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Is Mike Andaman finally dead?



 
 
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  #41  
Old August 13th 13, 05:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
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Posts: 538
Default Is Mike Andaman finally dead?

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

Riding your bicycle on a hiking trail is an ultimate evil.


I’ll let Stalin, Pol Pot, Ceaucescu, Amin, Mugabe and co know

:-). What a silly overdramatisation.

Everything is in a context. We are not discussing politics, but
bicycles on trails.


Then perhaps you should remember that before making such foolish, overdramatic statements ?


???

The laws will have to be changed because of scofflaws like
you.


Now you’ve really lost it. You want to CHANGE the laws so

that what I’m doing now, perfectly legally, becomes illegal so that, then, you
can call me a scofflaw ? Fantastic logic there Ed.

The only logic that is flawed is yours. Cycling on trails was
not done until recently with the advent of the mountain bike. We now need laws
to ban such usage on hiking trails. Such laws (rules) are already in place for
Wilderness Areas.


Nice non-sequitur Ed; have you tied yourself up in logic ? You called me a scofflaw; I'm not since I don't ride where I'm not permitted to do so. Care to recant ?


You are simply taking advantage like all opportunists of the lack of proper regulations. Where is the virtue in that?

There are zillions of miles of roads and streets for you to
ride your bike on. Hiking trails are for walkers. This was always the case until
recently. What is new is often very bad indeed. We hikers HATE bikers on our
trails. Get your own trails! What’s the matter – can’t walk?


This is getting foolish; I have addressed all of these points again and again. Come on, surely you can come up with one actual FACT, as opposed to simple opinion, to backup your position ?


“What’s the matter – can’t walk?” – Ed Dolan
[...]

The only one who has to change one’s mind is you. Things will
get worse before they get better. We hikers will have the last word. Why? Common
sense – something that you and all mountain bikers totally lack. All you have
got going for you is testosterone, a hormone that is only good for sex and doing
other risky things like cycling on hiking trails.


Well, if it does come down to testosterone and sex then we will out-reproduce you and win that way :-).


Mr. Vandeman believes that some natural beauty can be saved from economic exploitation. I don’t. It is all going the way of the Dodo Bird. We will end up lving in a world that is devoid of natural beauty. It will be man made ugliness as far as the eye can see.

And your common sense is, fortunately, not so common nor is it sense. I recall that, earlier in this thread, you kept posting 'Old people die of heart disease' despite the statistics showing that Ischaemic Heart Disease is on the rise in the younger age groups. Today's Times front page highlights this risk; http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/health...cle3840186.ece.


So, Ed, you can see why I don't accept your 'Common Sense' ?


Never mind the common sense caveat. How about just plain stupidity? Heart disease can rise until kingdom come in the younger age groups and it will still be mostly old folks who will die of heart disease. This will be true a thousand years from now no matter how much heart disease the young have.

You do not know the hiking community at all. Restrictions are
on the way everywhere. Europeans like you should be used to restrictions. It is
here in America where we have a problem with them.


Another assertion without facts. Where I live new areas are being opened up and Scotland passed Right to Roam legislation recently which gives everyone access by NON POWERED MEANS. So, based on the evidence, things seem to be going the way I predict.


Since the Scots and the English are as dumb and careless as everyone else in the world, it is just a matter of time until the “opening up” will be the “closing down”. You can always count on human nature to take things to an extreme and thereby lose whatever initial freedoms were extended.

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


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  #42  
Old August 13th 13, 01:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Is Mike Andaman finally dead?

On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 22:47:58 -0500, "EdwardDolan"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]

Before any action can be produced there must be reams and reams of talk. That is the way of democracy.


Democracy? Really? The concept of democracy ( the counting of noses to

provide an answer) would seems to be somewhat of a redundancy to
someone who advocates the removal of publicly owned and maintained
property from the public's use. Dictatorial would seem a more accurate
term to use.

Democracy in the way of discourse. That is how you persuade others to change their views and ultimately their behavior. The most efficient way to run anything is via dictatorship (tyranny). However, this can lead to huge mistakes being made. A good example of an efficient state was the Soviet Union, at least when it came to military power. But they made every mistake in the book in every other way.


No. You are wrong again. Democracy is " a political system in which
the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to
represent them".

Now, having said that there may be discussion but that is not
restricted to a democracy. Discussion is possible in a dictatorship,
of course it is. Or are you one of these silly people that believe
that one single individual can dominate an entire nation?

Did you know that some mountain bikers are stating that they are

giving up riding their bikes on hiking trails. Why? Mr. Vandeman has
convinced them that it is too dangerous. Mr. Vandeman is a gentlemen
and wants to save mountain bikers from themselves. Unlike me, I
rejoice whenever a mountain biker manages to kill himself while riding
his bike on a hiking trail. It is good riddance to bad rubbish!

I see..... But I can't really grasp how threatening someone with a saw

is intended to save them.

Mr. Vandeman is very active posting news items about mountain bike accidents. However, it makes for boring reading since all the accidents are the same. Can you guess what the accidents are?

But perhaps that is similar to the democratic action of preventing

someone from using publicly owned property.

Since when is publicly owned property for the free use of one and all. Have you never heard of the tragedy of the commons?

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

--
Cheers,

John B.
  #43  
Old August 13th 13, 03:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
Blackblade
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Posts: 274
Default Is Mike Andaman finally dead?

The conclusion did not follow from what was reported as the
issues. One person’s perceptions is another person’s facts. The only report I
read was what you posted in your message. I got the gist of it just fine. We
disagree on what is important and what is trivial.


Well, if you didn't bother to read the report, as I suspected, what do you expect ?? Read the whole thing ... the researcher actually bothered to do some real research and measure what was really happening. It was on that basis that he reported that the issues were perceptual rather than real.

The noise is the number one issue as any hiker would tell you.
Power and weight do not matter - speed does! Both bikes and motorcycles will do
much more damage to trails than hikers. I still want to know why motorcycles do
not have as much right to trail use as bikes?


Of course power and weight matter ... that's WHY motorbikes are so more damaging to the environment.

However, it appears that you're arguing against yourself again; motorbikes travel a lot lot faster than mountainbikes. Average speeds for a mountainbike ride will be in the 8mph - 12mph range, more than double that for a motorbike.

All of these issues; power, weight, speed and noise create a clear distinction between motorbikes and mountainbikes and therefore justify treating access for them differently. QED.

Are you actually able to absorb new facts.


Only when the facts are relevant to the issue. Who cares about
power and weight when all that matters in that particular configuration is
speed. Why not try to absorb that fact!


Nice way to demonstrate my point again; no, you can't absorb new facts clearly.

I've shown WHY power and weight matter and, as stated above, speed and noise are two additional clear differentiators.

  #44  
Old August 13th 13, 04:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
Blackblade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 274
Default Is Mike Andaman finally dead?

Riding your bicycle on a hiking trail is an ultimate evil.

I’ll let Stalin, Pol Pot, Ceaucescu, Amin, Mugabe and co know

:-).* What a silly overdramatisation.


Everything is in a context. We are not discussing politics, but


bicycles on trails.


Then perhaps you should remember that before making such

foolish, overdramatic statements ?

???


We are discussing bicycles on trails Ed ... this is not the most pressing of issues the world faces. Get some perspective.

You are simply taking advantage like all opportunists of the
lack of proper regulations. Where is the virtue in that?


So, not enough of a gentleman to accept that your accusation of 'scofflaw' was in error ?

This is getting foolish; I have addressed all of these points

again and again.* Come on, surely you can come up with one actual FACT, as
opposed to simple opinion, to backup your position ?

*

“What’s the matter – can’t walk?” – Ed Dolan


I do sometimes. I don't want to others. Why ? Can't you ride ??

Never mind the common sense caveat. How about just plain
stupidity? Heart disease can rise until kingdom come in the younger age groups
and it will still be mostly old folks who will die of heart disease. This will
be true a thousand years from now no matter how much heart disease the young
have.


I think you need to think more carefully. If the average life expectancy of the current generation falls BELOW that of the current one then people won't get to be as old, on average, as they are now.

And, irrespective of your logical errors, the core point is that the current generation is getting insufficient cardiac exercise which is leading to shorter life expectancy and younger health problems. It is for this reason that Mountainbiking is a net positive in terms of lifespan despite the rare deaths from the activity.

Since the Scots and the English are as dumb and careless as
everyone else in the world, it is just a matter of time until the “opening up”
will be the “closing down”. You can always count on human nature to take things
to an extreme and thereby lose whatever initial freedoms were
extended.


I doubt it. The government just announced further investment to get people cycling and local councils are now advised to have Cycling Commissioners who will, amongst other things, work on securing access and routes safe for cyclists.

Cycling is NOT a problem ... on or off road. It leads to a healthier population, impacts the natural environment about the same as hiking and takes motorised vehicles off the roads.
  #45  
Old August 22nd 13, 01:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 538
Default Is Mike Andaman finally dead?

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

The conclusion did not follow from what was reported as the
issues. One person’s perceptions is another person’s facts. The only report I
read was what you posted in your message. I got the gist of it just fine. We
disagree on what is important and what is trivial.


Well, if you didn't bother to read the report, as I suspected, what do you expect ?? Read the whole thing ... the researcher actually bothered to do some real research and measure what was really happening. It was on that basis that he reported that the issues were perceptual rather than real.


I am too busy contemplating my navel to read any mountain biker propaganda.

The noise is the number one issue as any hiker would tell you.
Power and weight do not matter - speed does! Both bikes and motorcycles will do
much more damage to trails than hikers. I still want to know why motorcycles do
not have as much right to trail use as bikes?


Of course power and weight matter ... that's WHY motorbikes are so more damaging to the environment.


Mountain bikers do not care about damage to the trails and the environment any more than do motorcyclists. Only hikers care about that sort of thing.

However, it appears that you're arguing against yourself again; motorbikes travel a lot lot faster than mountainbikes. Average speeds for a mountainbike ride will be in the 8mph - 12mph range, more than double that for a motorbike.


Mountain bikes travel a lot, lot faster than walkers. Try to make some sense from time to time why don’t you!

All of these issues; power, weight, speed and noise create a clear distinction between motorbikes and mountainbikes and therefore justify treating access for them differently. QED.


Motorcyclists would not agree with you about their machines anymore than hikers agree with you about your machines. The reason that motorcycles are banned from trails is the speed issue and the noise issue. The speed issue also applies to mountain bikes. Duh!

Are you actually able to absorb new facts.


Only when the facts are relevant to the issue. Who cares about
power and weight when all that matters in that particular configuration is
speed. Why not try to absorb that fact!


Nice way to demonstrate my point again; no, you can't absorb new facts clearly.


I've shown WHY power and weight matter and, as stated above, speed and noise are two additional clear differentiators.


Speed also applies to mountain bikes. As a group all bikers tend to be rowdy and noisy besides. The fact is that not many motorcyclists would agree with you about how you see their machines. They see them as not all that different than bikes. After all, they are both machines (mechanical contrivances) – not the same thing as walking at all.

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


  #46  
Old August 22nd 13, 02:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 538
Default Is Mike Andaman finally dead?

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Edward Dolan wrote:

Riding your bicycle on a hiking trail is an ultimate evil.

[...]

We are discussing bicycles on trails Ed ... this is not the most pressing of issues the world faces. Get some perspective.


Get some context. I assume I am not talking to an idiot – or am I?
[...]

“What’s the matter – can’t walk?” – Ed Dolan


I do sometimes. I don't want to others. Why ? Can't you ride ??


Ride your god damn bike on the roads and streets. That is what they are there for.
[...]

Since the Scots and the English are as dumb and careless as
everyone else in the world, it is just a matter of time until the “opening up”
will be the “closing down”. You can always count on human nature to take things
to an extreme and thereby lose whatever initial freedoms were
extended.


I doubt it. The government just announced further investment to get people cycling and local councils are now advised to have Cycling Commissioners who will, amongst other things, work on securing access and routes safe for cyclists.


Routes “safer for cyclists” will mean that most hiking trails will be closed to them. Too dangerous.

Cycling is NOT a problem ... on or off road. It leads to a healthier population, impacts the natural environment about the same as hiking and takes motorised vehicles off the roads.


The above statement is nothing but liberal propaganda. Love that bit about taking motorized vehicles off the road. What a laugh that is. Traffic just gets worse and worse with every passing year. Eventually it will be total gridlock. The only thing that will take traffic off the roads is $100 a gallon price for gas and/or we are all choking to death on the fumes.

All your arguments for mountain biking on hiking trails fail the test of reasonableness. You are devoid of common sense - and everyday realities completely elude you. Because of these deficiencies, you will never be able to persuade hikers that mountain bikes have any place on hiking trails. I am confidant that Mr. Vandeman’s and my views will prevail in the end.

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


  #47  
Old September 3rd 13, 02:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
Blackblade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 274
Default Is Mike Andaman finally dead?

Well, if you didn't bother to read the report, as I suspected,
what do you expect ??* Read the whole thing ... the researcher actually
bothered to do some real research and measure what was really happening.*
It was on that basis that he reported that the issues were perceptual rather
than real.

I am too busy contemplating my navel to read any mountain
biker propaganda.


Firstly, it's not propaganda, it's research ... proper research where premises and conclusions are tested rather than simply asserted. Secondly, whilst you are of course entitled to read what you wish, perhaps you should not refer to material you haven't bothered to read.

Mountain bikers do not care about damage to the trails and the
environment any more than do motorcyclists. Only hikers care about that sort of
thing.


Care to justify this or is this more of your 'common sense' ?

Mountain bikes travel a lot, lot faster than walkers. Try to
make some sense from time to time why don’t you!


They travel about twice as fast, on average, as hikers. That's not so great a difference; 4mph vs 8mph.

Speed also applies to mountain bikes. As a group all bikers
tend to be rowdy and noisy besides.


More assertions Ed ... and backup for this prejudice ?
  #48  
Old September 4th 13, 01:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Is Mike Andaman finally dead?

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 06:25:28 -0700 (PDT), Blackblade
wrote:

Well, if you didn't bother to read the report, as I suspected,

what do you expect ??* Read the whole thing ... the researcher actually
bothered to do some real research and measure what was really happening.*
It was on that basis that he reported that the issues were perceptual rather
than real.

I am too busy contemplating my navel to read any mountain
biker propaganda.


Firstly, it's not propaganda, it's research ... proper research where premises and conclusions are tested rather than simply asserted. Secondly, whilst you are of course entitled to read what you wish, perhaps you should not refer to material you haven't bothered to read.

Mountain bikers do not care about damage to the trails and the
environment any more than do motorcyclists. Only hikers care about that sort of
thing.


Care to justify this or is this more of your 'common sense' ?

Mountain bikes travel a lot, lot faster than walkers. Try to
make some sense from time to time why don’t you!


They travel about twice as fast, on average, as hikers. That's not so great a difference; 4mph vs 8mph.

Speed also applies to mountain bikes. As a group all bikers
tend to be rowdy and noisy besides.


More assertions Ed ... and backup for this prejudice ?


You are arguing with a bigot and bigot's do not think rationally
..
--
Cheers,

John B.
  #49  
Old September 4th 13, 01:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 538
Default Is Mike Andaman finally dead?

"Blackblade" wrote in message ...

Well, if you didn't bother to read the report, as I suspected,

what do you expect ?? Read the whole thing ... the researcher actually
bothered to do some real research and measure what was really happening.
It was on that basis that he reported that the issues were perceptual rather
than real.

I am too busy contemplating my navel to read any mountain
biker propaganda.


Firstly, it's not propaganda, it's research ... proper research where premises and conclusions are tested rather than simply asserted. Secondly, whilst you are of course entitled to read what you wish, perhaps you should not refer to material you haven't bothered to read.


I only referred to what was in your post. There was nothing wrong with the premises, but the conclusions were all wacky. Just goes to show how things work when you have already made up your mind. It works that way with facts too when you select only those facts that matter to you.

Mountain bikers do not care about damage to the trails and the
environment any more than do motorcyclists. Only hikers care about that sort of
thing.


Care to justify this or is this more of your 'common sense' ?


Cyclists and motorcyclists are constantly fussing with trails to make them easier to ride. After all, going on wheels is not the same thing as putting one foot in front of another. Glad I was able to clear that up for you. Common sense wins over nonsense every time.

Mountain bikes travel a lot, lot faster than walkers. Try to
make some sense from time to time why don’t you!


They travel about twice as fast, on average, as hikers. That's not so great a difference; 4mph vs 8mph.


Bikes are much faster than walking although it depends to some extent on the nature of the trail. I would guess bikes are about 5 to 10 times faster on a flat trail and as a result can cover much greater distances. That is also not a good thing. It should take some time and effort to reach a great distance on a trail.

Speed also applies to mountain bikes. As a group all bikers
tend to be rowdy and noisy besides.


More assertions Ed ... and backup for this prejudice ?


Hikers often walk alone. Bikers ride in groups. They are like children. All they care about is competing with one another and having a good time – which means having a noisy time. Morons never think they can have a good time unless they are making lots of noise. Their true home is an amusement park, not a National Park.

Trails in natural areas are for communing with nature – period. Anyone who is on a park or wilderness trail for any other purpose is a fool and a jackass.

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great


  #50  
Old September 4th 13, 02:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
EdwardDolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 538
Default Is Mike Andaman finally dead?

"John B." wrote in message ...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 06:25:28 -0700 (PDT), Blackblade
wrote:
[...]

More assertions Ed ... and backup for this prejudice ?


You are arguing with a bigot and bigot's do not think rationally.


You do not think at all – just another garden variety name caller ... like all who would defend cycling on hiking trails.

Mountain bikers are the scum of the earth. And you, John B., are a flatulent hippopotamus. I urge you to cease with your name calling and strive to become a Saint like Me!

Ed Dolan the Great
aka
Saint Edward the Great

 




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