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Rolling Resistence



 
 
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  #31  
Old September 1st 19, 11:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default Rolling Resistence

On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 09:53:01 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, August 30, 2019 at 10:19:08 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/30/2019 11:45 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, August 29, 2019 at 4:40:16 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/29/2019 6:39 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

No doubt testing one TT bike against another is pretty useless as well. The important factors AGAIN are frontal area and a position that doesn't have the rider squirming all around which would lose all advantage of stream-liming of anything other than the wheels.

Consider - they use rim brakes on the top end TT bikes. For awhile they tried those "hidden" front wheel brakes but it was difficult to design a fork that worked for them and there was no discernable advantage over normal rim brakes.

Now there is far too much sales and marketing of components so all of this new stuff is just so much wasted time and money. Electric shifting gives you what? I have used disk brakes and good V-brakes and I would take the V-brakes in an instant. It is HARD to lock a wheel with V-brakes but it is EASY with hydraulic disks. I still believe that 8 speeds was the best for most purposes. I am always shifting two or three times on my ten speed. Armstrong wanted a 9 speed so that he could carry a climbing gear to go along with his close ratio normal gears. That wasn't a bad idea for a pro - but I'm not a pro.

You'd better be careful. You're starting to agree with what I've been
saying for a long time!

I can't agree with you when you don't even know what I'm saying.


There are quite a few times _nobody_ knows what you're saying. And
that's not limited to the audience.

--
- Frank Krygowski


You don't know what I'm saying because you don't read it for any reason than to invent errors on some level.

Your entire reason for being here is to argue about anything and
everything. You surprise no one.


But Tom, when reading most of your posts there is no need to invent
errors... you make so many.

And than when someone points out your errors instead of admitting them
you change the subject, or launch off into insults, and as
Jean-Jacques Rousseau wrote "Insults are the arguments employed by
those who are in the wrong".

--

Cheers,

John B.
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  #32  
Old September 2nd 19, 06:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,864
Default Rolling Resistence

On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 09:18:19 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 9:22:23 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 5:51:20 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
Because of several things, I ended up mounting the Vittoria Roubino
Pro G+ tires on the LeMond.

Sunday I did an easy 40 mile ride and I was exhausted at the end.
These tires did ride well - they smoothed out the roads quite a bit
th9ugh they appeared to have a lot of rolling resistance. I
couldn't figure out if it was my imagination and finally came to
the conclusion that I am simply on the low side of my fitness
cycle. The difference in rolling resistance is so small compared to
the wind resistance that I can't see how you could possibly tell.

I did a hard 40 miler today with a lot of climbing. I used the
Colnago which has the Vittoria tubeless racing tires on box
tubeless times. Now the Colnago is an aero bike but since this ride
is mostly all climbing or very twisty downhills the aero hardly
seems significant.

But I did 3400 feet of climbing and the tires seemed to make a
rather extraordinary difference. I DID NOT get good sleep last
night so it isn't as if I recovered.

I think that it would probably be a good project to make a rather
off-hand experiment on types of tires and how they seem to run and
ride.

Both of the Vittoria racing tires - the Corsa G+ And Corsa G2
tubeless feel very good. Better than the Michelin Pro4 Endurance
which is pretty good. All of these tires have good puncture
resistance which is necessary around here. I think that I'll pull
the Roubino Pro's off and replace them with a new set of Gatorskins
I have laying around. It's been so long since I've ridden
Gatorskins that I can't remember their rolling resistance.

On another set of wheels I did a couple of metrics on a set of
Continental GP5000TLR tubeless tires. I wouldn't exactly call these
things low rolling resistance. They have a tacky compound that
screws up any directional stability the tires may have. While the
bike goes exactly where you point it with the Vittoria Corsa G+ you
have to watch the GP5000's closely. But in a corner the Continental
is probably better. Riding these metrics I was often confronted
with a decreasing radius turns. On the Vittoria's I would slow a
little and complete the turn. With the Continentals I would just
ride through it.

My experience with the Continental tires is that you have to wear
them through to the thread before throwing them out. The Vittorias
are different. It didn't appear to have much wear on the tread
facing but the rubber sidewalls were peeling away and that made me
nervous so I threw them away.

I guess I'll have to experiment to see if the non-aero LeMond is
what the problem is or the rolling resistance of the tires.


Seems to me if you want to get a handle on the rolling resistance of
your various tires, you might find a hill with a long, gentle slope
and keep track of speed results when coasting down it.

I've done just a little of that. One thing it taught me was that it's
harder than it seems to gauge rolling resistance just by "feel."

- Frank Krygowski


Rolling test aren't accurate either because humidity, pressure and
wind make a far larger contribution than rolling resistance. The only
practical way is either pure feel or to make a testing machine which I
do not feel like doing.


Or read the tests at www.bicyclerollingresistance.com which might very
well include your tires of choice.
  #33  
Old September 2nd 19, 05:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 764
Default Rolling Resistence

On Sunday, September 1, 2019 at 10:48:28 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 28 Aug 2019 09:18:19 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 9:22:23 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 5:51:20 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
Because of several things, I ended up mounting the Vittoria Roubino
Pro G+ tires on the LeMond.

Sunday I did an easy 40 mile ride and I was exhausted at the end.
These tires did ride well - they smoothed out the roads quite a bit
th9ugh they appeared to have a lot of rolling resistance. I
couldn't figure out if it was my imagination and finally came to
the conclusion that I am simply on the low side of my fitness
cycle. The difference in rolling resistance is so small compared to
the wind resistance that I can't see how you could possibly tell.

I did a hard 40 miler today with a lot of climbing. I used the
Colnago which has the Vittoria tubeless racing tires on box
tubeless times. Now the Colnago is an aero bike but since this ride
is mostly all climbing or very twisty downhills the aero hardly
seems significant.

But I did 3400 feet of climbing and the tires seemed to make a
rather extraordinary difference. I DID NOT get good sleep last
night so it isn't as if I recovered.

I think that it would probably be a good project to make a rather
off-hand experiment on types of tires and how they seem to run and
ride.

Both of the Vittoria racing tires - the Corsa G+ And Corsa G2
tubeless feel very good. Better than the Michelin Pro4 Endurance
which is pretty good. All of these tires have good puncture
resistance which is necessary around here. I think that I'll pull
the Roubino Pro's off and replace them with a new set of Gatorskins
I have laying around. It's been so long since I've ridden
Gatorskins that I can't remember their rolling resistance.

On another set of wheels I did a couple of metrics on a set of
Continental GP5000TLR tubeless tires. I wouldn't exactly call these
things low rolling resistance. They have a tacky compound that
screws up any directional stability the tires may have. While the
bike goes exactly where you point it with the Vittoria Corsa G+ you
have to watch the GP5000's closely. But in a corner the Continental
is probably better. Riding these metrics I was often confronted
with a decreasing radius turns. On the Vittoria's I would slow a
little and complete the turn. With the Continentals I would just
ride through it.

My experience with the Continental tires is that you have to wear
them through to the thread before throwing them out. The Vittorias
are different. It didn't appear to have much wear on the tread
facing but the rubber sidewalls were peeling away and that made me
nervous so I threw them away.

I guess I'll have to experiment to see if the non-aero LeMond is
what the problem is or the rolling resistance of the tires.

Seems to me if you want to get a handle on the rolling resistance of
your various tires, you might find a hill with a long, gentle slope
and keep track of speed results when coasting down it.

I've done just a little of that. One thing it taught me was that it's
harder than it seems to gauge rolling resistance just by "feel."

- Frank Krygowski


Rolling test aren't accurate either because humidity, pressure and
wind make a far larger contribution than rolling resistance. The only
practical way is either pure feel or to make a testing machine which I
do not feel like doing.


Or read the tests at www.bicyclerollingresistance.com which might very
well include your tires of choice.


I have read that. Yesterday I did a hard ride. a mile of 5% followed by a mile of 9-10-11 and 12%. I think that part of my problem is not drinking enough water. After coming down and riding another 5 miles I stopped and had an Italian soda and a BLT. That revived me enough that I could walk without weaving but I was pretty slow on the way back on the flats.

But to the point - I installed 1. The Chinese 55 mm Tubeless wheels. I have tightened the spokes up significantly. 2. A Campy Centaur cassette (This cost about half of the titanium cassette weighs perhaps three times as much but shifts GOOD. It doesn't make a continuous clicking noise which I suspect is because they use 11 speed gears on the 10 speed spacing. 3. I was careful to install the Continental GP5000TLS's in the correct direction. From walking all over the place at high speed they operated perfectly considering the strong winds.

I cannot understand how the almost no tread would require a particular rotational direction but followed directions.

I dropped the bar two inches so that my position was more aero. I did not have nearly as much trouble into the wind as with the Rubicon tires or whatever the hell their name is. But I'm certain it was the riding position and not the rolling resistance.

Climbing at 5 MPH isn't going to be effected with 7 watts more rolling resistance at 20 MPH. That same 7 watts isn't going to be significant except in a TT when I'm sprinting across a light at 20 MPH dead tired.

What WAS noticeable was that on the descent the traction of the Black Chili compound.
  #34  
Old September 6th 19, 12:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 764
Default Rolling Resistence

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 2:51:20 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
Because of several things, I ended up mounting the Vittoria Roubino Pro G+ tires on the LeMond.

Sunday I did an easy 40 mile ride and I was exhausted at the end. These tires did ride well - they smoothed out the roads quite a bit th9ugh they appeared to have a lot of rolling resistance. I couldn't figure out if it was my imagination and finally came to the conclusion that I am simply on the low side of my fitness cycle. The difference in rolling resistance is so small compared to the wind resistance that I can't see how you could possibly tell.

I did a hard 40 miler today with a lot of climbing. I used the Colnago which has the Vittoria tubeless racing tires on box tubeless times. Now the Colnago is an aero bike but since this ride is mostly all climbing or very twisty downhills the aero hardly seems significant.

But I did 3400 feet of climbing and the tires seemed to make a rather extraordinary difference. I DID NOT get good sleep last night so it isn't as if I recovered.

I think that it would probably be a good project to make a rather off-hand experiment on types of tires and how they seem to run and ride.

Both of the Vittoria racing tires - the Corsa G+ And Corsa G2 tubeless feel very good. Better than the Michelin Pro4 Endurance which is pretty good. All of these tires have good puncture resistance which is necessary around here. I think that I'll pull the Roubino Pro's off and replace them with a new set of Gatorskins I have laying around. It's been so long since I've ridden Gatorskins that I can't remember their rolling resistance.

On another set of wheels I did a couple of metrics on a set of Continental GP5000TLR tubeless tires. I wouldn't exactly call these things low rolling resistance. They have a tacky compound that screws up any directional stability the tires may have. While the bike goes exactly where you point it with the Vittoria Corsa G+ you have to watch the GP5000's closely. But in a corner the Continental is probably better. Riding these metrics I was often confronted with a decreasing radius turns. On the Vittoria's I would slow a little and complete the turn. With the Continentals I would just ride through it.

My experience with the Continental tires is that you have to wear them through to the thread before throwing them out. The Vittorias are different. It didn't appear to have much wear on the tread facing but the rubber sidewalls were peeling away and that made me nervous so I threw them away.

I guess I'll have to experiment to see if the non-aero LeMond is what the problem is or the rolling resistance of the tires.


OK, I bought a Park Tool spoke wrench for these new nipples that are threaded on and torqued from the outside of the rim.

I felt that my Chinese wheels were insufficiently torqued and that was what was causing the "walking around" of my steering at high speed.

So a couple of days ago I tightened the spokes, not quite to what they are on the Chinese clincher rims but almost as much for the tubeless rims. I have ridden them on a couple of rides with fast descents and they are very much improved. They still walk around a little but I think that is due to the Continental GP5000 with its sticky compound. Every irregularity in the road appears to make the wheel point somewhere else.

I do not have that problem with the tubeless Vittoria Corsa style tires which have longitudinal lines of tread.

On the other hand, if you're in a blind turn that tightens up on you the GP5000's really stick to the road and you can retain your speed and lay it over a bit more. The Vittoria's are also really good but I don't have quite as much cornering confidence like that. Though if I know the line to take in the first place I think that the Vittoria's are faster through the corners..

I have done maybe 500 miles on the GP's including a couple of metric centuries and going along pretty fast and coming up to a corner that is tight enough that they put a flagman on it I haven't had the slightest problem.

But as I say, they don't seem to have the directional stability that the Vittorias have.
 




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