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OT - Failure of Society



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 22nd 11, 07:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Ron Ruff
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Posts: 1,304
Default OT - Failure of Society

On Jun 21, 8:18*pm, Tșm ShermȘn °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
But the catastrophe is not necessary - a one-time wealth tax on the
super rich would fix the problem.


But has zero chance of happening for a million other reasons you've
mentioned.
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  #12  
Old June 22nd 11, 08:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Edward Dolan
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Posts: 14,212
Default OT - Failure of Society

"Ron Ruff" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 11:29 am, Chalo wrote:
That's not true. The super rich are not fairly taxed, and are not
currently putting their fortunes to uses that benefit society as a
whole.


I think you are missing the point... paying down the debt will result

in money being removed from the economy... at the time when we can
least afford to do it. It would be very painful.

I strongly suspect two things are going to happen before too long. We are
indeed going to pay down the debt, but we are also going to raise taxes on
the wealthy which will include the upper middle class, not just the super
rich. If the economy suffers overall as a result, so be it! Better some pain
than a total meltdown.

Since I am as poor as a church mouse, it will not effect me.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


  #13  
Old June 24th 11, 05:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
TÂșm ShermÂȘn °_°
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Posts: 413
Default OT - Failure of Society

On 6/22/2011 12:09 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tïżœm Shermïżœn " wrote in message
...
On 6/21/2011 1:19 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
wrote in message
...
Ron Ruff wrote:

The reason why Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II ran up huge deficits was
because it does in fact boost the economy. Of course this is
temporary. It's like putting extra spending money on the credit
card.
They did this to mask the fact that their socio-economic policies
were
gutting the middle class and ruining our economy. Then the pile of
financial fraud (a separate issue) finally hit the fan in 2008...
and
because the debt was already so high, we have no effective
response.

Paying down the debt will further tank the economy... there is no
way
around it... we are damned either way.

That's not true. The super rich are not fairly taxed, and are not
currently putting their fortunes to uses that benefit society as a
whole. The appearance of gratuitous, pointless financial derivatives
like CDOs were naked evidence of two things: taxation of the ultra-
wealthy was too low, and there were not enough disincentives for
economically unproductive investments. The result was destructively
rich people inventing destructive ways to try to multiply their
already excessive fortunes-- and predictably, the crash that
followed.

Let us say all of the above is true. Have either the Dems or Repubs ever
done anything to prevent any of it? I think not.
[...]


Both wings of the duopoly are primarily funded by the same Wall Street
interests, so both fail to represent the people.


Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps both the Repubs and the Dems
represent the people perfectly?

If you mean "the ten thousand or so richest families" by "the people",
why yes.

Without publicly funded elections and instant runoff voting, democracy is
dead at the federal and state levels in the US.


Democracy, like capitalism, is not perfect but it is still better than all
other systems.

Not for those who lust after power over others.

--
TÂșm ShermÂȘn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #14  
Old June 24th 11, 06:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
TÂșm ShermÂȘn °_°
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 413
Default OT - Failure of Society

On 6/22/2011 2:38 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
"Ron wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 11:29 am, wrote:
That's not true. The super rich are not fairly taxed, and are not
currently putting their fortunes to uses that benefit society as a
whole.


I think you are missing the point... paying down the debt will result

in money being removed from the economy... at the time when we can
least afford to do it. It would be very painful.

I strongly suspect two things are going to happen before too long. We are
indeed going to pay down the debt, but we are also going to raise taxes on
the wealthy which will include the upper middle class, not just the super
rich. If the economy suffers overall as a result, so be it! Better some pain
than a total meltdown.

Since I am as poor as a church mouse, it will not effect me.

Typical - the rich loot the treasury, and the working people pick up the
tab. When the mainstream in the US finally admits that they have been
"had", things will get ugly.

--
TÂșm ShermÂȘn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #15  
Old June 24th 11, 08:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,212
Default OT - Failure of Society

"Tșm ShermȘn °_°" " wrote in message
...
On 6/22/2011 12:09 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps both the Repubs and the Dems
represent the people perfectly?

If you mean "the ten thousand or so richest families" by "the people", why
yes.


Nope, I mean you and me!

Without publicly funded elections and instant runoff voting, democracy
is
dead at the federal and state levels in the US.


Democracy, like capitalism, is not perfect but it is still better than
all
other systems.

Not for those who lust after power over others.


You mean like you?

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


  #16  
Old June 24th 11, 08:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,212
Default OT - Failure of Society

"Tșm ShermȘn °_°" " wrote in message
...
On 6/22/2011 2:38 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
I strongly suspect two things are going to happen before too long. We are
indeed going to pay down the debt, but we are also going to raise taxes
on
the wealthy which will include the upper middle class, not just the super
rich. If the economy suffers overall as a result, so be it! Better some
pain
than a total meltdown.

Since I am as poor as a church mouse, it will not effect me.

Typical - the rich loot the treasury, and the working people pick up the
tab. When the mainstream in the US finally admits that they have been
"had", things will get ugly.


The mainstream media will never desert Obama, the first Black president. It
is just too, too politically correct!

As for being had, everyone already knows that. Maybe your man Nader could do
something about it?

By the way, it is the job of the intellectual class (especially academics)
to justify the ways of society to its members. Any other course is
treasonous.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



  #17  
Old June 25th 11, 03:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
TÂșm ShermÂȘn °_°
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 413
Default OT - Failure of Society

On 6/24/2011 2:47 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tïżœm Shermïżœn " wrote in message
...
On 6/22/2011 12:09 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps both the Repubs and the Dems
represent the people perfectly?

If you mean "the ten thousand or so richest families" by "the people", why
yes.


Nope, I mean you and me!

Mr. Ed Dolan is either an fool or a troll.

Without publicly funded elections and instant runoff voting, democracy
is
dead at the federal and state levels in the US.

Democracy, like capitalism, is not perfect but it is still better than
all
other systems.

Not for those who lust after power over others.


You mean like you?

Mr. Ed Dolan is either an fool or a troll.

--
TÂșm ShermÂȘn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #18  
Old June 25th 11, 03:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
TÂșm ShermÂȘn °_°
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 413
Default OT - Failure of Society

On 6/24/2011 2:55 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
"Tïżœm Shermïżœn " wrote in message
...
On 6/22/2011 2:38 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
I strongly suspect two things are going to happen before too long. We are
indeed going to pay down the debt, but we are also going to raise taxes
on
the wealthy which will include the upper middle class, not just the super
rich. If the economy suffers overall as a result, so be it! Better some
pain
than a total meltdown.

Since I am as poor as a church mouse, it will not effect me.

Typical - the rich loot the treasury, and the working people pick up the
tab. When the mainstream in the US finally admits that they have been
"had", things will get ugly.


The mainstream media will never desert Obama, the first Black president. It
is just too, too politically correct!

Mr. Ed Dolan is either an fool or a troll.

As for being had, everyone already knows that. Maybe your man Nader could do
something about it?

It would take a President Nader, a truly progressive Congress,
impeachment of the right-wing political activists on the Supreme Court,
and the support of the people to change things. Recall the "Business
Plot" to overthrow FDR and Congress in 1933 and install a fascist regime.

By the way, it is the job of the intellectual class (especially academics)
to justify the ways of society to its members. Any other course is
treasonous.

It is the moral imperative to speak truth to power. Doing otherwise is
the worst form of moral prostitution.

--
TÂșm ShermÂȘn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #19  
Old June 25th 11, 10:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,212
Default OT - Failure of Society

"Tșm ShermȘn °_°" " wrote in message
...
On 6/24/2011 2:47 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
Democracy, like capitalism, is not perfect but it is still better than
all
other systems.

Not for those who lust after power over others.


You mean like you?

Mr. Ed Dolan is either an fool or a troll.


Socialist-Communist societies are all about control by an elite over the
masses. That is all you are about too, never realizing that you would not be
of that elite. The only fool here is you.

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


  #20  
Old June 25th 11, 10:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Edward Dolan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14,212
Default OT - Failure of Society

"Tșm ShermȘn °_°" " wrote in message
...
On 6/24/2011 2:55 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:

[...]
The mainstream media will never desert Obama, the first Black president.
It
is just too, too politically correct!

Mr. Ed Dolan is either an fool or a troll.


The only fool here is you.

As for being had, everyone already knows that. Maybe your man Nader could
do
something about it?

It would take a President Nader, a truly progressive Congress, impeachment
of the right-wing political activists on the Supreme Court, and the
support of the people to change things. Recall the "Business Plot" to
overthrow FDR and Congress in 1933 and install a fascist regime.


In other words, your man Nader could never do **** about anything! **** that
Asshole!

By the way, it is the job of the intellectual class (especially
academics)
to justify the ways of society to its members. Any other course is
treasonous.

It is the moral imperative to speak truth to power. Doing otherwise is
the worst form of moral prostitution.


Nope, "truth" is always allusive and it is not the job of academic
intellectuals to undermine whatever the society is paying them to do, i.e.,
educate the young in the ways of that particular social order. Sociology 101

--
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



 




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