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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies by Andre Jute Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and other Americans, touting for business for their own industry, suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655 I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on, eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic roots. Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The pricelist, here, http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655 reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up, getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box "pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825. No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down, and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro. Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate. So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and fork with pinstriping. GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD -- FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE! Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts, and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050 cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or garden frame, that is for a very special frame. Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920) http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts) http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...c9 b6796b2ac5 and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork with a distinguished road pedigree. WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD, GO UPMARKET Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars, essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything. A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson, fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest. You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more sane. Waterford is a joke. IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE? There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames appear to be bog-standard and dull. The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass American stupidity.) A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty commonplace really. What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte. Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell. Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit netsites. For any other use approach the author. |
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#2
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
Andre Jute wrote:
WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies by Andre Jute Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and other Americans, touting for business for their own industry, suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655 I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on, eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic roots. Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The pricelist, here, http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655 reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up, getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box "pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825. No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down, and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro. Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate. So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and fork with pinstriping. GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD -- FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE! Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts, and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050 cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or garden frame, that is for a very special frame. Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920) http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts) http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...c9 b6796b2ac5 and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork with a distinguished road pedigree. WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD, GO UPMARKET Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars, essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything. A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson, fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest. You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more sane. Waterford is a joke. IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE? There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames appear to be bog-standard and dull. The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass American stupidity.) A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty commonplace really. What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte. Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell. Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit netsites. For any other use approach the author. Godiva? Way too complex. Nice clean Waterford open track frame: http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html Since you don't get it,you may as well not get it in a seductively pretty format with polished stainless lugwork. YMMV. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#3
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 25, 1:40*am, AMuzi wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies by Andre Jute Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and other Americans, touting for business for their own industry, suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model: *http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655 *I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on, eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic roots. Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The pricelist, *here, http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655 *reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up, getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box "pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825. No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down, and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro. Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate. So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and fork with pinstriping. GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD -- FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE! Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts, and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050 cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or garden frame, that is for a very special frame. Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920) http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp *or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts) http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...osCsid=68fd3b5... *and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork with a distinguished road pedigree. WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD, GO UPMARKET Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars, essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything. A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson, fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest. You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more sane. Waterford is a joke. IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE? There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames appear to be bog-standard and dull. The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html *is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass American stupidity.) A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty commonplace really. What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte. Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell. Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit netsites. For any other use approach the author. Godiva? Way too complex. Let's forget the Godiva. There's nothing special about it to justify even the base price, never mind tarting it up. Especially now that we do have something special to look at: Nice clean Waterford open track frame:http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen..html Okay. Very nice. A colour I love too. And excellent photographs to perve over. What does "open" mean in your sentence above. Since you don't get it,you may as well not get it in a seductively pretty format with polished stainless lugwork. Chuckle. I get it. But the article above is about getting it from a solder-sniffer with prices anchored in reality. I'm not even asking, because I can't. Though I imagine that's someone's well-used and well- loved Waterford and very much not for sale. YMMV. I wish you'd explain in full to some of the younger hotheads what the ramifications of that phrase are. -- Andrew Muzi * www.yellowjersey.org/ * Open every day since 1 April, 1971 I had a ride on an old Bob Jackson the other day, a guy I met on the road who was about my size. He bought it on the net for his collection and was just riding to find out what is wrong with it. Not my sort of bike but there was a sense of occasion about riding even an abused example. Wavy Hetchins (?spelling) chainstays. Whole thing still solid and stiff, which surprised me somewhat as the tubes all seemed very slender indeed. Andre Jute I'm not a know-all. I don't need to be. I know who to ask. |
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WHY AN ANDRE JUTE POST IS A JOKE
Andrew Muzi wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies by Andre Jute Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and other Americans, touting for business for their own industry, suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655 I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on, eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic roots. [...] Godiva? Way too complex. Nice clean Waterford open track frame: http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html Since you don't get it,you may as well not get it in a seductively pretty format with polished stainless lugwork. YMMV. What am I missing here? How is the Godiva more complex, other than cable guide braze-ons? For value, I think this is much better: http://www.gunnarbikes.com/crosshairs.php. $1150 for a custom geometry frame. -- Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007 LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll |
#5
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
Andre Jute wrote:
On Apr 25, 1:40 am, AMuzi wrote: Andre Jute wrote: WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies by Andre Jute Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and other Americans, touting for business for their own industry, suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655 I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on, eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic roots. Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The pricelist, here, http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655 reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up, getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box "pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825. No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down, and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro. Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate. So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and fork with pinstriping. GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD -- FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE! Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts, and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050 cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or garden frame, that is for a very special frame. Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920) http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts) http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...osCsid=68fd3b5... and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork with a distinguished road pedigree. WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD, GO UPMARKET Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars, essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything. A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson, fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest. You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more sane. Waterford is a joke. IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE? There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames appear to be bog-standard and dull. The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass American stupidity.) A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty commonplace really. What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte. Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell. Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit netsites. For any other use approach the author. Godiva? Way too complex. Let's forget the Godiva. There's nothing special about it to justify even the base price, never mind tarting it up. Especially now that we do have something special to look at: Nice clean Waterford open track frame:http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html Okay. Very nice. A colour I love too. And excellent photographs to perve over. What does "open" mean in your sentence above. I don't know either. Maybe it has something to do with where the handlebar tape stops. |
#6
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
Carl Sundquist wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: On Apr 25, 1:40 am, AMuzi wrote: Andre Jute wrote: WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies by Andre Jute Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and other Americans, touting for business for their own industry, suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655 I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on, eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic roots. Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The pricelist, here, http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655 reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up, getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box "pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825. No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down, and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro. Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate. So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and fork with pinstriping. GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD -- FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE! Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts, and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050 cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or garden frame, that is for a very special frame. Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920) http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts) http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...osCsid=68fd3b5... and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork with a distinguished road pedigree. WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD, GO UPMARKET Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars, essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything. A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson, fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest. You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more sane. Waterford is a joke. IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE? There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames appear to be bog-standard and dull. The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass American stupidity.) A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty commonplace really. What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte. Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell. Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit netsites. For any other use approach the author. Godiva? Way too complex. Let's forget the Godiva. There's nothing special about it to justify even the base price, never mind tarting it up. Especially now that we do have something special to look at: Nice clean Waterford open track frame:http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html Okay. Very nice. A colour I love too. And excellent photographs to perve over. What does "open" mean in your sentence above. I don't know either. Maybe it has something to do with where the handlebar tape stops. We say "open frame" rather than "girl bike". (p.s to Carl: tape, double bumpers, saddle angle etc were explicitly specified in great detail.) -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#7
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WHY AN ANDRE JUTE POST IS A JOKE
Tom Sherman wrote:
Andrew Muzi wrote: Andre Jute wrote: WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies by Andre Jute Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and other Americans, touting for business for their own industry, suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model: http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655 I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on, eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic roots. [...] Godiva? Way too complex. Nice clean Waterford open track frame: http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html Since you don't get it,you may as well not get it in a seductively pretty format with polished stainless lugwork. YMMV. What am I missing here? How is the Godiva more complex, other than cable guide braze-ons? For value, I think this is much better: http://www.gunnarbikes.com/crosshairs.php. $1150 for a custom geometry frame. what's with this ridiculous steel obsession? this group has been grossly infected recently it seems. typically, aluminum is: cheaper stiffer - and thus more sable for non-freds lighter more corrosion resistant. is there some kind of myopia/ignorance-of-the-facts virus i've been missing out on? |
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 25, 2:57*am, AMuzi wrote:
Carl Sundquist wrote: Andre Jute wrote: On Apr 25, 1:40 am, AMuzi wrote: Andre Jute wrote: WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE An investigation consequent on being hounded by American roadies by Andre Jute Last year when I was shopping for a low stepover bike, Tom Sherman and other Americans, touting for business for their own industry, suggested I look at Waterford Cycles' Godiva model: *http://waterfordbikes.com/now/models.php?Model=655 *I looked, shuddered but said thanks politely, and moved on, eventually buying a German/Dutch crossframe mixte design with historic roots. Now a bunch of American roadies, led by Russell Seaton, have been hounding me for being different. Seaton cites the Waterford Godiva as the sort of bike I should have bought. All right, since these pushy roadies insist, let's look into a Waterford bike in more detail. The pricelist, *here, http://waterfordbikes.com/now/pricel...dels&Model=655 *reads like some kind of a sick joke. The bare frame with the cheapest lowest common denominator lugs costs $1800, a fork is $350 and up, getting the fork painted to match is another $125 (!). box "pinstriping" is $250, Rohloff dropouts $150, upgrade to decent Rohloff dropouts from Paragon another $150 (a total of $300 for Rohloff dropouts!). The total for the frame and fork is $2825. No, I'm not pulling your leg. I looked it up and wrote it all down, and then added it up carefully, several times. A Waterford frame with a fork and the cheapest lugs plus good Rohloff dropouts, with the single luxury of box pinstriping, will cost $2825 or 2130 Euro. Better lugs will drive the price up by a minimum of $225, and a machined brake bridge is $125. Remember these sums, for which you can buy a whole bike some places. The total of $350 for a lug upgrade and a carved brake bridge at Waterford is more than halfway to the price of a frame with superb lugs and paint from a distinguished bicycle maker with breeding, as I shall shortly demonstrate. So, $3175 or 2400 Euro for a rather commonplace Waterford frame and fork with pinstriping. GET A FRAME WITH BREEDING INSTEAD -- FOR A FRACTION OF THE WATERFORD PRICE! Hmm. In Germany, one can buy a Patria or Utopia custom-lugged steel frame, with fork in the same colour, and stainless Rohloff dropouts, and no thought of charging $350 extra (!) for the good lugs and the delightfully carved brake bridge, and box coachlining by a famous bikebuilder, for 700-850 Euro or a maximum of $1125, that's $2050 cheaper than the Waterford frame. And that is not for a common or garden frame, that is for a very special frame. Or, if you actually want the narrow-tyre road frame rather than the German frames for tourers with Big Apple balloons, you can go to Mercian for a Miss Mercian ($920) http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/frame_miss_mercia.asp *or to Bob Jackson (prices from $653, including Rohloff dropouts) http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/de...osCsid=68fd3b5... *and get a beautifully painted, arrow-lugged, luglined, frame and fork with a distinguished road pedigree. WITH THE SAVINGS OF NOT BUYING WATERFORD, GO UPMARKET Who in his right mind would choose a Waterford Godiva frame instead at over three times to five times the price of a Mercian or a Bob Jackson? A cyclist could have a Mercian or a Bob Jackson couriered to the street in front of Waterford Cycles, go ask them if they can match the pedigree, and still be ahead over two thousand dollars, essentially the price of outfitting a bike without ever asking the price of Rohloff/SON/BUMM/Brooks/Nitto/Ortlieb/the best of everything. A Waterford frame and fork alone costs as much as a completely equipped dream bike, with pedigree, from Mercian or Bob Jackson, fitted out with the best of everything. There is no contest. You're off your gourd, Russell Seaton, and your pals aren't any more sane. Waterford is a joke. IS WATERFORD'S GODIVA A MIXTE? There's another reason to give Waterford a big miss besides having no breeding and being grotesquely overpriced. It is that their frames appear to be bog-standard and dull. The same Russell Eaton we've already met as an example of someone crazed with roadie nationalism, also tells us that Waterford calling the Godiva a "mixte" frame is his excuse for taunting me that my Utopia Kranich unisex crossframe-mixte http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...20CYCLING.html *is a "girl's" bike. (I'm not even bothering to answer such crass American stupidity.) A mixte is a bicycle with two thinnish bars running from the head tube to the rear dropouts (or frame-ends, to be technically correct). The Godiva doesn't have these mixte bars and therefore isn't a mixte. The Godiva is a simple traditional parallelogram ladies' frame, pretty commonplace really. What Waterford actually says about the Godiva is a typical piece of advertising department weaselling: that it has "a classy mixte profile". In other words, Waterford knows the Godiva is not a mixte but is trying to claim for the Godiva the prestige or perhaps the cross-gender sales of the (unisex) mixte. Russell Seaton simply was too crazed with nationalist roadyism (or should that be rowdyism?) to comprehend that Waterford were intentionally misleading him. Poor Russell. Copyright © 2009 Andre Jute. Free to reprint on not-for-profit netsites. For any other use approach the author. Godiva? Way too complex. Let's forget the Godiva. There's nothing special about it to justify even the base price, never mind tarting it up. Especially now that we do have something special to look at: Nice clean Waterford open track frame:http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html Okay. Very nice. A colour I love too. And excellent photographs to perve over. What does "open" mean in your sentence above. I don't know either. Maybe it has something to do with where the handlebar tape stops. We say "open frame" rather than "girl bike". I certainly hope Seaton sees that. This thread is was created to educate him. (p.s to Carl: tape, double bumpers, saddle angle etc were explicitly specified in great detail.) Bumpers? (Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, TGIF and you're trying to get to the pub.) But Sheldon doesn't have bumpers in the glossary. -- AJ -- Andrew Muzi * www.yellowjersey.org/ * Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 25, 3:35*am, jim beam wrote:
Tom Sherman wrote: For value, I think this is much better: http://www.gunnarbikes.com/crosshairs.php. $1150 for a custom geometry frame. what's with this ridiculous steel obsession? *this group has been grossly infected recently it seems. That's why I called this thread WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE typically, aluminum is: cheaper stiffer - and thus more sable for non-freds lighter more corrosion resistant. is there some kind of myopia/ignorance-of-the-facts virus i've been missing out on? I have two aliminium bikes which are both eminently satisfactory except for one detail: the welding on one is ugly and on the other one, supposed to be smooth, it is still not smooth enough. Andre Jute "The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument instrument which must be protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo- Pelayo Ricart Medina |
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
Andre Jute wrote:
On Apr 25, 3:35�am, jim beam wrote: Tom Sherman wrote: For value, I think this is much better: http://www.gunnarbikes.com/crosshairs.php. $1150 for a custom geometry frame. what's with this ridiculous steel obsession? �this group has been grossly infected recently it seems. That's why I called this thread WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE typically, aluminum is: cheaper stiffer - and thus more sable for non-freds lighter more corrosion resistant. is there some kind of myopia/ignorance-of-the-facts virus i've been missing out on? I have two aliminium bikes which are both eminently satisfactory except for one detail: the welding on one is ugly that's an ignorant jobstian bull**** excuse. if the mechanicals are good and the microstructure good, that's all that matters to your ability to ride the damned thing. as a sex-object, susan boyle is positively porcine. as a singer, she's not half bad. and on the other one, supposed to be smooth, it is still not smooth enough. Andre Jute "The brain of an engineer is a delicate instrument instrument which must be protected against the unevenness of the ground." -- Wifredo- Pelayo Ricart Medina yeah, and the brains of non-engineers need boiling in brine and vinegar sometimes. |
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