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#41
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:29:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: Why would someone bother trying to recharge a cyclometer's CR2032? 1. It's ecologically correct to use rechargeable cells instead of polluting with throw away cells. 2. The ML2032 can be recharged with a solar charger such is the Logitech K750 solar keyboard. https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Logitech+K750+Keyboard+Battery+Replacement/23376 3. Lithium is scarce and getting expensive. http://fortune.com/2016/06/06/lithium-price-tesla-metal-future/ https://www.metalary.com/lithium-price/ 4. Lithium recycling is difficult and simply not being done. What recycling is done from electric car batteries is to recover the cobalt and nickel, not lithium. https://waste-management-world.com/a/1-the-lithium-battery-recycling-challenge 5. Using rechargeable batteries entitles me to display a "zero waste sticker". On the down side: 1. The ML2032 runs the bicycle computah for 1/4th the runtime of the CR2032 cell. 2. If you discharge the ML2032 to near zero, and let it sit for a week or more, you kill the battery. New CR2032 batteries cost maybe $2 each. I bought some even cheaper in bulk, and I've given them away to friends. About $0.11/ea in 100x quantity on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/131558748481 I've done some testing and found them as good or better than the name brand cells. Since a CR2032 will last 2-3 years and runs 4 times as long as a rechargeable ML2032 in a bicycle computer, this is not economically correct. Buying a special 2032 charger sounds as sensible as buying a special machine to re-sharpen your toothpicks. In about 1975, I almost invested in an on-demand toothpick lathe product. It produced custom toothpicks, from a variety of exotic woods, on demand. It was intended for high class restaurants and was fun to watch. I decided that nobody would pay for a toothpick, even if it was made from an endangered species, so I graciously declined. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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#42
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 21:44:10 -0700, sms wrote: What the ATX designers didn't take into account was that a lot of people plug computers into a power strip and turn off the power strip after they shut down the computer. So those 2032 cells were discharging way too fast. Things have improved. I have quite a few computers and motherboards in my office with CR2032 cells installed, but no power applied. Before delivering anything, I always check the voltage. Anything under 2.9V gets replaced with a new cell. My guess(tm) is that most of these last at least 3 years and often longer with no power applied. Curiously; I've had more RTC coin cell failures on in use PCs than on motherboards I've acquired from various sources that may not have been powered for years. |
#43
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On 2017-10-21 17:31, Oculus Lights wrote:
Here's my source for Panasonic 18650 LI cells: https://liionwholesale.com/?refer1=a...RoCFkgQAvD_BwE Support a good American distributor selling tested and verified batteries, at competitive prices even for small quantities. They also sell the 6 cell LUC brand charger and 4 bay Opus analyzer/charger. Well, I got an 8-cell pack for $20 including shipping. That's hard to beat. It has upped my full-DRL riding time to 4h and after about a year I don't notice any aging. Other than that I always try to buy local or at least domestic but I do draw the line when prices are egregious. For example, I am not paying $17/pair for brake pads when I can get better quality pads for $2/pair in Asia. Or my riding buddy who just bought tow (!) sets of brake pads for a Suzuki 650 dirt bike for all of 10 bucks. These test out in my Opus tester/charger at 3500+mAH in both charging and discharging. I test charging at 2A and drain at 1A,the Opus' limit. Burn time in the light is measured at each step from 9A max (in the 3000Extreme) down to 70mA. My 26650 come in large quantities through a direct rep from Heter, a humongous scale better maker in China who makes many cells for other big brand name electronic companies, who are considered to make their own, but don't. Minimum quantities in the 1000 lot size for the measured 5500mAH unbranded ones I get for the Oculus lights and sell competitively versus the Chinesium crap. Maybe ~1 in 100 might not be up to spec, and only two out of 1000 have been DOA. The blue Tenergy brand 26650, unchipped, sold in Fry's, with a black seal around the + end contact, are likely the same but at Fry's much higher retail price, but never know the true capacity without testing, draining, recharging, repeatedly for at least a hundred cycles. Another problem with Chinesium is that they tend not to last nearly as many charge cycles as authentic first quality batteries, regardless of the capacity when allegedly new. That versus one of the Heter's I've been charging and draining almost daily since February, that still test charges at 5500mAH. I don't buy at Fry's anymore, got my reasons. 26650 would be nice but so far I am happy with my 18650 clusters. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#44
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:42:44 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote: "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 21:44:10 -0700, sms wrote: What the ATX designers didn't take into account was that a lot of people plug computers into a power strip and turn off the power strip after they shut down the computer. So those 2032 cells were discharging way too fast. Things have improved. I have quite a few computers and motherboards in my office with CR2032 cells installed, but no power applied. Before delivering anything, I always check the voltage. Anything under 2.9V gets replaced with a new cell. My guess(tm) is that most of these last at least 3 years and often longer with no power applied. Curiously; I've had more RTC coin cell failures on in use PCs than on motherboards I've acquired from various sources that may not have been powered for years. It would be helpful if you described what you mean by "failure". My guess(tm) is that the heat inside the PC is causing some premature discharge: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/elevating_self_discharge There are no graphs on the page showing Li/MnO2 self-discharge, but I suspect it's similar to the other Li based cells. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#45
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message ... On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:42:44 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message . .. On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 21:44:10 -0700, sms wrote: What the ATX designers didn't take into account was that a lot of people plug computers into a power strip and turn off the power strip after they shut down the computer. So those 2032 cells were discharging way too fast. Things have improved. I have quite a few computers and motherboards in my office with CR2032 cells installed, but no power applied. Before delivering anything, I always check the voltage. Anything under 2.9V gets replaced with a new cell. My guess(tm) is that most of these last at least 3 years and often longer with no power applied. Curiously; I've had more RTC coin cell failures on in use PCs than on motherboards I've acquired from various sources that may not have been powered for years. It would be helpful if you described what you mean by "failure". As defined by; "CMOS checksum error - press F2 to enter setup". |
#47
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 10:12:13 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 11:29:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: Why would someone bother trying to recharge a cyclometer's CR2032? 1. It's ecologically correct to use rechargeable cells instead of polluting with throw away cells. 2. The ML2032 can be recharged with a solar charger such is the Logitech K750 solar keyboard. https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Logitech+K750+Keyboard+Battery+Replacement/23376 3. Lithium is scarce and getting expensive. http://fortune.com/2016/06/06/lithium-price-tesla-metal-future/ https://www.metalary.com/lithium-price/ 4. Lithium recycling is difficult and simply not being done. What recycling is done from electric car batteries is to recover the cobalt and nickel, not lithium. https://waste-management-world.com/a/1-the-lithium-battery-recycling-challenge 5. Using rechargeable batteries entitles me to display a "zero waste sticker". On the down side: 1. The ML2032 runs the bicycle computah for 1/4th the runtime of the CR2032 cell. 2. If you discharge the ML2032 to near zero, and let it sit for a week or more, you kill the battery. New CR2032 batteries cost maybe $2 each. I bought some even cheaper in bulk, and I've given them away to friends. About $0.11/ea in 100x quantity on eBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/131558748481 I've done some testing and found them as good or better than the name brand cells. Since a CR2032 will last 2-3 years and runs 4 times as long as a rechargeable ML2032 in a bicycle computer, this is not economically correct. Buying a special 2032 charger sounds as sensible as buying a special machine to re-sharpen your toothpicks. In about 1975, I almost invested in an on-demand toothpick lathe product. It produced custom toothpicks, from a variety of exotic woods, on demand. It was intended for high class restaurants and was fun to watch. I decided that nobody would pay for a toothpick, even if it was made from an endangered species, so I graciously declined. Note from a review: "These seem to be losing voltage without being used. I got six and I used two of them right away and they worked well, but now the ones I saved for future need have lost some of their voltage in storage. New they were 3v. But now after a year unused they are down to 2.55 v. I would suggest buying them as needed, and not in anticipation of need." |
#48
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 11:55:07 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-21 17:31, Oculus Lights wrote: Here's my source for Panasonic 18650 LI cells: https://liionwholesale.com/?refer1=a...RoCFkgQAvD_BwE Support a good American distributor selling tested and verified batteries, at competitive prices even for small quantities. They also sell the 6 cell LUC brand charger and 4 bay Opus analyzer/charger. Well, I got an 8-cell pack for $20 including shipping. That's hard to beat. It has upped my full-DRL riding time to 4h and after about a year I don't notice any aging. Other than that I always try to buy local or at least domestic but I do draw the line when prices are egregious. For example, I am not paying $17/pair for brake pads when I can get better quality pads for $2/pair in Asia. Or my riding buddy who just bought tow (!) sets of brake pads for a Suzuki 650 dirt bike for all of 10 bucks. These test out in my Opus tester/charger at 3500+mAH in both charging and discharging. I test charging at 2A and drain at 1A,the Opus' limit. Burn time in the light is measured at each step from 9A max (in the 3000Extreme) down to 70mA. My 26650 come in large quantities through a direct rep from Heter, a humongous scale better maker in China who makes many cells for other big brand name electronic companies, who are considered to make their own, but don't. Minimum quantities in the 1000 lot size for the measured 5500mAH unbranded ones I get for the Oculus lights and sell competitively versus the Chinesium crap. Maybe ~1 in 100 might not be up to spec, and only two out of 1000 have been DOA. The blue Tenergy brand 26650, unchipped, sold in Fry's, with a black seal around the + end contact, are likely the same but at Fry's much higher retail price, but never know the true capacity without testing, draining, recharging, repeatedly for at least a hundred cycles. Another problem with Chinesium is that they tend not to last nearly as many charge cycles as authentic first quality batteries, regardless of the capacity when allegedly new. That versus one of the Heter's I've been charging and draining almost daily since February, that still test charges at 5500mAH. I don't buy at Fry's anymore, got my reasons. 26650 would be nice but so far I am happy with my 18650 clusters. The length of time it took my CL2032 to wear out in my speedo/altimeter the rest of them in a six-pack were dead. |
#49
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 11:55:07 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
I don't buy at Fry's anymore, got my reasons. 26650 would be nice but so far I am happy with my 18650 clusters. Fry's is only good for buying things like laptops and TV's anymore. I don't know what happened to them. Perhaps they didn't understand pricing. |
#50
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Lithium Ion vs NiMh battery
On 2017-10-24 14:10, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 11:55:07 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-21 17:31, Oculus Lights wrote: Here's my source for Panasonic 18650 LI cells: https://liionwholesale.com/?refer1=a...RoCFkgQAvD_BwE Support a good American distributor selling tested and verified batteries, at competitive prices even for small quantities. They also sell the 6 cell LUC brand charger and 4 bay Opus analyzer/charger. Well, I got an 8-cell pack for $20 including shipping. That's hard to beat. It has upped my full-DRL riding time to 4h and after about a year I don't notice any aging. Other than that I always try to buy local or at least domestic but I do draw the line when prices are egregious. For example, I am not paying $17/pair for brake pads when I can get better quality pads for $2/pair in Asia. Or my riding buddy who just bought tow (!) sets of brake pads for a Suzuki 650 dirt bike for all of 10 bucks. These test out in my Opus tester/charger at 3500+mAH in both charging and discharging. I test charging at 2A and drain at 1A,the Opus' limit. Burn time in the light is measured at each step from 9A max (in the 3000Extreme) down to 70mA. My 26650 come in large quantities through a direct rep from Heter, a humongous scale better maker in China who makes many cells for other big brand name electronic companies, who are considered to make their own, but don't. Minimum quantities in the 1000 lot size for the measured 5500mAH unbranded ones I get for the Oculus lights and sell competitively versus the Chinesium crap. Maybe ~1 in 100 might not be up to spec, and only two out of 1000 have been DOA. The blue Tenergy brand 26650, unchipped, sold in Fry's, with a black seal around the + end contact, are likely the same but at Fry's much higher retail price, but never know the true capacity without testing, draining, recharging, repeatedly for at least a hundred cycles. Another problem with Chinesium is that they tend not to last nearly as many charge cycles as authentic first quality batteries, regardless of the capacity when allegedly new. That versus one of the Heter's I've been charging and draining almost daily since February, that still test charges at 5500mAH. I don't buy at Fry's anymore, got my reasons. 26650 would be nice but so far I am happy with my 18650 clusters. The length of time it took my CL2032 to wear out in my speedo/altimeter the rest of them in a six-pack were dead. My lights pull in almost 10 watts when at full brightness. A 2032 would not even last a millisecond. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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