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  #11  
Old June 24th 04, 07:09 PM
Mark Mitchell
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Default Bicycle trailers:

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Hash: SHA1

On 2004-06-24, David Kerber wrote:
In article ,
says...
Ron Hardin wrote:

Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight on the bike
isn't bad, but the combination of wind resistance from the trailer
and from the weight it carries tips the impression over the top that
you're really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear luggage rack
and do it that way. (I recommend a conventional rack with legs
PLUS the core innards of a seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized
as firmly to the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the
former bears the weight.)


why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack instead of pannier
bags?


To make it more theft resistant.

Plus a milk crate and some zip ties are *so* much cheaper.

Mark

- --
Remove both wrongs to make the email address right.

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  #12  
Old June 25th 04, 12:57 AM
Lorenzo L. Love
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Default Bicycle trailers:

Mark Mitchell wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2004-06-24, David Kerber wrote:

In article ,
says...

Ron Hardin wrote:


Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight on the bike
isn't bad, but the combination of wind resistance from the trailer
and from the weight it carries tips the impression over the top that
you're really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear luggage rack
and do it that way. (I recommend a conventional rack with legs
PLUS the core innards of a seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized
as firmly to the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the
former bears the weight.)

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack instead of pannier
bags?


To make it more theft resistant.


Plus a milk crate and some zip ties are *so* much cheaper.

Mark


The problem is that a milk crate on top of your rack puts your center of
gravity kind of high. Hang a milk crate off of each side of the rack
doubles the cargo space and keep the center of gravity low. Makes the
bike kind of wide though. Or you can use plastic buckets to make
panniers. See http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove/9Nov2002-04.JPG for some
rainproof panniers I made from cat litter buckets and a few dollars of
hardware.

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the fact that a
person can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a
newspaperman, but if a man doesn't drive there's something wrong with him."
Art Buchwald


  #13  
Old June 25th 04, 01:08 AM
Ron Hardin
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Default Bicycle trailers:

Lorenzo L. Love wrote:
The problem is that a milk crate on top of your rack puts your center of
gravity kind of high. Hang a milk crate off of each side of the rack
doubles the cargo space and keep the center of gravity low. Makes the
bike kind of wide though. Or you can use plastic buckets to make
panniers. See http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove/9Nov2002-04.JPG for some
rainproof panniers I made from cat litter buckets and a few dollars of
hardware.


There's no harm in a high cg; it makes you more stable, if anything. The
problem with it is rigidity and how to achieve it. If the load flops around
relative to the bike, the bike is very difficult to handle.

The double rack I described solves most of that, both legged and seat-post
versions in use at once.

Incidentally you have to put a piece of scrap wood sideways across the bottom of the
milk crate to distribute the load at the end of the rack; the crate will
have only about its front half on the rack, and you'll crack the plastic otherwise.
--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
  #14  
Old June 25th 04, 02:02 AM
The Queen of Cans and Jars
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Default Bicycle trailers:

Ron Hardin wrote:

The Queen of Cans and Jars wrote:

Ron Hardin wrote:

Trailers slow you down a lot. Factor that in to your desires.

An empty trailer isn't bad, and carrying lots of weight on the bike
isn't bad, but the combination of wind resistance from the trailer
and from the weight it carries tips the impression over the top that
you're really being slowed down.

So if you need gear, put a milk crate on a sturdy rear luggage rack
and do it that way. (I recommend a conventional rack with legs
PLUS the core innards of a seat-post rack under it, so it's stabilized
as firmly to the frame as possible; the latter prevents sway and the
former bears the weight.)


why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack instead of pannier
bags?


It holds more, you can hang excess on the side, or drape over the thing;
when not in use it's out of the wind and rigid on the frame.

I've never bought more than I could carry, ever, using one. The extreme
is using my 6' cable lock as a 3' loop looped through shopping bags, and
sling the whole thing over the top of what's in the milk crate.

It's completely waterproof if you simply put everything in a garbage bag
and twisty tie it shut, on days when you want it waterproof.

It beats panniers by so far that it's not even on the same planet.


i've never had any problem fitting everything i needed to fit into my
pannier bags. and, as an added bonus, i don't have to ride around with
a friggin' milk crate on my rack.

don't get me wrong - if it works for you, okey doke. i'm not interested
in arguing with you about it. but i think that it's aesthetically and
functionally inferior, and that even if you don't want to use panniers
there are far better solutions.

you go on with your bad milk crate, though. have fun with it.
  #15  
Old June 25th 04, 02:02 AM
The Queen of Cans and Jars
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Default Bicycle trailers:

Rick Onanian wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:10:38 GMT, (The Queen
of Cans and Jars) wrote:

why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack instead of pannier
bags?


So Fabrizio will have a heart attack if you ride faster than him.


fabrizio? that's the guy from the "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!"
commercials, right?

  #17  
Old June 25th 04, 03:16 AM
Mike Kruger
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Default Bicycle trailers:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote in message
news:1gfwchx.1xbaq281o4mewlN%
why on earth would you put a milk crate on your rack instead of

pannier
bags?



i've never had any problem fitting everything i needed to fit into my
pannier bags. and, as an added bonus, i don't have to ride around with
a friggin' milk crate on my rack.

don't get me wrong - if it works for you, okey doke. i'm not interested
in arguing with you about it. but i think that it's aesthetically and
functionally inferior, and that even if you don't want to use panniers
there are far better solutions.

you go on with your bad milk crate, though. have fun with it.


1. A milk crate costs about $3 at a hardware store, and most people already
have one. Panniers are more expensive.
2. The dorky look of a milk crate serves as an effective anti-theft device
for the entire bike. It marks the rider as somebody not worth mugging,
because how much money could they possibly have? Certainly it's hard to
imagine stealing the milk crate itself. Panniers make a bike look more
attractive, and can be stolen easily if left on the bike.
3. The milk crate doesn't need any extra attention in rain.
4. You can stick a backpack in a milk crate more easily than in panniers,
which is an advantage for students.
5. No heel strike problems with a milk crate.
6. The back of the milk crate makes a nice surface for bumper stickers
containing the irritating political slogan of your choice.

I've used both, and prefer panniers. The humble milk crate is not without
appeal, however.


  #18  
Old June 25th 04, 03:19 AM
Leo Lichtman
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Default Bicycle trailers:


"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote: (clip) i think that it's aesthetically
and functionally inferior (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^
Can anyone comment on the effect on handling of the high center of gravity
of a rack-mounted crate vs. the lower center of panniers? Seems to me the
panniers would be less leable to "wag the bike."


  #19  
Old June 25th 04, 03:19 AM
Leo Lichtman
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Default Bicycle trailers:


"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote: (clip) rainproof panniers I made from cat litter
buckets and a few dollars of hardware.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now I'm going to bring this discussion full circle. I think those panniers
are really neat, but it looks like they would add as much wind resistance as
a trailer.



  #20  
Old June 25th 04, 03:29 AM
The Queen of Cans and Jars
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Default Bicycle trailers:

Mike Kruger wrote:

"The Queen of Cans and Jars" wrote:

i've never had any problem fitting everything i needed to fit into my
pannier bags. and, as an added bonus, i don't have to ride around with
a friggin' milk crate on my rack.

don't get me wrong - if it works for you, okey doke. i'm not interested
in arguing with you about it. but i think that it's aesthetically and
functionally inferior, and that even if you don't want to use panniers
there are far better solutions.

you go on with your bad milk crate, though. have fun with it.


1. A milk crate costs about $3 at a hardware store, and most people already
have one. Panniers are more expensive.


smart shoppers find good deals when they need them.

2. The dorky look of a milk crate serves as an effective anti-theft device
for the entire bike. It marks the rider as somebody not worth mugging,
because how much money could they possibly have? Certainly it's hard to
imagine stealing the milk crate itself. Panniers make a bike look more
attractive, and can be stolen easily if left on the bike.


they can also be easily locked, or removed and carried.

3. The milk crate doesn't need any extra attention in rain.


i don't ride in the rain.

4. You can stick a backpack in a milk crate more easily than in panniers,
which is an advantage for students.


i could fit three backpacks in my pannier bags.

5. No heel strike problems with a milk crate.


nor with my panniers.

6. The back of the milk crate makes a nice surface for bumper stickers
containing the irritating political slogan of your choice.


i don't put bumperstickers on my car, so why would i put them on my
bike?

I've used both, and prefer panniers. The humble milk crate is not without
appeal, however.


except for the fact that they're hideous, of course.
 




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