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WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 25th 19, 05:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 7,595
Default WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle

On 8/25/2019 10:23 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/24/2019 10:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 3:49:44 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

The bike I want the Suntour Cyclone spindle is one I'm building up
with the original groupset it had when new. I do NOT want a cartridge
bottom bracket assembly for it.


Our 1986 Cannondale touring bikes came with SunTour Superbe sealed bottom
brackets. Mine lasted about 25 years. My wife's has less mileage, and
is still
fine.

But I understand your desire to duplicate the original.

- Frank Krygowski


I'm happy that you are happy.

But everything has a measurable failure rate:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/STBBRUST.JPG


I never took mine apart to see what happened. I just replaced it with a
Shimano unit.

Maybe my wife's is still going because she rides in rain even less than
I do.


--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #12  
Old August 25th 19, 07:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 4,490
Default WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle

On Sunday, 25 August 2019 10:23:59 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/24/2019 10:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 3:49:44 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

The bike I want the Suntour Cyclone spindle is one I'm building up with the original groupset it had when new. I do NOT want a cartridge bottom bracket assembly for it.


Our 1986 Cannondale touring bikes came with SunTour Superbe sealed bottom
brackets. Mine lasted about 25 years. My wife's has less mileage, and is still
fine.

But I understand your desire to duplicate the original.

- Frank Krygowski


I'm happy that you are happy.

But everything has a measurable failure rate:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/STBBRUST.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


A fellow I knew just outside of town and who fixed bicycles for quick sale asked me to checkout a loose crank on a sealed cartridge bottom bracket bicycle. I took the left side cup off the bottom bracket shell and the broken cartridge fell out. All that was left on the bicycle was the remains of the right side of the cartridge. I'd never seen anything like it before or since. I sure wish I'd had my camera with me that day as I'd have loved to take an image of it.

Cheers
  #13  
Old August 25th 19, 10:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Posts: 5,033
Default WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle

Tom Kunich wrote:

Out of curiosity - why would you use an old and not very efficient
way to do things then you could buy a normal cartridge BB that will
last you the rest of your life since it is sealed to keep dirt out?


Sealed BBs don't last forever. They seem to last about as long as loose ball BBs, but with less maintenance along the way.

Square-taper sealed cartridge BBs do flex substantially more than traditional cup-and-cone BBs, because the spindle overhangs the bearings by a longer distance. The first time I saw cartridge BBs was in the new fleet of rental bikes at the shop where I worked in 1992. The first test ride I did after building one up made me think something was broken, because the pedals dove so far underneath the BB shell.
  #14  
Old August 25th 19, 11:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 764
Default WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle

On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 9:00:52 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/24/2019 9:27 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, August 23, 2019 at 10:26:14 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Anyone here have a decent Suntour CYCLONE bottom bracket spindle they're willing to sell? I have NOS bottom bracket cups for it.

Cheers


Out of curiosity - why would you use an old and not very efficient way to do things then you could buy a normal cartridge BB that will last you the rest of your life since it is sealed to keep dirt out?


I run loose-ball forged steel spindles in all my own bikes.
People weigh all sorts of factors and make reasonable
choices for their own applications as they see fit.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Those types of BB's were made to be adjustable. I suppose that bearings were considered expensive at that time. But sealed bearings last virtually forever and the axle now made on close tolerance lathes doesn't require adjustment of any sort.
  #15  
Old August 25th 19, 11:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 764
Default WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle

On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 11:16:11 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 10:31:32 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/24/2019 12:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/24/2019 9:27 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, August 23, 2019 at 10:26:14 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Anyone here have a decent Suntour CYCLONE bottom bracket spindle
they're willing to sell? I have NOS bottom bracket cups for it.

Cheers

Out of curiosity - why would you use an old and not very efficient way
to do things then you could buy a normal cartridge BB that will last
you the rest of your life since it is sealed to keep dirt out?


I run loose-ball forged steel spindles in all my own bikes.
People weigh all sorts of factors and make reasonable choices for their
own applications as they see fit.


I've got a mix. But I've had sealed BB units fail, about as often as
loose ball units. Both have failed seldom, but in my limited experience,
it's not a night and day difference.

To me, BBs have always been a wear item. Some wear longer than others, but I've never had the same BB on a bike from the beginning of its life until the end. Some cartridge designs were horrid, like ISIS. I went through those like Kleenex. Octalink was O.K. but not great. Prior UN square drive were fairly robust. PW was robust, although I broke the center collar on one of those and had both crak arms facing forward -- which is probably a marketable invention now. I would get pitting or bad cup wear in opening bearing BBs. In the PNW, sealed bearings are nice but wiper seals are certainly not perfect. You can pull those off and find a nice, dry bearing -- hopefully not corroded.

-- Jay Beattie.


I have Record BB's here that are 35 years old. Is that what you call a wear item? And for 3 years before I had my concussion I was riding over 10,000 miles a year.
  #16  
Old August 25th 19, 11:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 764
Default WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle

On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 12:49:44 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, 24 August 2019 10:27:11 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, August 23, 2019 at 10:26:14 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Anyone here have a decent Suntour CYCLONE bottom bracket spindle they're willing to sell? I have NOS bottom bracket cups for it.

Cheers


Out of curiosity - why would you use an old and not very efficient way to do things then you could buy a normal cartridge BB that will last you the rest of your life since it is sealed to keep dirt out?


Becausethe are efficient enough and work well enough for me. After all some of my bikes have cup-and-cone loose balls bottom brackets and they have been on the bike since the mid-1980s. Why should I change when what I have works perfectly for me?

The bike I want the Suntour Cyclone spindle is one I'm building up with the original groupset it had when new. I do NOT want a cartridge bottom bracket assembly for it.

Cheers


I installed a set of Vittoria Roubaix G+_ tires on my LeMond. They have a very noticeable increase in rolling resistance. The same is true with loose ball bearings. Andrew can adjust them correctly but almost no one else can.

Why should I fight the bike instead of the wind?
  #17  
Old August 25th 19, 11:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 764
Default WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle

On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 7:23:59 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/24/2019 10:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 3:49:44 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

The bike I want the Suntour Cyclone spindle is one I'm building up with the original groupset it had when new. I do NOT want a cartridge bottom bracket assembly for it.


Our 1986 Cannondale touring bikes came with SunTour Superbe sealed bottom
brackets. Mine lasted about 25 years. My wife's has less mileage, and is still
fine.

But I understand your desire to duplicate the original.

- Frank Krygowski


I'm happy that you are happy.

But everything has a measurable failure rate:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/STBBRUST.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I suppose he question is - how did that water get in there to begin with? Fording a stream deeper than the hubs?
  #18  
Old August 25th 19, 11:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 764
Default WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle

On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 2:17:03 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

Out of curiosity - why would you use an old and not very efficient
way to do things then you could buy a normal cartridge BB that will
last you the rest of your life since it is sealed to keep dirt out?


Sealed BBs don't last forever. They seem to last about as long as loose ball BBs, but with less maintenance along the way.

Square-taper sealed cartridge BBs do flex substantially more than traditional cup-and-cone BBs, because the spindle overhangs the bearings by a longer distance. The first time I saw cartridge BBs was in the new fleet of rental bikes at the shop where I worked in 1992. The first test ride I did after building one up made me think something was broken, because the pedals dove so far underneath the BB shell.


So now you're going to impart real knowledge? That isn't like you.
  #19  
Old August 26th 19, 12:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 764
Default WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle

On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 2:17:03 PM UTC-7, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

Out of curiosity - why would you use an old and not very efficient
way to do things then you could buy a normal cartridge BB that will
last you the rest of your life since it is sealed to keep dirt out?


Sealed BBs don't last forever. They seem to last about as long as loose ball BBs, but with less maintenance along the way.

Square-taper sealed cartridge BBs do flex substantially more than traditional cup-and-cone BBs, because the spindle overhangs the bearings by a longer distance. The first time I saw cartridge BBs was in the new fleet of rental bikes at the shop where I worked in 1992. The first test ride I did after building one up made me think something was broken, because the pedals dove so far underneath the BB shell.


Just to get on the same page - the actual crank axle material has changed. It only requires a very small amount of chromium to greatly increase the strength of the axle. Moreover hollowing the axle out also increases the rigidity of the axle. This is what led to the octalink BB which FAR stiffer than any of the older ISO. Oh, wait, as a mechanical engineer Frank doesn't know anything about this.


The MEGAexo BB greatly spread the distance between the bearing supports and allowed very much thinner and lighter crank axles. Furthermore, it is a hell of a lot easier to replace the new-style bearing cups or even just the sealed bearings inside of those cups and achieve maximum strength and rigidity than playing about with ball and cone bearings.
  #20  
Old August 26th 19, 12:35 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 10,698
Default WTB Suntour CYCLONE BB Spindle

On 8/25/2019 5:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 7:23:59 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/24/2019 10:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 24, 2019 at 3:49:44 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

The bike I want the Suntour Cyclone spindle is one I'm building up with the original groupset it had when new. I do NOT want a cartridge bottom bracket assembly for it.

Our 1986 Cannondale touring bikes came with SunTour Superbe sealed bottom
brackets. Mine lasted about 25 years. My wife's has less mileage, and is still
fine.

But I understand your desire to duplicate the original.

- Frank Krygowski


I'm happy that you are happy.

But everything has a measurable failure rate:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/STBBRUST.JPG


I suppose he question is - how did that water get in there to begin with? Fording a stream deeper than the hubs?


Jobst repeatedly - sometimes with patience but usually not -
wrote here about the nature of wet seals. Either oil is
flowing out or everything else is flowing in. There is no magic.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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