tandem drafting etiquette

My husband and I have been riding the tandem almost every
Sunday now for the last three years, and have finally got in
good enough shape that not only do our friends draft us
but it is increasingly common for strangers to hop on the
wheel, and not only on downhills anymore. So, what,
exactly, are we (or more likely, I the stoker) supposed to
be doing in regard to our fellow cyclists? My husband points
out any road hazards. But how do signal we are slowing or
stopping? And how do you signal turning without whacking
the guy on your wheel? I do wear a mirror (and yes it does
look dorky, but I'm already on a softride tandem, so what
the heck) and I do sit up, and take my hands off the handle
bars when we start to slow down. But often that leads to
me elbowing the drafter as he attempts to pass on the right.
(I swear my elbows don't extend past the end of the handle
bars, but they tend to be a bit close at that point.) Are
there signals that don't have you extending your arm that
they can see on the right or the left? And what exactly are
they? Is it okay to turn around and tell them we are going
to be turning at the next light? (These are folks that hopped
on without saying anything, so I'm not sure if they appreciate
verbal directions. Actually, I think they are hoping we haven't
noticed them there.)

I want to make clear we don't mind folks hanging on, I just
don't want to hurt them. Just last week we were hauling
on our last two miles into to coffee, in a slightly uphill stretch
my husband likes to go all out on. At the beginning we were
passed by two guys that looked like they were sprinting for
who pays for coffee, leaving their third friend in the dust.
Just as their third friend caught up to us we got in the grove
and started hauling, he grabbed our wheel. As we surged
past his friend with him on our wheel he gave them the
biggest grin, and they groaned and caught up. My husband,
who often rides this on his carbon fiber bike without me
said he hit a personal best on this stretch that day, and
they all thanked us for the pull.

This is a good question and one that is discussed sporadically on the
tandem@hobbes list . Go to www.thetandemlink.com (a great place for all
tandem info) to see how to access this group.
Len D
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
m...
My husband and I have been riding the tandem almost every
Sunday now for the last three years, and have finally got in
good enough shape that not only do our friends draft us
but it is increasingly common for strangers to hop on the
wheel, and not only on downhills anymore. So, what,
exactly, are we (or more likely, I the stoker) supposed to
be doing in regard to our fellow cyclists? My husband points
out any road hazards. But how do signal we are slowing or
stopping? And how do you signal turning without whacking
the guy on your wheel? I do wear a mirror (and yes it does
look dorky, but I'm already on a softride tandem, so what
the heck) and I do sit up, and take my hands off the handle
bars when we start to slow down. But often that leads to
me elbowing the drafter as he attempts to pass on the right.
(I swear my elbows don't extend past the end of the handle
bars, but they tend to be a bit close at that point.) Are
there signals that don't have you extending your arm that
they can see on the right or the left? And what exactly are
they? Is it okay to turn around and tell them we are going
to be turning at the next light? (These are folks that hopped
on without saying anything, so I'm not sure if they appreciate
verbal directions. Actually, I think they are hoping we haven't
noticed them there.)

I want to make clear we don't mind folks hanging on, I just
don't want to hurt them. Just last week we were hauling
on our last two miles into to coffee, in a slightly uphill stretch
my husband likes to go all out on. At the beginning we were
passed by two guys that looked like they were sprinting for
who pays for coffee, leaving their third friend in the dust.
Just as their third friend caught up to us we got in the grove
and started hauling, he grabbed our wheel. As we surged
past his friend with him on our wheel he gave them the
biggest grin, and they groaned and caught up. My husband,
who often rides this on his carbon fiber bike without me
said he hit a personal best on this stretch that day, and
they all thanked us for the pull.

You pose a question that I have wondered about myself. I captain a tandem,
and on occasion have looked in the mirror (or have been told by stoker) that
see we don't know is drafting us. How long had he/she been there, I don't
know. I do know it would have been nice to know there were there before
happening to notice them in my mirror. Once we know they are there we signal
as if on a club ride for our own safety as well as theirs.
Harry

Not one drafter has ever let me or my stoker know they were there. Without
knowing that they were there I would ride accordingly and thereby creating a
potential hazard
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
m...
My husband and I have been riding the tandem almost every
Sunday now for the last three years, and have finally got in
good enough shape that not only do our friends draft us
but it is increasingly common for strangers to hop on the
wheel, and not only on downhills anymore. So, what,
exactly, are we (or more likely, I the stoker) supposed to
be doing in regard to our fellow cyclists? My husband points
out any road hazards. But how do signal we are slowing or
stopping? And how do you signal turning without whacking
the guy on your wheel? I do wear a mirror (and yes it does
look dorky, but I'm already on a softride tandem, so what
the heck) and I do sit up, and take my hands off the handle
bars when we start to slow down. But often that leads to
me elbowing the drafter as he attempts to pass on the right.
(I swear my elbows don't extend past the end of the handle
bars, but they tend to be a bit close at that point.) Are
there signals that don't have you extending your arm that
they can see on the right or the left? And what exactly are
they? Is it okay to turn around and tell them we are going
to be turning at the next light? (These are folks that hopped
on without saying anything, so I'm not sure if they appreciate
verbal directions. Actually, I think they are hoping we haven't
noticed them there.)

I want to make clear we don't mind folks hanging on, I just
don't want to hurt them. Just last week we were hauling
on our last two miles into to coffee, in a slightly uphill stretch
my husband likes to go all out on. At the beginning we were
passed by two guys that looked like they were sprinting for
who pays for coffee, leaving their third friend in the dust.
Just as their third friend caught up to us we got in the grove
and started hauling, he grabbed our wheel. As we surged
past his friend with him on our wheel he gave them the
biggest grin, and they groaned and caught up. My husband,
who often rides this on his carbon fiber bike without me
said he hit a personal best on this stretch that day, and
they all thanked us for the pull.

When I first started tandeming I would frequent that list. My mailbox was
filling up, or
I would get a "digest" that was huge and impossible to sift through. I'm
not interested in
wheel wars or other techie discussions, so on hobbes, like on most other
newsgroups, I'm
interested in reading at most 20% of the discussion. I never figured out
how to quickly
look at just the subjects and skip what I'm not interested in. (Like I do
on this news group.)
Has the tandem hobbes group been turned into a newsgroup yet, so I can use a
newsreader?
Or is there a way to do that with the way it was set up?

Cathy


"Len Diamond" wrote in message
news0TRc.1972$Po1.1731@trndny08...
This is a good question and one that is discussed sporadically on the
tandem@hobbes list . Go to www.thetandemlink.com (a great place for all
tandem info) to see how to access this group.
Len D
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
m...
My husband and I have been riding the tandem almost every
Sunday now for the last three years, and have finally got in
good enough shape that not only do our friends draft us
but it is increasingly common for strangers to hop on the
wheel, and not only on downhills anymore. So, what,
exactly, are we (or more likely, I the stoker) supposed to
be doing in regard to our fellow cyclists? My husband points
out any road hazards. But how do signal we are slowing or
stopping? And how do you signal turning without whacking
the guy on your wheel? I do wear a mirror (and yes it does
look dorky, but I'm already on a softride tandem, so what
the heck) and I do sit up, and take my hands off the handle
bars when we start to slow down. But often that leads to
me elbowing the drafter as he attempts to pass on the right.
(I swear my elbows don't extend past the end of the handle
bars, but they tend to be a bit close at that point.) Are
there signals that don't have you extending your arm that
they can see on the right or the left? And what exactly are
they? Is it okay to turn around and tell them we are going
to be turning at the next light? (These are folks that hopped
on without saying anything, so I'm not sure if they appreciate
verbal directions. Actually, I think they are hoping we haven't
noticed them there.)

I want to make clear we don't mind folks hanging on, I just
don't want to hurt them. Just last week we were hauling
on our last two miles into to coffee, in a slightly uphill stretch
my husband likes to go all out on. At the beginning we were
passed by two guys that looked like they were sprinting for
who pays for coffee, leaving their third friend in the dust.
Just as their third friend caught up to us we got in the grove
and started hauling, he grabbed our wheel. As we surged
past his friend with him on our wheel he gave them the
biggest grin, and they groaned and caught up. My husband,
who often rides this on his carbon fiber bike without me
said he hit a personal best on this stretch that day, and
they all thanked us for the pull.

, I the stoker) supposed to
be doing in regard to our fellow cyclists?

If they do not ask if they can draft, you have absolutely no obligation to them
whatsoever. They are tailgaiters.

But how do signal we are slowing or
stopping?

I think in that case the captain would signal with the old hand down signal
(arm out straight bent 90 degrees at the elbow so the rest of the arm is
pointed straight down with the palm of the hand facing back)- which is standard
for stopping and slowing.

And how do you signal turning without whacking
the guy on your wheel?

He shouldn't be where you can whack him. If he is, it is his own fault. He
does have some responsibilities.

I do sit up, and take my hands off the handle
bars when we start to slow down. But often that leads to
me elbowing the drafter as he attempts to pass on the right.

Again that is his look out. If he is drafting, he is supposed to hold his
position behind you. If you are coasting into a light or something he can pull
up alongside but again if he does so, it is responsibility to keep clear of
you.

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 14:00:15 -0400, Cathy Kearns wrote:

My husband and I have been riding the tandem almost every Sunday now for
the last three years, and have finally got in good enough shape that not
only do our friends draft us but it is increasingly common for strangers
to hop on the wheel, and not only on downhills anymore. So, what,
exactly, are we (or more likely, I the stoker) supposed to be doing in
regard to our fellow cyclists? My husband points out any road hazards.
But how do signal we are slowing or stopping? And how do you signal
turning without whacking the guy on your wheel?


If somebody's drafting you that close you ought to whack them. You can
give turn signals by extending left or right arm palm facing forward,
fingers extended, thumbs up; you can signal slowing by extending left arm
/ == like that thumb down, palm facing rear, or you can yell BRAKING!!!


I do wear a mirror (and
yes it does look dorky, but I'm already on a softride tandem, so what
the heck) and I do sit up, and take my hands off the handle bars when we
start to slow down. But often that leads to me elbowing the drafter as
he attempts to pass on the right. (I swear my elbows don't extend past
the end of the handle bars, but they tend to be a bit close at that
point.) Are there signals that don't have you extending your arm that
they can see on the right or the left? And what exactly are they?


You could also try asking loudly "Please get the %$*@ off my wheel!"

Is
it okay to turn around and tell them we are going to be turning at the
next light? (These are folks that hopped on without saying anything,
so


That is very not OK, and you can demonstrate it to them if you like, just
by braking hard. Don't worry - if they hit you, they, not you, are going
down.

When a tandem captain sees something untoward up front that requires
braking, they will often brake very hard, since tandems have tremendous
momentum and no captain wants to end up like that train in the movie
Silver Streak. Because the stoker is on the back holding it down, a
tandem can brake very much harder than a single without risking rear wheel
lift. I don't let anybody draft me when I'm riding tandem who doesn't
understand that.

wrote in part:


If they do not ask if they can draft, you have absolutely no obligation to
them
whatsoever. They are tailgaiters.

Most of the tandems I encounter are being ridden slower than I go solo (I think
it is a tandem sociability thing. They seem to like to talk more than they like
to hammer.) so I don't often draft them but this statement raises an
interesting question. How does one ask permission to draft a tandem? Before
I'll draft a solo biker I'll pull up and ask them if they mind if I do and at
the same time offer to take my turn pulling. Who do you ask on a tandem and
what if the answer isn't unanimous? g

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Hunrobe wrote:





wrote in part:




If they do not ask if they can draft, you have absolutely no obligation to
them
whatsoever. They are tailgaiters.



Most of the tandems I encounter are being ridden slower than I go solo (I think
it is a tandem sociability thing. They seem to like to talk more than they like
to hammer.) so I don't often draft them but this statement raises an
interesting question. How does one ask permission to draft a tandem? Before
I'll draft a solo biker I'll pull up and ask them if they mind if I do and at
the same time offer to take my turn pulling. Who do you ask on a tandem and
what if the answer isn't unanimous? g

Regards,
Bob Hunt




Just ask!

My wife and I really enjoy riding in a group and appreciate a good pull
as much as a half bike would. I think the most frustrating thing for a
tandem is that everyone always wants to be on our wheel on downhills and
flats because of the huge draft we throw. Then when we hit an uphill
where we are slower, and yes tandems are very often slower uphill
regardless of the fact we have four legs, the group pays no attention to
the fact that we are going off the back and getting dropped. assuming
after a signifigant effort by us we can get back into the group this
process is repeated throughout the ride. This tends to get a little
frustrating. Slow a little and help the tandem up the hill by letting
them draft you.

Also keep in mind that a tandem will most probably be carrying around
300-400 pounds and does not stop or handle as quick as a half bike, give
a little extra room. Often when we ride in groups inexperienced rider
will pin us against the edge of the road or ride far too close which
really limits my choices of what to do if I have to emergency stop. I
can either run them over, plow into the rider ahead of us (remember we
have a longer stopping distance), or take it off the road, none of which
is a very attractive option. If we are not pinned against the side of
the road or have a little extra room I would have the option of veering
farther out into the road or going around the trouble.

I have seen a tandem crash into other bikers, its not pretty. Just
remember that there is a lot of momentum and weight behind that bike and
if someone does something stupid you are all more likely than not going
to pay for it!

Take Care
Chris

(Hunrobe) wrote:

Most of the tandems I encounter are being ridden slower than I go solo (I think
it is a tandem sociability thing. They seem to like to talk more than they like
to hammer.)

Careful though - us tandemites like it when people think that. In
reality, they're VERY fast if the riders are putting in a decent
effort. My wife and I used to blow by all the half-bike riders on A1A
in Florida, and only the fastest of them could even hang onto our rear
wheel.

Another "truth" about tandems is that they don't climb well, so we'd
almost always get jumped by the rider behind us on the one (small but
surprisingly steep) hill on A1A - since the "summit" was a popular
stopping point. We'd normally cruise up to the hill at about 24, then
stand and accelerate to about 28-30 when they tried to pass. They
never made it for some reason... ;-)

So yeah, there ARE some twofers out there that are moving above
"social speed"... ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 18:00:15 +0000, Cathy Kearns wrote:

I want to make clear we don't mind folks hanging on, I just don't want to
hurt them.

Do what I do when they don't ask permission: fart.

LOL

I was cruising up towards 30 mph and did that the other day, not knowing
that a guy was sucking my wheel, I heard a faint "Oh God!" after sitting
back down and that clued me in.