Winnipeg, or
at least, somewhere in Manitoba. I am sure my Sekine MBT had a Made
in Canada sticker.

Yes, Sekine set up a mfging plant in Manitoba
in 1973, in order to circumvent a 25% tariff
at the time. Just in time for the Oil Crisis.

http://www.geocities.com/randyjawa/S...ryArticle.html

I didn't know they made MTBs, though. Norco
has a model named Sekine; I forget if it's
a MTB, hybrid or whatever.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Chalo wrote:

With a modest and cost-effective parts setup, an old Varsity or
Continental frame can be _more_ comfortable, just as practical, and
infinitely more durable and stylish than a modern hybrid. Their slack
seat angles make them far better for general-purpose easy riding than
the schizophrenic high-front-end/steep-seat-tube layout of today's
hybrid and comfort bikes.

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

I know you enjoy arguing for the sake of it, but the bikes I'm
talking about
are not the functional bikes of the mid-80s, an era dominated by
much-higher-quality Japanese equipment that had pushed out the
garbage that
passed for rims, cranks, derailleurs & brakes on bikes of the 70s.

I think you both have valid points. As someone who has rebuilt several
old bikes, I'd have to admit that it isn't always a cost-effective
exercise. What makes it reasonable is the ability to scrounge parts and
DIY wrenching. The average Joe pulling a bike from mothballs doesn't
have a clue and most bike shops aren't in the restoration business. So
Mike's right in that it's not a reasonable path for the masses, but
Chalo's right in that, if you have a little know-how and ambition, you
can get the best of both worlds for short money.

Some old bikes can frustrate (Schwinn stems, French BB's), but even bike
boom era bikes have some charms, like my wife's no-name (Portuguese?)
with pinch bolts rather than lockrings on the BB shell. Some old parts
were junk (like the justly maligned Simplex), but Weinmann centerpulls
with Kool-Stop salmons always did the job for me.

I like indexed shifting. I like shifters somewhere on the bars. Most of
the time it's hard to match up old bikes with reasonably priced
brifters. I usually go with bar-ends and save the calipers and levers,
but bar-ends are getting scarce. Twist/trigger shifters and V-brake
stuff is really cheap and works very well, but calipers are the problem.

My wife's favorite bike is built up from a trash-day bike. No-name Asian
frame, roughly fabricated, but with really nice slack angles, canti
studs, braze-ons and made for 26" wheels. With flat bar, trigger
shifters, V-brakes, fenders, rack, MTB triple crank and derailers, it
makes a much better all-round commuter/utility bike than any hybrid I've
seen, very similar to a Koga-Miata, but at about 1/10 the price. The guy
who threw it out, saw it, and wanted to buy it back, but she's not selling.