#11
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Truing a wheel
Geoff Lock wrote:
I have had a problem truing my rear wheel and so I saved up some money and got myself a truing stand and a dishing tool. Having these tools will make me an expert wheelbuilder - or so I thought. It'll help you get it closer to the mark than otherwise, but it won't make you an expert. I have also "carefully" read Sheldon Brown's tutorial on wheelbuilding (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html), so I am now ready for ANYTHING. Not even that. It's said that wheel building and/or truing, is an art. I never believed that, as if you follow the procedures, it has to work. A bit of experience later, I bowed to the fact it probably is an art after all. Think of it this way: It's NOT a rubik's cube, where you can follow a set sequence of instruction for every state you're likely to encounter. When the puzzle is complete, you sit back satisfied that you didn't have to peel off the stickers and undo the screws to "solve" it. Wheel building involves peeling off stickers and undoing screws as a matter of procedure before you can hope to solve it. Practice is the key. The more you practice, the better you get. I've trued a few wheels in my time, and laced and built a wheel from scratch once. All have been successful (well, eventually), though I'm still embarrassed as to how long it takes. I have yet to even come close to truing a steel wheel so far. Aluminium makes it so much easier. I've been told it's the same, but a bit harder because steel is less pliable. I would argue the "bit harder" is more like "bloody impossible", but since I no longer own any steel rims, it ain't my problem any more. :-) Now, 4hrs later, I have given up, loosen all my carefully tightened spokes and my wheel is now ****ed!! DO YOU HEAR ME?? IT IS ****ED!!! HOW IN THE HELL AM I GONNA GET AROUND TOMORROW, EH?? If you're expecting a truing jig is going to do the job for that ride tomorrow, but that's not going to happen if you haven't practised. I am no closer to that elusive round and straight wheel Practise. There's no easy way out on this one. -- Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue... |
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#12
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Truing a wheel
Geoff Lock wrote:
On 8/12/2010 10:59 AM, terryc wrote: Geoff Lock wrote: I am no closer to that elusive round and straight wheel New materials, yes. Old materials very, very hard. I suspect that is my real problem as I have one area on the wheel which seems flatter - almost as though that section has been bumped real hard I've never been able to remove stuff like that by truing. strip rim down and try a 3 point vice action is the best you can do. I grab a coupla of spokes on each side and squeeze. Try looking for the groups of four, a pair either side and squeezing them. any adjust ment affects both side. Also, did you say pretzel? at some stage you have to start letting turns off from the other side. Ideally they all sing the same note when you pling them. |
#13
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Truing a wheel
On 8/12/2010 10:42 PM, terryc wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote: On 8/12/2010 10:59 AM, terryc wrote: Geoff Lock wrote: I suspect that is my real problem as I have one area on the wheel which seems flatter - almost as though that section has been bumped real hard I've never been able to remove stuff like that by truing. strip rim down and try a 3 point vice action is the best you can do. Knowing me, I'll probably crush the rim and make it worse! I think I rather live with it for a while until I can afford new rims. I grab a coupla of spokes on each side and squeeze. Also, did you say pretzel? at some stage you have to start letting turns off from the other side. Ideally they all sing the same note when you pling them. Hm, pretzel is actually a very good description of my efforts That plinging bizzo you are talking about is lost on me becos I am pretty hopeless musically - I mean a pling is a pling, right? A plong could be a pling which just wants to be different and being the nice fellow that I am, I tend to let things be (or should that be "let thongs be") Seriously speaking though, I suspect that plucking the spokes only work if the rim is round to start with. I vaguely recall the physics of resonance, length of string/spoke, tension, blah blah blah. |
#14
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Truing a wheel
On 8/12/2010 9:41 PM, John Tserkezis wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote: I have had a problem truing my rear wheel and so I saved up some money and got myself a truing stand and a dishing tool. Having these tools will make me an expert wheelbuilder - or so I thought. It'll help you get it closer to the mark than otherwise, but it won't make you an expert. Don't I know it now, brother, don't I know it now I have also "carefully" read Sheldon Brown's tutorial on wheelbuilding (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html), so I am now ready for ANYTHING. Not even that. It's said that wheel building and/or truing, is an art. I never believed that, as if you follow the procedures, it has to work. I believe it, I believe it! A bit of experience later, I bowed to the fact it probably is an art after all. Think of it this way: It's NOT a rubik's cube, where you can follow a set sequence of instruction for every state you're likely to encounter. When the puzzle is complete, you sit back satisfied that you didn't have to peel off the stickers and undo the screws to "solve" it. Compared to truing a hweel, Rubik's Cube is a piece of **** Wheel building involves peeling off stickers and undoing screws as a matter of procedure before you can hope to solve it. Practice is the key. The more you practice, the better you get. I've trued a few wheels in my time, and laced and built a wheel from scratch once. All have been successful (well, eventually), though I'm still embarrassed as to how long it takes. I was afraid someone would say that dreaded word "practice". I have yet to even come close to truing a steel wheel so far. Aluminium makes it so much easier. I've been told it's the same, but a bit harder because steel is less pliable. I would argue the "bit harder" is more like "bloody impossible", but since I no longer own any steel rims, it ain't my problem any more. :-) My demented sense of logic tells me that aluminium should be harder to true than steel becos it is softer and thus harder to keep its shape under load. Having said that, I have only steel rims on the old bike and it is still a ******* to to true steel rims anyway. I might save up for a set of aluminium rims to see what the difference is. Now, 4hrs later, I have given up, loosen all my carefully tightened spokes and my wheel is now ****ed!! DO YOU HEAR ME?? IT IS ****ED!!! HOW IN THE HELL AM I GONNA GET AROUND TOMORROW, EH?? If you're expecting a truing jig is going to do the job for that ride tomorrow, but that's not going to happen if you haven't practised. Damn! Stop it, you I am no closer to that elusive round and straight wheel Practise. There's no easy way out on this one. I give up! I will practise, ok? So far, Tomasso's suggestion to start on the vertical FIRST has paid some dividends. It only took me 3hrs and 59mins, on the second go, to get the rear wheel in a somewhat respectable shape. I mean a roundish looking pretzel CAN still go round and round - sort of Except for the little matter of that flat spot, which I am not gonna try to use that 3 point vice trick terryc suggested - I am too worried I'd screw it up. |
#15
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Truing a wheel
On 9/12/2010 1:37 AM, Geoff Lock wrote:
On 8/12/2010 9:41 PM, John Tserkezis wrote: Geoff Lock wrote: I have had a problem truing my rear wheel and so I saved up some money and got myself a truing stand and a dishing tool. Having these tools will make me an expert wheelbuilder - or so I thought. It'll help you get it closer to the mark than otherwise, but it won't make you an expert. Don't I know it now, brother, don't I know it now I have also "carefully" read Sheldon Brown's tutorial on wheelbuilding (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html), so I am now ready for ANYTHING. Not even that. It's said that wheel building and/or truing, is an art. I never believed that, as if you follow the procedures, it has to work. I believe it, I believe it! A bit of experience later, I bowed to the fact it probably is an art after all. Think of it this way: It's NOT a rubik's cube, where you can follow a set sequence of instruction for every state you're likely to encounter. When the puzzle is complete, you sit back satisfied that you didn't have to peel off the stickers and undo the screws to "solve" it. Compared to truing a hweel, Rubik's Cube is a piece of **** Wheel building involves peeling off stickers and undoing screws as a matter of procedure before you can hope to solve it. Practice is the key. The more you practice, the better you get. I've trued a few wheels in my time, and laced and built a wheel from scratch once. All have been successful (well, eventually), though I'm still embarrassed as to how long it takes. I was afraid someone would say that dreaded word "practice". Its cheaper to buy some wheels ready made than keep buggering them up, plus time etc. I get my wheels built in England - I select the hubs, spokes and rims and if I order enough stuff or they have the freight on special list its free. Cheaper get what I order top job. I then ride them in and re tension the wheel in my jig. |
#16
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Truing a wheel
On 9/12/2010 1:07 PM, Rob wrote:
On 9/12/2010 1:37 AM, Geoff Lock wrote: On 8/12/2010 9:41 PM, John Tserkezis wrote: Geoff Lock wrote: Its cheaper to buy some wheels ready made than keep buggering them up, plus time etc. I guess you are right but think of the joy you could have swearing at the injustices of the world and the conspiracies of the Fates against you as the wheel stays steadfastly and surely pretzel-like Think of all the beer you miss out on as you spend half the day tweaking and squeezing spokes. I get my wheels built in England - I select the hubs, spokes and rims and if I order enough stuff or they have the freight on special list its free. Cheaper get what I order top job. I then ride them in and re tension the wheel in my jig. I am not exactly a very rich person and I have to play the cards as I am dealt them Chucking away an old rim pains me somewhat. |
#17
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Truing a wheel
Geoff Lock wrote:
Seriously speaking though, I suspect that plucking the spokes only work if the rim is round to start with. I vaguely recall the physics of resonance, length of string/spoke, tension, blah blah blah. Sometimes it is just pling, pling, pling, plunk. Anything else and I need a tuning meter. |
#18
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Truing a wheel
On 9/12/2010 9:20 PM, terryc wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote: Seriously speaking though, I suspect that plucking the spokes only work if the rim is round to start with. I vaguely recall the physics of resonance, length of string/spoke, tension, blah blah blah. Sometimes it is just pling, pling, pling, plunk. Anything else and I need a tuning meter. Damn! No plongs? I could have sworn .... |
#19
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Truing a wheel
Geoff Lock wrote:
On 6/12/2010 10:14 AM, BT Humble wrote: Geoff Lock wrote: I am no closer to that elusive round and straight wheel It takes a lot of practice. I'm pretty crap at getting the radial (vertical) aspect right, I usually end up considering getting within 1mm as being adequate. :-) 1mm is damn good! So far, by starting on the vertical and getting it sorta right, and moving onto the lateral, and rechecking the vertical has worked for me (kind of), but I am still nowhere near that 1mm I think I have a flat bit on my rim. It's possible to correct that using spoke tension, but it'll be fiddly. BTH -- Posted at www.usenet.com.au |
#20
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Truing a wheel
Geoff Lock wrote:
My demented sense of logic tells me that aluminium should be harder to true than steel becos it is softer and thus harder to keep its shape under load. Having said that, I have only steel rims on the old bike and it is still a ******* to to true steel rims anyway. I might save up for a set of aluminium rims to see what the difference is. Now that I think about it, I've tried on two steel rims. By "tried" I mean failed abysmally in both cases. First was on a friend's front wheel, who was slalom riding before the bike threw him off when the front wheel tacoed. On the side of the path, while he was nursing bloodied palms and elbows, I got to work on the wheel. Along with an adjustable spanner, I bent the wheel back so it was less bent than before. It was still too buckled to have any front brakes, but enough to get home without a long walk. I don't know if you want to call this one a failure or success, as if it's bent that badly, you NEED to replace it anyway (which he did). It got him home. But when it started out in the shape of a taco, it's very little effort to make it "less bent", which makes it a failure. The second attempt was on a non-damaged wheel, just a minor truing adjustment after many years of use. I had no excuse on this one, and I still failed. To this day, I still think I made it worse. All other wheels I've done are Aluminium, and the worst of those was not as bad as steel. -- Clones are people two. |
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