The regrettable necessity for a set of torque wrenches on bikes

On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:

As for standard 15mm open-end pedal wrench, I never once saw a mechanic use an open end torque wrench, and historically, I just reefed on it a bit and called it good. Maybe others have a more scientific approach.

Much more scientific, though not required for pedals which can be set permanently by hand with a long T handle hex wrench. For total innocents, you put the hex on the short crossbar of the T into the bolt and pull on the long arm until it starts bending because, if you bought a good-quality tool, it is scaled to the maximum torque you can put on the size of fastener it fits.

But crank bolts need a little more application and for them a proper ergonomic approach, away from home, is to park your bike beside a kerb or a stone of the right height, sit on the bike, brace one pedal against the kerb or the stone to stop the axle turning when you apply force, apply leg power on the short on-bike tool set into the crank bolt on the other side. Or you can brace the pedal against a handy lamp or fence post.

I'm about 215 pounds, so I take care to keep my backsed planted firmly in the saddle, because otherwise I can easily over tighten bicycle components to the point of stripping them.

From a time when I suffered constant creaking from Shimano's Nexus cranksets (they're supposedly Shimano's upmarket gruppo for the Premium 8sp HGB but they're crap), I discovered that 10% over-spec torqueing won't necessarily strip the threads.

At home I use a big Bentley-vintage-size torque wrench with a loud click by hand, because the handle is long enough to make crank bolts easy-peasy. But after heart surgery, when I was as weak as a lamb, I decided I could afford another rare and wonderful torque wrench or several, but not another life, so I stepped on the pre-set big torque wrench as well, until it clicked; I had it calibrated afterwards by a competent engineering house and it was in perfect order, but the craftsman who did the calibration told me to keep my bum in the saddle because the lever arm with my 215lbs on it wouldn't necessarily break the torque wrench but because I wouldn't be able to take the load off quickly enough when it clicked and would almost certainly ruin the components.

***
More generally, these days you really require a 2-16Nm torque wrench, a tiny thing against my big torque wrench, because, with certain non-critical exceptions like pedal and crank bolts, all the other fittings on the modern best quality bike are heading downwards in their torque spec. When I first saw the spec for tightening the axles through a Rohloff hub gearbox and SON hub dynamo, they were so low, I thought they'd somehow been mistranslated, but they were the same in the German original. They're basically so low that an extra quarter turn would tighten them overspeed. Here's a fancy torque wrench for cafe racers (no, I don't have one -- I have better already, and if I buy another one, it will be electronic-digital):
https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...a-ii-2-16-pro/

There's a disconnect he you buy a bike made from expensively custom-pulled steel tubes and lugs from Ferrari's chassis-pusher, fitted with components of indestructible German agricultural machinery (the Rohloff gearbox wasn't designed for genteel tourers but for mud pluggers, and the SON is so heavy not from necessity but because it is German, and a damn good thing too), and then you're told you have to use a mickey mouse torque wrench every time you touch a bolt...

And I'm not even talking about plastic bikes, in which the days of "tight as a duck's [deleted] and then a couple of turns more" bike blacksmiths are long since over.

Andre Jute
No, that's not an artificial hand, Miss, that's my torque wrench

On 2018-09-30 15:33, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:

As for standard 15mm open-end pedal wrench, I never once saw a
mechanic use an open end torque wrench, and historically, I just
reefed on it a bit and called it good. Maybe others have a more
scientific approach.

Much more scientific, though not required for pedals which can be set
permanently by hand with a long T handle hex wrench. For total
innocents, you put the hex on the short crossbar of the T into the
bolt and pull on the long arm until it starts bending because, if you
bought a good-quality tool, it is scaled to the maximum torque you
can put on the size of fastener it fits.

But crank bolts need a little more application and for them a proper
ergonomic approach, away from home, is to park your bike beside a
kerb or a stone of the right height, sit on the bike, brace one pedal
against the kerb or the stone to stop the axle turning when you apply
force, apply leg power on the short on-bike tool set into the crank
bolt on the other side. Or you can brace the pedal against a handy
lamp or fence post.

I'm about 215 pounds, so I take care to keep my backsed planted
firmly in the saddle, because otherwise I can easily over tighten
bicycle components to the point of stripping them.

From a time when I suffered constant creaking from Shimano's Nexus
cranksets (they're supposedly Shimano's upmarket gruppo for the
Premium 8sp HGB but they're crap), I discovered that 10% over-spec
torqueing won't necessarily strip the threads.

At home I use a big Bentley-vintage-size torque wrench with a loud
click by hand, because the handle is long enough to make crank bolts
easy-peasy. But after heart surgery, when I was as weak as a lamb, I
decided I could afford another rare and wonderful torque wrench or
several, but not another life, so I stepped on the pre-set big torque
wrench as well, until it clicked; I had it calibrated afterwards by a
competent engineering house and it was in perfect order, but the
craftsman who did the calibration told me to keep my bum in the
saddle because the lever arm with my 215lbs on it wouldn't
necessarily break the torque wrench but because I wouldn't be able to
take the load off quickly enough when it clicked and would almost
certainly ruin the components.

*** More generally, these days you really require a 2-16Nm torque
wrench, a tiny thing against my big torque wrench, because, with
certain non-critical exceptions like pedal and crank bolts, all the
other fittings on the modern best quality bike are heading downwards
in their torque spec. When I first saw the spec for tightening the
axles through a Rohloff hub gearbox and SON hub dynamo, they were so
low, I thought they'd somehow been mistranslated, but they were the
same in the German original. They're basically so low that an extra
quarter turn would tighten them overspeed. Here's a fancy torque
wrench for cafe racers (no, I don't have one -- I have better
already, and if I buy another one, it will be electronic-digital):
https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...a-ii-2-16-pro/

There's a disconnect he you buy a bike made from expensively
custom-pulled steel tubes and lugs from Ferrari's chassis-pusher,
fitted with components of indestructible German agricultural
machinery (the Rohloff gearbox wasn't designed for genteel tourers
but for mud pluggers, and the SON is so heavy not from necessity but
because it is German, and a damn good thing too), and then you're
told you have to use a mickey mouse torque wrench every time you
touch a bolt...

And I'm not even talking about plastic bikes, in which the days of
"tight as a duck's [deleted] and then a couple of turns more" bike
blacksmiths are long since over.

Andre Jute No, that's not an artificial hand, Miss, that's my torque
wrench

What are the preferred torque wrenches these days, in the ~2-20Nm range?

On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 7:31:56 PM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote:
On 2018-09-30 15:33, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:

As for standard 15mm open-end pedal wrench, I never once saw a
mechanic use an open end torque wrench, and historically, I just
reefed on it a bit and called it good. Maybe others have a more
scientific approach.

Much more scientific, though not required for pedals which can be set
permanently by hand with a long T handle hex wrench. For total
innocents, you put the hex on the short crossbar of the T into the
bolt and pull on the long arm until it starts bending because, if you
bought a good-quality tool, it is scaled to the maximum torque you
can put on the size of fastener it fits.

But crank bolts need a little more application and for them a proper
ergonomic approach, away from home, is to park your bike beside a
kerb or a stone of the right height, sit on the bike, brace one pedal
against the kerb or the stone to stop the axle turning when you apply
force, apply leg power on the short on-bike tool set into the crank
bolt on the other side. Or you can brace the pedal against a handy
lamp or fence post.

I'm about 215 pounds, so I take care to keep my backsed planted
firmly in the saddle, because otherwise I can easily over tighten
bicycle components to the point of stripping them.

From a time when I suffered constant creaking from Shimano's Nexus
cranksets (they're supposedly Shimano's upmarket gruppo for the
Premium 8sp HGB but they're crap), I discovered that 10% over-spec
torqueing won't necessarily strip the threads.

At home I use a big Bentley-vintage-size torque wrench with a loud
click by hand, because the handle is long enough to make crank bolts
easy-peasy. But after heart surgery, when I was as weak as a lamb, I
decided I could afford another rare and wonderful torque wrench or
several, but not another life, so I stepped on the pre-set big torque
wrench as well, until it clicked; I had it calibrated afterwards by a
competent engineering house and it was in perfect order, but the
craftsman who did the calibration told me to keep my bum in the
saddle because the lever arm with my 215lbs on it wouldn't
necessarily break the torque wrench but because I wouldn't be able to
take the load off quickly enough when it clicked and would almost
certainly ruin the components.

*** More generally, these days you really require a 2-16Nm torque
wrench, a tiny thing against my big torque wrench, because, with
certain non-critical exceptions like pedal and crank bolts, all the
other fittings on the modern best quality bike are heading downwards
in their torque spec. When I first saw the spec for tightening the
axles through a Rohloff hub gearbox and SON hub dynamo, they were so
low, I thought they'd somehow been mistranslated, but they were the
same in the German original. They're basically so low that an extra
quarter turn would tighten them overspeed. Here's a fancy torque
wrench for cafe racers (no, I don't have one -- I have better
already, and if I buy another one, it will be electronic-digital):
https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...a-ii-2-16-pro/

There's a disconnect he you buy a bike made from expensively
custom-pulled steel tubes and lugs from Ferrari's chassis-pusher,
fitted with components of indestructible German agricultural
machinery (the Rohloff gearbox wasn't designed for genteel tourers
but for mud pluggers, and the SON is so heavy not from necessity but
because it is German, and a damn good thing too), and then you're
told you have to use a mickey mouse torque wrench every time you
touch a bolt...

And I'm not even talking about plastic bikes, in which the days of
"tight as a duck's [deleted] and then a couple of turns more" bike
blacksmiths are long since over.

Andre Jute No, that's not an artificial hand, Miss, that's my torque
wrench

What are the preferred torque wrenches these days, in the ~2-20Nm range?

Check the photo at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13067.0 and read the thread. Lotta people like the BBB BTL-73 which I've had for years, but, as the photo demonstrates, you can find the same torque wrench packaged for different brands much less expensively. Generally speaking the decision between the different rebrands, besides the price, is the number and spread of bits included. It helps to know which bits you need (you can find a list of the Rohloff-required bits in the referenced thread too, and page numbers for their source in the Rohloff literature) so that you can check that the case has space for the extra bits. The BBB one used to come in a clamshell plastic case with space for quite a few extra bits, but now it comes in a leather zip around shaped case.

In any event, the BBB BTL-73 and its clones just flat-out work, shrug off abuse and use, and aren't too expensive (like the cafe racer Giusta Forza for over four times the price of the BBB BTL-73 which I posted earlier for a giggle).

Andre Jute
Let me torque you up, sugar bun

Andre Jute

On 2018-09-30 21:48, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 7:31:56 PM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote:
On 2018-09-30 15:33, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie
wrote:

As for standard 15mm open-end pedal wrench, I never once saw a
mechanic use an open end torque wrench, and historically, I
just reefed on it a bit and called it good. Maybe others have a
more scientific approach.

Much more scientific, though not required for pedals which can be
set permanently by hand with a long T handle hex wrench. For
total innocents, you put the hex on the short crossbar of the T
into the bolt and pull on the long arm until it starts bending
because, if you bought a good-quality tool, it is scaled to the
maximum torque you can put on the size of fastener it fits.

But crank bolts need a little more application and for them a
proper ergonomic approach, away from home, is to park your bike
beside a kerb or a stone of the right height, sit on the bike,
brace one pedal against the kerb or the stone to stop the axle
turning when you apply force, apply leg power on the short
on-bike tool set into the crank bolt on the other side. Or you
can brace the pedal against a handy lamp or fence post.

I'm about 215 pounds, so I take care to keep my backsed planted
firmly in the saddle, because otherwise I can easily over
tighten bicycle components to the point of stripping them.

From a time when I suffered constant creaking from Shimano's
Nexus cranksets (they're supposedly Shimano's upmarket gruppo for
the Premium 8sp HGB but they're crap), I discovered that 10%
over-spec torqueing won't necessarily strip the threads.

At home I use a big Bentley-vintage-size torque wrench with a
loud click by hand, because the handle is long enough to make
crank bolts easy-peasy. But after heart surgery, when I was as
weak as a lamb, I decided I could afford another rare and
wonderful torque wrench or several, but not another life, so I
stepped on the pre-set big torque wrench as well, until it
clicked; I had it calibrated afterwards by a competent
engineering house and it was in perfect order, but the craftsman
who did the calibration told me to keep my bum in the saddle
because the lever arm with my 215lbs on it wouldn't necessarily
break the torque wrench but because I wouldn't be able to take
the load off quickly enough when it clicked and would almost
certainly ruin the components.

*** More generally, these days you really require a 2-16Nm
torque wrench, a tiny thing against my big torque wrench,
because, with certain non-critical exceptions like pedal and
crank bolts, all the other fittings on the modern best quality
bike are heading downwards in their torque spec. When I first saw
the spec for tightening the axles through a Rohloff hub gearbox
and SON hub dynamo, they were so low, I thought they'd somehow
been mistranslated, but they were the same in the German
original. They're basically so low that an extra quarter turn
would tighten them overspeed. Here's a fancy torque wrench for
cafe racers (no, I don't have one -- I have better already, and
if I buy another one, it will be electronic-digital):
https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...a-ii-2-16-pro/



There's a disconnect he you buy a bike made from expensively
custom-pulled steel tubes and lugs from Ferrari's
chassis-pusher, fitted with components of indestructible German
agricultural machinery (the Rohloff gearbox wasn't designed for
genteel tourers but for mud pluggers, and the SON is so heavy not
from necessity but because it is German, and a damn good thing
too), and then you're told you have to use a mickey mouse torque
wrench every time you touch a bolt...

And I'm not even talking about plastic bikes, in which the days
of "tight as a duck's [deleted] and then a couple of turns more"
bike blacksmiths are long since over.

Andre Jute No, that's not an artificial hand, Miss, that's my
torque wrench

What are the preferred torque wrenches these days, in the ~2-20Nm
range?

Check the photo at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13067.0 and read the
thread. Lotta people like the BBB BTL-73 which I've had for years,
but, as the photo demonstrates, you can find the same torque wrench
packaged for different brands much less expensively. Generally
speaking the decision between the different rebrands, besides the
price, is the number and spread of bits included. It helps to know
which bits you need (you can find a list of the Rohloff-required
bits in the referenced thread too, and page numbers for their source
in the Rohloff literature) so that you can check that the case has
space for the extra bits. The BBB one used to come in a clamshell
plastic case with space for quite a few extra bits, but now it comes
in a leather zip around shaped case.

In any event, the BBB BTL-73 and its clones just flat-out work, shrug
off abuse and use, and aren't too expensive (like the cafe racer
Giusta Forza for over four times the price of the BBB BTL-73 which I
posted earlier for a giggle).

Good read. I was considering the Norbar TTi20 1/4", 4 - 20 N·m,

https://www.norbar.com/ru-ru/product...d/309/id/23368

Which looks pretty good for the money at around 80 squids.

On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 10:00:30 AM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote:
On 2018-09-30 21:48, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 7:31:56 PM UTC+1, Tosspot wrote:
On 2018-09-30 15:33, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 3:05:07 AM UTC+1, jbeattie
wrote:

As for standard 15mm open-end pedal wrench, I never once saw a
mechanic use an open end torque wrench, and historically, I
just reefed on it a bit and called it good. Maybe others have a
more scientific approach.

Much more scientific, though not required for pedals which can be
set permanently by hand with a long T handle hex wrench. For
total innocents, you put the hex on the short crossbar of the T
into the bolt and pull on the long arm until it starts bending
because, if you bought a good-quality tool, it is scaled to the
maximum torque you can put on the size of fastener it fits.

But crank bolts need a little more application and for them a
proper ergonomic approach, away from home, is to park your bike
beside a kerb or a stone of the right height, sit on the bike,
brace one pedal against the kerb or the stone to stop the axle
turning when you apply force, apply leg power on the short
on-bike tool set into the crank bolt on the other side. Or you
can brace the pedal against a handy lamp or fence post.

I'm about 215 pounds, so I take care to keep my backsed planted
firmly in the saddle, because otherwise I can easily over
tighten bicycle components to the point of stripping them.

From a time when I suffered constant creaking from Shimano's
Nexus cranksets (they're supposedly Shimano's upmarket gruppo for
the Premium 8sp HGB but they're crap), I discovered that 10%
over-spec torqueing won't necessarily strip the threads.

At home I use a big Bentley-vintage-size torque wrench with a
loud click by hand, because the handle is long enough to make
crank bolts easy-peasy. But after heart surgery, when I was as
weak as a lamb, I decided I could afford another rare and
wonderful torque wrench or several, but not another life, so I
stepped on the pre-set big torque wrench as well, until it
clicked; I had it calibrated afterwards by a competent
engineering house and it was in perfect order, but the craftsman
who did the calibration told me to keep my bum in the saddle
because the lever arm with my 215lbs on it wouldn't necessarily
break the torque wrench but because I wouldn't be able to take
the load off quickly enough when it clicked and would almost
certainly ruin the components.

*** More generally, these days you really require a 2-16Nm
torque wrench, a tiny thing against my big torque wrench,
because, with certain non-critical exceptions like pedal and
crank bolts, all the other fittings on the modern best quality
bike are heading downwards in their torque spec. When I first saw
the spec for tightening the axles through a Rohloff hub gearbox
and SON hub dynamo, they were so low, I thought they'd somehow
been mistranslated, but they were the same in the German
original. They're basically so low that an extra quarter turn
would tighten them overspeed. Here's a fancy torque wrench for
cafe racers (no, I don't have one -- I have better already, and
if I buy another one, it will be electronic-digital):
https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...a-ii-2-16-pro/



There's a disconnect he you buy a bike made from expensively
custom-pulled steel tubes and lugs from Ferrari's
chassis-pusher, fitted with components of indestructible German
agricultural machinery (the Rohloff gearbox wasn't designed for
genteel tourers but for mud pluggers, and the SON is so heavy not
from necessity but because it is German, and a damn good thing
too), and then you're told you have to use a mickey mouse torque
wrench every time you touch a bolt...

And I'm not even talking about plastic bikes, in which the days
of "tight as a duck's [deleted] and then a couple of turns more"
bike blacksmiths are long since over.

Andre Jute No, that's not an artificial hand, Miss, that's my
torque wrench

What are the preferred torque wrenches these days, in the ~2-20Nm
range?

Check the photo at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13067.0 and read the
thread. Lotta people like the BBB BTL-73 which I've had for years,
but, as the photo demonstrates, you can find the same torque wrench
packaged for different brands much less expensively. Generally
speaking the decision between the different rebrands, besides the
price, is the number and spread of bits included. It helps to know
which bits you need (you can find a list of the Rohloff-required
bits in the referenced thread too, and page numbers for their source
in the Rohloff literature) so that you can check that the case has
space for the extra bits. The BBB one used to come in a clamshell
plastic case with space for quite a few extra bits, but now it comes
in a leather zip around shaped case.

In any event, the BBB BTL-73 and its clones just flat-out work, shrug
off abuse and use, and aren't too expensive (like the cafe racer
Giusta Forza for over four times the price of the BBB BTL-73 which I
posted earlier for a giggle).

Good read. I was considering the Norbar TTi20 1/4", 4 - 20 N·m,

https://www.norbar.com/ru-ru/product...d/309/id/23368

Which looks pretty good for the money at around 80 squids.

That Norbar is pretty, but it seems expensive to me against he 50 quid or less for the BBB item, much less if branded by someone of lesser image.

Also, 4Nm isn't low enough for a Rohloff owner. You want a torque wrench that goes down to at least 2Nm, preferably 1Nm.

If you're resigned to paying more than the BBB item costs, have you seen the weight-weenie cyclist-specific torque wrenches Topeak offers?

Andre Jute
Measuring up