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#41
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All's not fair in love and science
On 5/7/2017 5:02 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 11:02:47 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sun, 7 May 2017 07:51:34 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: I was sitting at the graduation ceremony next to a guy who was also from Oregon and who, amazingly, knew my wife's family in Hillsboro. His daughter was getting a masters in accounting. He will never again have to rely on Turbo Tax. One word: accounting. It's the future. -- Jay Beattie. If the family thinks that their daughter is going to provide free tax services, they're in for a major disappointment. I have a friend with 3 daughters. All have degrees in various specialties. One is a doctor. The doctor refuses to discuss "business" with the parents and only provides medical advice when pressured. I did much the same to my father. When he wanted something repaired, I did everything possible to avoid taking on the repair and its associated lifetime warranty. The relatives also had similar expectations. When I would come home to visit, a collection of things to repair was waiting for me. Even if the daughter agrees to do the taxes for the family, it will likely be the lowest priority task. Given the choice of working on a lucrative clients tax return, or the family return for free, the family return is likely to require several extensions and become a rush job for the very last moment. As for accounting being the future, it's possible. We're heading for a service economy where everything involving product manufacture is outsourced to former 3rd world countries. Profit will then be generated by whomever makes the best deals, or supplies the biggest bribes. Hiding these behind a wall of numbers cooked for the occasion will be important with accountants providing the necessary financial creativity. Doctors are ethically prohibited from treating immediate family members, subject to certain exceptions. http://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/...oet1-1205.html So your friend's daughter at least has an excuse for not treating her father. My sister is an accountant (among other things), and she does pro bono tax returns for poor people, which always seemed odd -- endless 1040 EZ forms? But, as it turns out, she does a lot of returns for illegal immigrants in Sonoma County (grape pickers, among others), and they have odd issues -- like paying into our Social Security system. They get a special "look the other way" number, and just like a roach motel, the money goes in, but it doesn't come out -- except to current citizen retirees. And now that Trump is cracking the whip on illegal immigration, the grape growers are have trouble getting their grapes picked. The legals won't pick grapes for $16/hr. https://www.marketplace.org/2017/03/...-farm-wages-go Hmm. Sounds like the price of American-grown wine will be heading up. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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#42
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All's not fair in love and science
On Sun, 7 May 2017 14:02:37 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: Doctors are ethically prohibited from treating immediate family members, subject to certain exceptions. http://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/...oet1-1205.html So your friend's daughter at least has an excuse for not treating her father. This was not about treating her father. It was about discussing a medical situation, doing a sanity check, or asking for suggestions as to what to do next. I can see why treating family members is a bad idea, but this was a total blackout of any communications involving medical issues. My sister is an accountant (among other things), and she does pro bono tax returns for poor people, which always seemed odd -- endless 1040 EZ forms? But, as it turns out, she does a lot of returns for illegal immigrants in Sonoma County (grape pickers, among others), and they have odd issues -- like paying into our Social Security system. They get a special "look the other way" number, and just like a roach motel, the money goes in, but it doesn't come out -- except to current citizen retirees. And now that Trump is cracking the whip on illegal immigration, the grape growers are have trouble getting their grapes picked. The legals won't pick grapes for $16/hr. https://www.marketplace.org/2017/03/...-farm-wages-go Employers are required to collect withholding and unemployment insurance from employees. For illegals, they pay into the system, but without a social security number and history, they can't pay taxes or collect benefits. My father owned a lingerie factory in Smog Angeles and had similar problems. It was common to have 5 or more employees using the same social security number. I have no idea if they actually were able to collect on this scheme, or how the various government agencies managed to untangle the mess. "IRS Admits It Encourages Illegals To Steal Social Security Numbers For Taxes" https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2016/04/13/irs-admits-it-encourages-illegals-to-steal-social-security-numbers-for-taxes/ An aquaintence runs a local landscaping business. He was criticized in the papers for not hiring anglo workers or students to do the grunt work. He wrote a reply, which was printed, indicating that he had tried to hire anglos and students, but nobody would work for the wages offered. That was about 10 years ago, long before the current administration. A friends son is doing his masters thesis on modeling the US economy if everything was produced and manufacturered domestically using domestic labor. It's not done, but the preliminary scribblings I've read sounded like my worst economic nightmare. Does your sister do taxes for the rest of the family? I'm just curious. I know one accountant who refuses to do taxes for his two sons. His logic is that it's something the kids need to learn while the dollar amounts are still small, so that they will understand how taxes work when they begin making more money. My father gave me the same "advice". I think it worked. I told my son he could pick grapes in Napa for $40K a year with benefits, but he wasn't interested. Slacker! Presumably, he considered what he would do after his back gave out or if we had another drought. I did some stoop labor while in college. The local growers would hire extra help during the harvest. I lasted about 3 days. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#43
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All's not fair in love and science
On Sun, 7 May 2017 11:53:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 5/6/2017 11:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: "23 Famous Dropouts Who Turned Out Just Fine" https://www.buzzfeed.com/ashleyperez/23-famous-dropouts-who-turned-out-just-fine "8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College" https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/249683 I believe very strongly that there are many people in college who should not be there, either because they lack the intellectual horsepower, or because there are other pursuits that would do them and us much more good. But to examine your lists in context, we should compare with the list of people who dropped out of college and did badly. Also with the list of people who never started college and did badly. I'm thinking those are longer lists. I don't believe that formal education or lack there of is really a major factor in whether one is a "success", depending of course upon the definition of success. I worked with a guy, for example, who probably didn't have an 8th grade education and had difficulty composing a letter. He was making something in the neighborhood of a million dollars a year building oil drilling locations in remote areas of Indonesia. In contrast there was a bloke, "Dr. Stone, dead now, but in his career with the company never rose above the position of Deputy Project Manager. But note the difference is in the term "formal". Dr. Stone, who had a doctorate in library sciences, may have been an ace at the Dewey Decimal System but the other guy, who was what is called a "Dirt Stiff" had gone to work driving a bulldozer when he was 14 years old and I've sat in meeting with him and a potential client and he'd be scratching on the back of a used envelope and finally he'd sit up straight and say something like, "We can do that job for $3,296.50 a day and it will take us 37 days to complete it, not including mob and de-mob. And he'd be right. |
#44
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All's not fair in love and science
On Sun, 7 May 2017 15:34:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 5/7/2017 2:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sun, 7 May 2017 11:53:20 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/6/2017 11:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: "23 Famous Dropouts Who Turned Out Just Fine" https://www.buzzfeed.com/ashleyperez/23-famous-dropouts-who-turned-out-just-fine "8 Hugely Successful People Who Didn't Graduate College" https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/249683 I believe very strongly that there are many people in college who should not be there, either because they lack the intellectual horsepower, or because there are other pursuits that would do them and us much more good. Probably true. The problem is that it's not always obvious until AFTER they have entered college, that they are unsuited for a college education. Even if the student is academically deficient, there is usually an attempt by relatives to "try it for a few semesters and see if you like it" style of encouragement. There's also a big problem of motivation. One might assume that everyone in college is there "to get an education". Far from the case and it was much worse in the 1960's when the draft was going full blast. College was where one hid from the draft, found a husband, fulfilled the expectations of the family, burned some government program money for minorities, avoided having to go to work, etc... Yet another problem is guidance counseling in American high schools. At least around here, guidance counselors get big brownie points if a kid they counseled gets into a prestige school, and some brownie points if a kid gets into any college. They barely get a nod if a kid becomes a machinist, welder, plumber, carpenter, heavy equipment operator. But we need those guys (and girls). And they deserve more respect. (For all I know, a counselor may get their salary docked if a kid becomes an electronic repairman or a bike shop owner.) So the guidance counselors try to push everyone into college. Needless to say, the accountability stops there. If the kid flunks out and that makes him get depressed, turn to drugs and alcohol and enter a life of crime, the guidance counselor hears no flack. When I was 17 or 18, I really had no idea what to do with my life. I was considering fields as disparate as music, graphic arts, science and more. So I took the initiative to go to the guidance counselor and say "You've given me all those achievement and aptitude and attitude tests. What do they show? What should I do?" The guy looked at my test results and said "It doesn't matter. You'll do fine no matter what you do," and pushed me out the door. I'll concede, I did do fine. But I would have felt much better if I were able to attack the career problem with some competent guidance. I honestly think guiding young people into appropriate careers would be one of the best things we could do for society. As it is, when most people are asked how they like their job, the typical answer "Eh, it's OK." I worked with a machinist in California who insisted that his son learn a trade before he went to collage. His theory was that a guy could always get a job working with his hands no matter how bad the economy. Anyway, the son "apprenticed" to a butcher and learned enough that he (with his father's financing) opened a butcher shop that targeted those that demanded only the very best and are prepared to pay for it. He ended up making so much money that he never did go to collage :-) But I also suspect that personality enters into the equation. After all, there are people who can, literally, " sell iceboxes to Eskimos" and others much happier lurking in some dim laboratory developing a new brand of laundry soap :-) |
#45
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All's not fair in love and science
On Sun, 07 May 2017 10:47:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Sun, 07 May 2017 18:37:05 +0700, John B Slocomb wrote: On Sat, 06 May 2017 20:47:00 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Sat, 06 May 2017 07:37:23 -0500, AMuzi wrote: p.s. Here's a pithy analysis I enjoyed greatly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8utmmWoBSBY The problem is why people go to college. Conventional wisdom suggests that it's to obtain a diploma, which is considered a guarantee of success in future employment. This is totally wrong. College was original where the upper classes sent their sons to receive instruction in how to act like a proper gentlemen and member of the upper class. That meant a classical education: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_classical_studies which included proficiency in ancient Greek and Latin. There were also classes in history, from the perspective of the elite. Etiquette, propriety, dueling, dance, proper dress, etc were taught so that they would know how to act at social events. Overall, such an education worked well for the intended purpose. Things started to go astray when members of the GUM (great unwashed masses) noticed that wealthy children were going to college. They logically deduced that if they also went to college, they too would become wealthy. Interchanging cause and effect is a problem among the GUM. So, they attended college, paid dearly for the privilege, and were predictably disappointed with the expected wealth did not magically materialize upon graduation. Not wishing to admit that they had screwed up and did not achieve their expected goals, they perpetuated the myth to other members of the GUM, who promptly repeated the original logic error. The mistake would have been easily discovered were it not for the substantial number of sons and daughters of the wealthy, who continue to attend college. Given that of the 56 signers of the U.S. Declaration of Independence some 29 had attended collage and 27 had not. So apparently starting a rebellion doesn't necessarily require a collage education. Emigration to the colonies was primarily by those who were not doing very well in European society. If they had the right connections, joined the proper church, and were popular with the aristocracy, they stayed in Europe. What the colonies go were the misfits, maladjusted, greedy, and hot headed day dreamers. Little wonder the colonists were considered "rabble". From the Wiki: The total number of European immigrants to all 13 colonies before 1775 was about 500,000; of these 55,000 were involuntary prisoners. Of the 450,000 or so European arrivals who came voluntarily, Tomlins estimates that 48% were indentured. About 75% of these were under the age of 25. The age of adulthood for men was 24 years (not 21); those over 24 generally came on contracts lasting about 3 years. It might also be pointed out that California was settled by those who heeded the cry, "Go West, young man" and reached "the end of the line". It is apparent that in the world of Real Politics collage is not necessarily an advantage :-) I haven't checked, but I suspect that the sons of the great men of the American revolution attended college or at least had well placed tutors. Probably correct but that didn't effect the fact that "great men" quite often are great on their own merits not because they went to collage. Benjamin Franklin's formal education ended when he was 10 years old. He went on to become one of the Founding Fathers of the United States. Franklin was a renowned polymath and a leading author, printer, political theorist, politician, freemason, postmaster, scientist, inventor, civic activist, statesman, and diplomat. As a scientist, he was a major figure in the American Enlightenment and the history of physics for his discoveries and theories regarding electricity. As an inventor, he is known for the lightning rod, bifocals, and the Franklin stove, among other inventions But I believe that you have missed a significant point in the great Gentry - GUM debate. One attends a collage, just as one dresses for dinner, not as a matter of education, but rather because that is simply what a gentleman does. Sorry. I thought that this was obvious in my rant and did not need to be mentioned. At least among Jewish families, college was a requirement, and failing to graduate was a serious disgrace. We "value an education" includes having it shoved down one's throat, even if marginally qualified and rebellious. In my case, I was perfectly happy to continue working as a mobile radio technician, had it not been for a combination of family pressure and a draft for the war in Vietnam. While my self destructive tendencies tended to prefer not going to college, I was perfectly willing to compromise my principles in order to stay alive and be disowned by the family. While not the best reason for going to college, it was sufficient. I believe that an "education" is/was a much admired trait amongst certain racial (for want of a better word) groups. The Jewish and Chinese particularly come to mind. But of course, "My son the dentist" also makes a very nice living :-) Just as one does not formally introduce one's mistress to one's wife. Yes, that can be a problem. Arranging a menage a trois is best done in private. However, I don't recall learning that in college, or having a class on the topic. They was my point, obscure as it might have been. There are certain things that one just doesn't learn in collage :-) |
#46
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All's not fair in love and science
On Sun, 7 May 2017 15:44:31 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 5/7/2017 1:47 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: Arranging a menage a trois is best done in private. However, I don't recall learning that in college, or having a class on the topic. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that the topic is now covered in some college classes. Would that be "social studies"? |
#47
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All's not fair in love and science
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 11:45:51 PM UTC+1, Andrew Chaplin wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote in : Emigration to the colonies was primarily by those who were not doing very well in European society. If they had the right connections, joined the proper church, and were popular with the aristocracy, they stayed in Europe. What the colonies go were the misfits, maladjusted, greedy, and hot headed day dreamers. Little wonder the colonists were considered "rabble". The 13 Colonies got religious non-conformists, Australia got political and (minor) criminal prisoners, and Canada got Scots--Canada won. -- Andrew Chaplin SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO (If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.) The thing is, "non-conformists" makes the American colonists sound like troublemakers, and they weren't; Jeff simply has them wrong. Instead they were extremely moral people. All the bolshie ****stirrers went to Australia, and it still shows, sometimes in surprisingly advantageous ways for society, sometimes in damaging ways. Nothing wrong with Scots, my granny was one, my beloved mother-in-law another. It's no accident that of all the nations, the least distinguishable are Australia, Canada and the US. Andre Jute Laterally yours |
#48
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All's not fair in love and science
Slow Johnnie writes, repeatedly
collage Oh dear. Andre Jute Do learn to spell, Slow Johnnie. It makes such a difference to the way people view you. |
#49
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All's not fair in love and science
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 5:10:24 PM UTC+1, wrote:
There are actually students in UC Berkeley that had to take remedial reading. This isn't a new problem. Forty years and more ago at a university where I spent a sabbatical from business supposedly teaching economics, what I actually taught was remedial English, and not to poor immigrants, to the children of the anglophone middle classes. The socialists had removed English and math as compulsory subjects from the school curriculum, supposedly because it disadvantaged the children of immigrants, so the state schools sent to the universities children who were horrendously unprepared to understand what one told them or what they read -- when they weren't outright illiterate and innumerate. Andre Jute Are we surfing today? |
#50
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All's not fair in love and science
On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 3:51:36 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
One word: accounting. It's the future. +1 Another subject that gets you a job anywhere is Human Resources, personnel management. Andre Jute Not everyone is a natural for PPE and the Treasury |
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