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Sirect Mount Brakes?



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 10th 19, 11:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 772
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 1:09:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 8 September 2019 12:45:41 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 7:11:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg

Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of clears it up. Thanks.

Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins. That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou

And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake. https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg I do worry about the long-term availability of direct mount brakes, but then again, they use standard pads, and my brakes typically do last the lives of my bikes.

-- Jay Beattie.


If you look at that break it is the same thing as a cantilever which never worked well. Adding leverage may improve it but there CERTAINLY can't be a better rim brake than the latest Campy Skeleton brake.


I can stop my FULLY LOADED cantilever brake touring bike or my cantilever equipped MTB very well in the dry or in the wet. Indeed the limiting factor of braking with my cantilever brakes isn't the stopping power of the brakes but is the road surface. On many roads and trails my tires will start sliding because the cantilever brakes are capable of locking them up.

Cheers


Well, I have a touring bike and two gravel bikes with cantilevers. I don't ride very hard of the touring bike so it can stop. But on the gravel bikes I switched one to high end V-brakes and the other to hydraulic disks. Coming down steep descents a cantilever required the arm strength of a gorilla.
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  #22  
Old September 11th 19, 01:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,700
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On 9/10/2019 5:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 11:59:46 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/8/2019 12:21 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/8/2019 10:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom
Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi
wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom
Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out
with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any
different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount
differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed
pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg


Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake




--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to
the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard
mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of
clears it up. Thanks.

Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins.
That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a
fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou

And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake.
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg

That is a rather unique brake. About as unique as the
Shimano AX:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...d0809&Enum=117


I enjoy occasionally browsing through _The Data Book_, which
is mostly a collection of drawings of then-new bike
components from the 1920s through the 1960s or so. There are
countless different brake designs illustrated. It goes a
long way toward proving there's nothing much new under the
sun, at least in mechanical bike parts.



Weird is a personal attribution.

I would counter that brazed mounts for a Mafac Raid (a
wildly popular brake at the time) was a logical improvement
at negligible upcharge on an artisan custom frame of the era.


When I look at those brakes I see the insides of those Campy Record brakes with the triangular covers that couldn't stop you at 5 mph.


As Frank mentioned, nearly every new thing was already
described in The Data Book or in Archibald Sharp:

http://www.blackbirdsf.org/brake_obs...ad/bebolux.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #23  
Old September 11th 19, 02:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,490
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 18:48:03 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 1:09:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 8 September 2019 12:45:41 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 7:11:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg

Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of clears it up. Thanks.

Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins. That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a fork for direct mount brakes..

Lou

And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake. https://www.tririg..com/images/store..._Store_323.jpg I do worry about the long-term availability of direct mount brakes, but then again, they use standard pads, and my brakes typically do last the lives of my bikes.

-- Jay Beattie.

If you look at that break it is the same thing as a cantilever which never worked well. Adding leverage may improve it but there CERTAINLY can't be a better rim brake than the latest Campy Skeleton brake.


I can stop my FULLY LOADED cantilever brake touring bike or my cantilever equipped MTB very well in the dry or in the wet. Indeed the limiting factor of braking with my cantilever brakes isn't the stopping power of the brakes but is the road surface. On many roads and trails my tires will start sliding because the cantilever brakes are capable of locking them up.

Cheers


Well, I have a touring bike and two gravel bikes with cantilevers. I don't ride very hard of the touring bike so it can stop. But on the gravel bikes I switched one to high end V-brakes and the other to hydraulic disks. Coming down steep descents a cantilever required the arm strength of a gorilla..


Sheesh! On gravel or dirt roads I can EASILY lock up my wheels with my cantilever brakes. Cantilever brakes must be set up PROPERLY to have the maximum braking power though. I find it's not the brake type that limits my stopping distance on a gravel or dirt roads but rather the tire grip. Once the tire starts sliding applying more braking force won't do anything.

Cheers
  #24  
Old September 11th 19, 04:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,598
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On 9/10/2019 6:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 1:09:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I can stop my FULLY LOADED cantilever brake touring bike or my cantilever equipped MTB very well in the dry or in the wet. Indeed the limiting factor of braking with my cantilever brakes isn't the stopping power of the brakes but is the road surface. On many roads and trails my tires will start sliding because the cantilever brakes are capable of locking them up.

Cheers


Well, I have a touring bike and two gravel bikes with cantilevers. I don't ride very hard of the touring bike so it can stop. But on the gravel bikes I switched one to high end V-brakes and the other to hydraulic disks. Coming down steep descents a cantilever required the arm strength of a gorilla.


It could have been your setup, or your choice of brake shoes. As Sheldon
and others have pointed out, one can adjust the mechanical advantage of
many cantilever brakes. Those on our tandem are set up for higher
braking force, by shortening the straddle cable. The tradeoff is less
travel, just as the laws of physics predict, so I have to be sure the
wheels are true. But except for one loaded tour, that hasn't been a
problem.

On that tour, after some serious potholes in one town, the rear wheel
was a bit out of true despite its 48 spokes. Unfortunately, with the
wheel so far back and surrounded by panniers, I couldn't hear the scraping.

I wondered why I felt so blasted tired on the last two days of that
trip. When I got the bike in my basement, I realized the answer.



--
- Frank Krygowski
  #25  
Old September 11th 19, 08:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 772
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:28:09 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/10/2019 6:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 1:09:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I can stop my FULLY LOADED cantilever brake touring bike or my cantilever equipped MTB very well in the dry or in the wet. Indeed the limiting factor of braking with my cantilever brakes isn't the stopping power of the brakes but is the road surface. On many roads and trails my tires will start sliding because the cantilever brakes are capable of locking them up.

Cheers


Well, I have a touring bike and two gravel bikes with cantilevers. I don't ride very hard of the touring bike so it can stop. But on the gravel bikes I switched one to high end V-brakes and the other to hydraulic disks. Coming down steep descents a cantilever required the arm strength of a gorilla.


It could have been your setup, or your choice of brake shoes. As Sheldon
and others have pointed out, one can adjust the mechanical advantage of
many cantilever brakes. Those on our tandem are set up for higher
braking force, by shortening the straddle cable. The tradeoff is less
travel, just as the laws of physics predict, so I have to be sure the
wheels are true. But except for one loaded tour, that hasn't been a
problem.

On that tour, after some serious potholes in one town, the rear wheel
was a bit out of true despite its 48 spokes. Unfortunately, with the
wheel so far back and surrounded by panniers, I couldn't hear the scraping.

I wondered why I felt so blasted tired on the last two days of that
trip. When I got the bike in my basement, I realized the answer.



--
- Frank Krygowski


Frank, contrary to your opposing beliefs I am quite familiar with leverage.
  #26  
Old September 11th 19, 08:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 772
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 6:28:50 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 10 September 2019 18:48:03 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 1:09:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 8 September 2019 12:45:41 UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 7:11:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 4:41:30 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 11:43:45 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 3:50:25 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/6/2019 4:42 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:23:36 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 6:16:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
I am seeing more and more manufacturers coming out with "direct mount brakes". Howe are these any different than any other rim brake?

Stiffer and more aero.

Lou

That's not an answer Lou, that is an attribute.

I can't tell by looking at them if they mount differently or are merely activated differently.


It's a combination of two things.

One is the French randonneur centerpulls with brazed pivots
from The Olden Days:
https://16incheswestofpeoria.files.w...01/dsc0496.jpg

Which was, at the time, an actual innovation.

The other is 'the stuff we sold you last year is no good.
Here's the new one'.

Direct caliper mounting:
https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_322.jpg

Direct mount caliper:
https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/Com...ct_mount_brake



--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I suppose that bracket attaches in the weird manner to the carbon fork so that they don't have to mold in hard mounts. That was what was confusing me and that sort of clears it up. Thanks.

Huh???? For direct mount brakes you need two mold ins. That bracket is an adapter to attach a normal brake to a fork for direct mount brakes.

Lou

And that's an adapter for a rather unique brake. https://www.tririg.com/images/store/..._Store_323.jpg I do worry about the long-term availability of direct mount brakes, but then again, they use standard pads, and my brakes typically do last the lives of my bikes.

-- Jay Beattie.

If you look at that break it is the same thing as a cantilever which never worked well. Adding leverage may improve it but there CERTAINLY can't be a better rim brake than the latest Campy Skeleton brake.

I can stop my FULLY LOADED cantilever brake touring bike or my cantilever equipped MTB very well in the dry or in the wet. Indeed the limiting factor of braking with my cantilever brakes isn't the stopping power of the brakes but is the road surface. On many roads and trails my tires will start sliding because the cantilever brakes are capable of locking them up.

Cheers


Well, I have a touring bike and two gravel bikes with cantilevers. I don't ride very hard of the touring bike so it can stop. But on the gravel bikes I switched one to high end V-brakes and the other to hydraulic disks. Coming down steep descents a cantilever required the arm strength of a gorilla.


Sheesh! On gravel or dirt roads I can EASILY lock up my wheels with my cantilever brakes. Cantilever brakes must be set up PROPERLY to have the maximum braking power though. I find it's not the brake type that limits my stopping distance on a gravel or dirt roads but rather the tire grip. Once the tire starts sliding applying more braking force won't do anything.

Cheers


Perhaps you have a very soft brake compound? Shimano stock brake shoes would NOT stop my VC bike on a steep drop and I would have to regulate my speed down to the speed at which I could stop in time.
  #27  
Old September 11th 19, 09:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,598
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On 9/11/2019 3:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:28:09 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/10/2019 6:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 1:09:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I can stop my FULLY LOADED cantilever brake touring bike or my cantilever equipped MTB very well in the dry or in the wet. Indeed the limiting factor of braking with my cantilever brakes isn't the stopping power of the brakes but is the road surface. On many roads and trails my tires will start sliding because the cantilever brakes are capable of locking them up.

Cheers

Well, I have a touring bike and two gravel bikes with cantilevers. I don't ride very hard of the touring bike so it can stop. But on the gravel bikes I switched one to high end V-brakes and the other to hydraulic disks. Coming down steep descents a cantilever required the arm strength of a gorilla.


It could have been your setup, or your choice of brake shoes. As Sheldon
and others have pointed out, one can adjust the mechanical advantage of
many cantilever brakes. Those on our tandem are set up for higher
braking force, by shortening the straddle cable. The tradeoff is less
travel, just as the laws of physics predict, so I have to be sure the
wheels are true. But except for one loaded tour, that hasn't been a
problem.

On that tour, after some serious potholes in one town, the rear wheel
was a bit out of true despite its 48 spokes. Unfortunately, with the
wheel so far back and surrounded by panniers, I couldn't hear the scraping.

I wondered why I felt so blasted tired on the last two days of that
trip. When I got the bike in my basement, I realized the answer.


Frank, contrary to your opposing beliefs I am quite familiar with leverage.


Maybe so. But I have cantilever brakes on most bikes, including the
tandem and the touring bike. Even heavily loaded on mountains or very
steep hills (over 15%) I've always stopped fine. I don't have "the arm
strength of a gorilla."

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #28  
Old September 12th 19, 02:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 772
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 1:13:50 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/11/2019 3:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:28:09 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/10/2019 6:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 1:09:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I can stop my FULLY LOADED cantilever brake touring bike or my cantilever equipped MTB very well in the dry or in the wet. Indeed the limiting factor of braking with my cantilever brakes isn't the stopping power of the brakes but is the road surface. On many roads and trails my tires will start sliding because the cantilever brakes are capable of locking them up.

Cheers

Well, I have a touring bike and two gravel bikes with cantilevers. I don't ride very hard of the touring bike so it can stop. But on the gravel bikes I switched one to high end V-brakes and the other to hydraulic disks. Coming down steep descents a cantilever required the arm strength of a gorilla.

It could have been your setup, or your choice of brake shoes. As Sheldon
and others have pointed out, one can adjust the mechanical advantage of
many cantilever brakes. Those on our tandem are set up for higher
braking force, by shortening the straddle cable. The tradeoff is less
travel, just as the laws of physics predict, so I have to be sure the
wheels are true. But except for one loaded tour, that hasn't been a
problem.

On that tour, after some serious potholes in one town, the rear wheel
was a bit out of true despite its 48 spokes. Unfortunately, with the
wheel so far back and surrounded by panniers, I couldn't hear the scraping.

I wondered why I felt so blasted tired on the last two days of that
trip. When I got the bike in my basement, I realized the answer.


Frank, contrary to your opposing beliefs I am quite familiar with leverage.


Maybe so. But I have cantilever brakes on most bikes, including the
tandem and the touring bike. Even heavily loaded on mountains or very
steep hills (over 15%) I've always stopped fine. I don't have "the arm
strength of a gorilla."

--
- Frank Krygowski


I assume therefore that you use a very soft shoe compound that wears away rapidly.
  #29  
Old September 12th 19, 09:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,598
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On 9/12/2019 9:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 1:13:50 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/11/2019 3:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:28:09 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/10/2019 6:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 1:09:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I can stop my FULLY LOADED cantilever brake touring bike or my cantilever equipped MTB very well in the dry or in the wet. Indeed the limiting factor of braking with my cantilever brakes isn't the stopping power of the brakes but is the road surface. On many roads and trails my tires will start sliding because the cantilever brakes are capable of locking them up.

Cheers

Well, I have a touring bike and two gravel bikes with cantilevers. I don't ride very hard of the touring bike so it can stop. But on the gravel bikes I switched one to high end V-brakes and the other to hydraulic disks. Coming down steep descents a cantilever required the arm strength of a gorilla.

It could have been your setup, or your choice of brake shoes. As Sheldon
and others have pointed out, one can adjust the mechanical advantage of
many cantilever brakes. Those on our tandem are set up for higher
braking force, by shortening the straddle cable. The tradeoff is less
travel, just as the laws of physics predict, so I have to be sure the
wheels are true. But except for one loaded tour, that hasn't been a
problem.

On that tour, after some serious potholes in one town, the rear wheel
was a bit out of true despite its 48 spokes. Unfortunately, with the
wheel so far back and surrounded by panniers, I couldn't hear the scraping.

I wondered why I felt so blasted tired on the last two days of that
trip. When I got the bike in my basement, I realized the answer.


Frank, contrary to your opposing beliefs I am quite familiar with leverage.


Maybe so. But I have cantilever brakes on most bikes, including the
tandem and the touring bike. Even heavily loaded on mountains or very
steep hills (over 15%) I've always stopped fine. I don't have "the arm
strength of a gorilla."

--
- Frank Krygowski


I assume therefore that you use a very soft shoe compound that wears away rapidly.


On most bikes I use Kool-Stop Salmon pads. Interestingly, our tandem has
grey-colored Kool-Stop pads instead, I don't remember why.

We rode the tandem on today's club ride. The leader asked at the
beginning "Does anyone object to a really steep downhill?" It turned out
to be a 20% grade, judging by my USGS map (0.025" spacing on 10 foot
contour lines on a 1:24,000 map).

Yes, on that downhill I was squeezing hard, but I had no trouble
controlling my speed or coming to a complete stop while still on the slope.

My brake shoes last a long, long time. I think I must brake a lot less
than some people. After all, it does waste energy.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #30  
Old September 12th 19, 10:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,175
Default Sirect Mount Brakes?

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 1:40:01 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/12/2019 9:49 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 1:13:50 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/11/2019 3:46 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, September 10, 2019 at 8:28:09 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/10/2019 6:48 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 8, 2019 at 1:09:54 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

I can stop my FULLY LOADED cantilever brake touring bike or my cantilever equipped MTB very well in the dry or in the wet. Indeed the limiting factor of braking with my cantilever brakes isn't the stopping power of the brakes but is the road surface. On many roads and trails my tires will start sliding because the cantilever brakes are capable of locking them up.

Cheers

Well, I have a touring bike and two gravel bikes with cantilevers. I don't ride very hard of the touring bike so it can stop. But on the gravel bikes I switched one to high end V-brakes and the other to hydraulic disks. Coming down steep descents a cantilever required the arm strength of a gorilla.

It could have been your setup, or your choice of brake shoes. As Sheldon
and others have pointed out, one can adjust the mechanical advantage of
many cantilever brakes. Those on our tandem are set up for higher
braking force, by shortening the straddle cable. The tradeoff is less
travel, just as the laws of physics predict, so I have to be sure the
wheels are true. But except for one loaded tour, that hasn't been a
problem.

On that tour, after some serious potholes in one town, the rear wheel
was a bit out of true despite its 48 spokes. Unfortunately, with the
wheel so far back and surrounded by panniers, I couldn't hear the scraping.

I wondered why I felt so blasted tired on the last two days of that
trip. When I got the bike in my basement, I realized the answer.


Frank, contrary to your opposing beliefs I am quite familiar with leverage.

Maybe so. But I have cantilever brakes on most bikes, including the
tandem and the touring bike. Even heavily loaded on mountains or very
steep hills (over 15%) I've always stopped fine. I don't have "the arm
strength of a gorilla."

--
- Frank Krygowski


I assume therefore that you use a very soft shoe compound that wears away rapidly.


On most bikes I use Kool-Stop Salmon pads. Interestingly, our tandem has
grey-colored Kool-Stop pads instead, I don't remember why.

We rode the tandem on today's club ride. The leader asked at the
beginning "Does anyone object to a really steep downhill?" It turned out
to be a 20% grade, judging by my USGS map (0.025" spacing on 10 foot
contour lines on a 1:24,000 map).

Yes, on that downhill I was squeezing hard, but I had no trouble
controlling my speed or coming to a complete stop while still on the slope.

My brake shoes last a long, long time. I think I must brake a lot less
than some people. After all, it does waste energy.


Must be some brutal downhills there in Ohio. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_Hill_(Ohio)

I blew a front tire on a tandem descending this on a hot day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NPqQptjbF0 That's only 1300 feet of descending. I couldn't imagine a rim-brake tandem with no disc or drag brake on the stuff I ride with my son in SLC -- or riding something like Mt. Hamilton or Diablo down in TK territory. https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/me...ad-to-lick.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.

 




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