What makes a bicycle-safe drive-up window?

On 2008-02-06, wrote:

Also: I like Carl's idea of a liability waiver in many situations;
but it may be less useful in this situation, where the company is
already begging the community for permission. Also, while IANAL, I'd
be a bit worried about companies using a liability waiver to neglect
elementary safety concerns.

IANAL either, but:

Neglecting elementary safety features would verge on commission of gross
negligence, which can't be waived; if the safety feature is elementary,
then the effect of its omission is clearly foreseeable. And gross negligence
can't be waived, no matter how hard companies (and ride organizers) try. So
I'd worry less about that.

However, I despise waivers on principle, so I'd prefer to just focus on
features, and hope the drive-up operator doesn't press for the waiver. You've
already mentioned drain grates and expansion joints, and loop detectors
have been brought up as well (though those can be made to work for bicycles).
Other things to consider are the height of the window, the sight lines,
and painted markings on the pavement (bad when wet).

Also, this might be a good time to ask for a bike rack to be installed for
non-drive up customers, if applicable.

--

Kristian Zoerhoff

On Feb 6, 11:19 am, Kristian M Zoerhoff
wrote:

Other things to consider are the height of the window, the sight lines,
and painted markings on the pavement (bad when wet).

Also, this might be a good time to ask for a bike rack to be installed for
non-drive up customers, if applicable.


I especially like the last two ideas. I'll certainly pass those on.
Thanks.

- Frank Krygowski

On 2008-02-06, wrote:
On Feb 6, 11:19 am, Kristian M Zoerhoff
wrote:

Other things to consider are the height of the window, the sight lines,
and painted markings on the pavement (bad when wet).

Also, this might be a good time to ask for a bike rack to be installed for
non-drive up customers, if applicable.


I especially like the last two ideas. I'll certainly pass those on.
Thanks.

You're welcome. If your zoning board buddy throws any other ideas out there,
would you mind tossing them my way? I recently got named to my village's plan
commission, so I'm going to be in a similar situation soon enough.

--

Kristian Zoerhoff

On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:23:23 -0800, frkrygow wrote:

On Feb 6, 11:19 am, Kristian M Zoerhoff
wrote:

Other things to consider are the height of the window, the sight lines,
and painted markings on the pavement (bad when wet).

Also, this might be a good time to ask for a bike rack to be installed
for non-drive up customers, if applicable.


I especially like the last two ideas. I'll certainly pass those on.
Thanks.

I'd care more about the latter too. I have little interest in drive up
windows, but I care a lot about bike racks in front of *all* businesses.

Other than that, anything good enough for a motorcycle is good enough for
a bicycle. With experience in both you probably have some good ideas.

While I'm impressed with the earnest answers given here, get yourself on
the Thunderhead list. It's a strictly moderated Q&A forum for
bike/ped/planning/engineering professionals and bona fide advocates, with
a lot of good answers and no crap.

Matt O.

On Feb 5, 8:54*pm, wrote:
A question's come up regarding zoning requirements, to try to ensure
safe bicyclist access to drive-up windows. *A person who's pushing for
that requirement was told that "safe bicyclist access" is probably too
vague to be meaningful or enforceable.

So what might be specifics?

Here's what I thought of:

Prohibit any longitudinal gaps in pavement that are wider than, say,
1/2 inch. *That could be edges of drain grates, cracks, seams between
pavers or poured concrete sections, etc.

Prohibit smooth metal that would get slick in wet weather.

Keep it shoveled in snow? *Perhaps salted, if necessary? *(This could
be tough, since it's an ongoing maintenance issue. *But then, I think
businesses ought to be made to shovel walks for pedestrians too.)

Assure that any vehicle detectors must recognize the presence of a
bicycle. *That's in case some of the common fast-food drive-up designs
(where you shout in the mike at one spot, then pick up pseudo-food at
a window) might have loop detectors to tell when a vehicle's present.

Anybody got any other ideas?

- Frank Krygowski

Until last month, I had never had a problem getting "bike - thru"
service at a variety of fast food places, bank drive throughs and a
Walgreen's pharmacy. But late on a weekday night in January, after
indoor service was closed, I was refused service at a McDonald's drive-
through in Rockford, IL. Whatever the reason for the policy, there
was no immediate safety issue as there were no other vehicles in
sight. My annoyance was limited by the fact that my car was at the
nearby motel I had just checked into, so I went back with it.

I'm not a particular "there ought to be a law" type of person, so I'm
not in a hurry to look for a remedy for what appeared to be an
isolated incident. But apparently, some of the rest of you have had
problems, too.

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 19:12:31 -0800 (PST), Ron Wallenfang
wrote:


, after
indoor service was closed, I was refused service at a McDonald's drive-
through in Rockford, IL. Whatever the reason for the policy, there
was no immediate safety issue as there were no other vehicles in
sight. My annoyance was limited by the fact that my car was at the
nearby motel I had just checked into, so I went back with it.

If you can possibly avoid it, don't give business to a place like
that.

I just found this.

http://www.midflorida.com/interest/0...ru-banking.htm

Nice!

- Frank Krygowski

On Feb 5, 9:54 pm, wrote:
A question's come up regarding zoning requirements, to try to ensure
safe bicyclist access to drive-up windows. A person who's pushing for
that requirement was told that "safe bicyclist access" is probably too
vague to be meaningful or enforceable.

I find this topic quite amusing. My local bank, which I frequent with
some regularity on my bicycle, removed its pedestrian and wheelchair
friendly ATM station some years ago leaving only the drive up. The
drive up ATM, to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act, has
Braille instruction. From the way the drivers often behave when I am
in line on my cycle ahead of them, the Braille is needed. They'll honk
and yell for me to use the walk-up. There is no walk-up. The drive
through is also the walk-up window. At least there are speed bumps,
but I pity the blind wheelchair user who must navigate over them
before searching for the Braille instruction on ATM use. I wonder if
the drivers honk at wheelchairs.

I'd say if you want a bicycle safe-drive through, see to it that every
bank has a walk up window on a sidewalk or pedestrian area. That
should make it safer for pedestrians, cyclists, and the handicapped
until the SUV owners start using their offroad capabilities to drive
on sidwalks to avoid congestion on the streets and highways.

Cheers,
MD

On Feb 8, 1:26 pm, " wrote:
On Feb 5, 9:54 pm, wrote: A question's come up regarding zoning requirements, to try to ensure
safe bicyclist access to drive-up windows. A person who's pushing for
that requirement was told that "safe bicyclist access" is probably too
vague to be meaningful or enforceable.

I find this topic quite amusing. My local bank, which I frequent with
some regularity on my bicycle, removed its pedestrian and wheelchair
friendly ATM station some years ago leaving only the drive up. The
drive up ATM, to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act, has
Braille instruction.

I'd wager that the ATM had braile even when there was a walk-up. The
drive-thru ATMs have braile because it's cheaper to make a million of
the same than 500,000 with and 500,000 without.


From the way the drivers often behave when I am
in line on my cycle ahead of them, the Braille is needed. They'll honk
and yell for me to use the walk-up. There is no walk-up. The drive
through is also the walk-up window. At least there are speed bumps,
but I pity the blind wheelchair user who must navigate over them
before searching for the Braille instruction on ATM use. I wonder if
the drivers honk at wheelchairs.

Those less fortunate and/or able tend to get a pass. Do they honk at
you before you're at the ATM, or when you're there? If they are
honking saying "use the walk-up" before you get there, I suggest
turning and saying "why don't you use the walk-up? It appears you're
the one who needs the exercise, I powered my vehicle here with my own
2 legs".

The only time I really see honking @ the ATM around here is when
someone completes their transaction but insists on spending another 3
minutes putting everything in it's proper place before pulling away.
In that case, I believe it's well deserved. Pull forward a car
length, stop, and then get your 20 things situated just right while
the person behind you is using the machine you're finished with.


I'd say if you want a bicycle safe-drive through, see to it that every
bank has a walk up window on a sidewalk or pedestrian area.

Walk-up is often going to be less convient than drive-up for a
cyclist.


That
should make it safer for pedestrians, cyclists, and the handicapped
until the SUV owners start using their offroad capabilities to drive
on sidwalks to avoid congestion on the streets and highways.

We already do that in some situations

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:55:05 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:


I'd wager that the ATM had braile even when there was a walk-up. The
drive-thru ATMs have braile because it's cheaper to make a million of
the same than 500,000 with and 500,000 without.

Dear Dank,

Actually, braille was required by law:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_010.html

Cheers,

Carl Fogel