installin mah brakes

OK, I've *tried* to soak up all the knowledge I can without bugging you
guys too much, but I just recieved my new brakes today and really want
to get in at least one decent ride this weekend, so here goes. These
are Tektro Oryx cantilevers, going on an 05 Cannondale CX with the stock
carbon fiber fork. These should be the same model brakes that the bike
originally came with, although I assume that they may have been revised
over the past few years.

1) when I attempt to install the cantilevers on the bosses on the fork,
there is a gap of about 3/32" between the brake and the flat part of the
boss. Is this OK? I tried tightening it down with one of the old bolts
but it didn't move any with what I felt was a reasonable amount of
torque - in fact with the bolt tight it felt solidly mounted, just had
that unsightly gap. Is this OK?

2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?

thanks again...

nate

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On Apr 18, 4:00*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
OK, I've *tried* to soak up all the knowledge I can without bugging you
guys too much, but I just recieved my new brakes today and really want
to get in at least one decent ride this weekend, so here goes. *These
are Tektro Oryx cantilevers, going on an 05 Cannondale CX with the stock
carbon fiber fork. *These should be the same model brakes that the bike
originally came with, although I assume that they may have been revised
over the past few years.

1) when I attempt to install the cantilevers on the bosses on the fork,
there is a gap of about 3/32" between the brake and the flat part of the
boss. *Is this OK? *I tried tightening it down with one of the old bolts
but it didn't move any with what I felt was a reasonable amount of
torque - in fact with the bolt tight it felt solidly mounted, just had
that unsightly gap. *Is this OK?

2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?

thanks again...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Yes and yes.

On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:


2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?


yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

landotter wrote:
On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:


2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?



yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.


Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
landotter wrote:

On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:


2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?



yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.


Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

nate


I just realized that i phrased my original question badly, such that I
am still confused even given your answer - which end of the pad do I
want to contact the rim first?

1) the leading edge - which would be the *rear* of the pad

or

2) the actual *front* of the pad?

or does it not really matter, just that the pad should not contact the
rim squarely?

Only reason I am making such a big deal about it was that the old pads
were worn flat and had a SEVERE squeak, and I'd like to solve several
different problems all at once here.

I may just run the bike up to LBS in the morning anyway as I need some
ferrules, adjuster barrels, etc. to make this all right and the guy may
be able to set it up quickly and inexpensively, who knows. Doesn't hurt
to ask. The LBS with all the shiny new stuff is a couple miles away,
but I have one close enough that i can even carry the bike on my
shoulder that far, and that may be the better place for this kind of
issue anyway, it's sort of a hole in the wall with all sorts of crap all
over the place and tons of parts bikes piled up out back.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Apr 18, 10:38 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:
landotter wrote:

On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?

yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

Thanks for the tip, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds easier than
trying to snug it up with the brakes released.

nate

I just realized that i phrased my original question badly, such that I
am still confused even given your answer - which end of the pad do I
want to contact the rim first?


Think about how the brake is going to be torqued--it will be pulled
forward, so the front bit needs to be a couple mm's closer. Upon hard
braking, the pads will be deformed and pulled parallel to the rim. Toe
in not only helps squeal and noise, but done properly really affects
the ability to modulate, IMO. When you've worn your pads down a bit
after a few months, you can swap them from side to side if the wear is
slightly diagonal, BTW.

Go to parktool.com for further info.

On Apr 18, 8:38 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
The LBS with all the shiny new stuff is a couple miles away,
but I have one close enough that i can even carry the bike on my
shoulder that far, and that may be the better place for this kind of
issue anyway, it's sort of a hole in the wall with all sorts of crap all
over the place and tons of parts bikes piled up out back.


I love shops like that. I worked at one all through high school.
Before it was a bike shop, it was a hardware store, so we still had
brass pipe fittings, a paint shaker, and I'm pretty sure we were the
only bike shop in town that could duplicate keys while you wait.

Hank wrote:
On Apr 18, 8:38 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

The LBS with all the shiny new stuff is a couple miles away,
but I have one close enough that i can even carry the bike on my
shoulder that far, and that may be the better place for this kind of
issue anyway, it's sort of a hole in the wall with all sorts of crap all
over the place and tons of parts bikes piled up out back.



I love shops like that. I worked at one all through high school.
Before it was a bike shop, it was a hardware store, so we still had
brass pipe fittings, a paint shaker, and I'm pretty sure we were the
only bike shop in town that could duplicate keys while you wait.

I didn't mean that in a bad way, I feel the same way about auto parts
stores. I hate new parts stores where the kid behind the counter only
knows how to look stuff up in a computer. Sample conversation:

Me: Do you have any Champion RJ12YCs or Autolite 437s?

Counter guy: What kind of car do you have?

Me: It's a '55 Studebaker Commander, but the engine is out of a '63 Avanti.

Counter guy: Studebaker? Who made that?

Me: (facepalm)

Give me a store with creaky wood floors and some crusty old guy smoking
a cigarette behind the counter any day.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Apr 19, 1:59*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

Give me a store with creaky wood floors and some crusty old guy smoking
a cigarette behind the counter any day.

Was at a car dealer a few weeks ago buying brake adjusters. The kid
behind the counter did an ok job as it was pretty straight forward.
Type in my chassis number, and drill down to brake parts. Get a part-
number, get a bin number, and a price. Then a crusty old guy with a
cigarette behind his ear suggested he punch in a different year and
body style, skipping the chassis number. After the drill-down, same
part-number, same bin, different cheaper price.

I think the floor was wood, but it was hard to see it through the
grime. Cigarette man gave me a wink, and I was on my way.

Joseph

On Apr 19, 2:22*am, landotter wrote:
On Apr 18, 6:00 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:



2) I've seen references to "toe in" when setting the pads but the
concept is still unclear to me exactly what it's referring to - does
this mean that I should set the pad so that the leading edge or front
(of the bike) surface of the pad should contact the rim slightly before
the rear?

yeah, because the force of braking will pull and twist the pad and arm
a bit. If you don't have toe in, you can get chatter and squeal. A fat
postal rubber band around the back part of the pad is a good way to
estimate the toe in when snugging things up.

I use skinny coins at the rear of the pad and just clamp the whole
thing against the rim with one hand, and tighten with the other. That
keeps the pads nice and square to the rim.

Joseph