If you visit UK - get a taxi!

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:12:17 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:

The UK government only uses the name "Conservative" to fool gullible
voters.

Their real name is Toraidhe (pr, toorayhee) - its the Gaellic origin of
the

The Tory Party hasn't been conservative since Winston Churchill* set up a
committee to set policy for the Conservatives to survive in the postwar
"country

And he was a defected Liberal.

On Thursday, June 12, 2014 4:47:37 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:12:17 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:



The UK government only uses the name "Conservative" to fool gullible

voters.



Their real name is Toraidhe (pr, toorayhee) - its the Gaellic origin of

the



The Tory Party hasn't been conservative since Winston Churchill* set up a

committee to set policy for the Conservatives to survive in the postwar

"country



And he was a defected Liberal.

Exactly. Back a century ago, the Liberals were actually useful...

Andre Jute

"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, June 12, 2014 4:47:37 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message

...

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 6:12:17 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:



The UK government only uses the name "Conservative" to fool gullible

voters.



Their real name is Toraidhe (pr, toorayhee) - its the Gaellic origin
of

the



The Tory Party hasn't been conservative since Winston Churchill* set up
a

committee to set policy for the Conservatives to survive in the postwar

"country



And he was a defected Liberal.

Exactly. Back a century ago, the Liberals were actually useful...

After their antics in the coalition, they look set to fall behind the
comical spoof parties at the next election.

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 22:05:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/11/2014 8:40 PM, John B. wrote:


But more seriously, why do people promulgate laws that they object to
obeying.

I think the promulgating group is usually different than the objecting
group.

Yes, I know. And most of the people in the prison system will assure
you, without blinking a bit, that THEY were unjustly imprisoned.
--
Cheers,

Jphn B.

On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 18:17:47 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 5:40:15 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:01:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/11/2014 6:38 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:08:50 -0700 (PDT), Dan O wrote:
On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:41:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2014 2:03 PM, Ian Field wrote:

Move to quadruple motorway speeding fines to ?10,000 branded 'draconian'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-10000-3668437

Looks like maximum fine for "unauthorised cycle racing on public ways"
will increase from ?200 to ?800. That seems a little harsh. Would it
apply if a friend and I sprint for a city limit sign?

It depends.

snip

I suspect that the word "cycle" is not intended to refer to Bi-cycles.
More likely to Motor-cycles :-)

That's possible, but I think it's unlikely. The remainder of the
paragraph specifically mentioned "motorcycles" regarding a separate
offense. I think racing a motorcycle would be legally equivalent to
racing a car, i.e. both legally treated as "motor vehicles."

Here's the full paragraph:

"The new fine structure will see fines for "level one" offences such as
"unauthorised cycle racing on public ways" or being found drunk on a
highway increase from ?200 to ?800, while people convicted of "level
two" crimes such as riding a motorcycle without a crash helmet or being
drunk in a football ground will see the maximum penalty rise from ?500
to ?2,000."

IIRC, for a long time even time trialing was considered illegal in Britain.

But I'm not in Britain. Perhaps Phil can comment.

Well, I didn't read it, but perhaps the British are inundated with
demon racers pedaling madly here and there and the only solution is to
penalize them.

But more seriously, why do people promulgate laws that they object to
obeying.

Because they know its application depends.

You mean that you can drive at whatever speed you wish? Or perhaps,
"Yes Officer I know I was speeding but my daughter is late to Sunday
School"?

Yes, I know, with just a little imagination you can rationalize most
anything, but I also know that in about 1962 or 63 the state of Maine
passed a law that the first drunk driving offence meant loss of
license for 1 year and the possibility of a jail sentence. the 2nd
offence meant permanent loss of licence and a year in the gray bar
hotel.

There was an almost instant decrease in drunken driving.

I checked and the DUI law has been moderated considerably since I was
there. and the offences per capita has increased considerably.

--
Cheers,

Jphn B.

On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 04:34:26 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

"Ian Field" considered Wed, 11 Jun
2014 18:12:17 +0100 the perfect time to write:



"John B." wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:08:50 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:41:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2014 2:03 PM, Ian Field wrote:

Move to quadruple motorway speeding fines to ?10,000 branded
'draconian'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-10000-3668437

Looks like maximum fine for "unauthorised cycle racing on public ways"
will increase from ?200 to ?800. That seems a little harsh. Would it
apply if a friend and I sprint for a city limit sign?

It depends.

snip

I suspect that the word "cycle" is not intended to refer to Bi-cycles.
More likely to Motor-cycles :-)

The UK government only uses the name "Conservative" to fool gullible voters.
Their real name is Toraidhe (pr, toorayhee) - its the Gaellic origin of the
word Tory which translates to persuer/bandit.

They will no doubt be stealing as much as possible from bicyclists as from
anyone else.

Generally speaking, motorists are an easy target - motorcyclists are an even
easier target.

UK motorists are robbed vast sums of money in road tax so the government can
fulfill its statutory duty to maintain the roads in a fit and safe state to
use - and then don't.

That's because the "vast sums of money" don't come close to paying the
cost of maintaining the roads, never mind building new ones or any of
the other costs imposed on society by motoring, even including all the
other motoring specific taxes (fuel duty, motor insurance tax, tax on
new vehicles, and any others that I may have missed).
And road tax was abolished in 1937 - it's motor vehicles that are
taxed, at a level based on their emissions.

Most motorists pay several times over again, repairing damage done to their
vehicles by pot-holes.

Then maybe the cost of running a motor vehicle needs to be raised to a
level at which motoring actually pays it's way, instead of being
subsidised out of general taxation.

I read somewhere, that the tax on gasoline amounted to about 40% of
the road maintenance costs, in the U.S., but that varies from state to
state. Federal tax seems to be 18.4 cents/gallon. California total
tax, State and Federal, is 71.3 cents and Alaska 30 cents.
--
Cheers,

Jphn B.

"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
news
"Ian Field" considered Thu, 12 Jun
2014 16:46:13 +0100 the perfect time to write:



"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
. ..
"Ian Field" considered Wed, 11 Jun
2014 18:12:17 +0100 the perfect time to write:



"John B." wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:08:50 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:41:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2014 2:03 PM, Ian Field wrote:

Move to quadruple motorway speeding fines to ?10,000 branded
'draconian'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-10000-3668437

Looks like maximum fine for "unauthorised cycle racing on public
ways"
will increase from ?200 to ?800. That seems a little harsh. Would
it
apply if a friend and I sprint for a city limit sign?

It depends.

snip

I suspect that the word "cycle" is not intended to refer to Bi-cycles.
More likely to Motor-cycles :-)

The UK government only uses the name "Conservative" to fool gullible
voters.
Their real name is Toraidhe (pr, toorayhee) - its the Gaellic origin of
the
word Tory which translates to persuer/bandit.

They will no doubt be stealing as much as possible from bicyclists as
from
anyone else.

Generally speaking, motorists are an easy target - motorcyclists are an
even
easier target.

UK motorists are robbed vast sums of money in road tax so the government
can
fulfill its statutory duty to maintain the roads in a fit and safe state
to
use - and then don't.

That's because the "vast sums of money" don't come close to paying the
cost of maintaining the roads,

Motorists pay huge sums in road tax - presumably most of that ends up in
government minister's offshore accounts, hence the need to sting motorists
again and again and again and...................

I repeat.
Road tax was abolished in 1937.

They might of abolished it - but they never quite got around to not
demanding it anymore!

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 04:34:26 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

"Ian Field" considered Wed, 11 Jun
2014 18:12:17 +0100 the perfect time to write:



"John B." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:08:50 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:41:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2014 2:03 PM, Ian Field wrote:

Move to quadruple motorway speeding fines to ?10,000 branded
'draconian'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-10000-3668437

Looks like maximum fine for "unauthorised cycle racing on public
ways"
will increase from ?200 to ?800. That seems a little harsh. Would
it
apply if a friend and I sprint for a city limit sign?

It depends.

snip

I suspect that the word "cycle" is not intended to refer to Bi-cycles.
More likely to Motor-cycles :-)

The UK government only uses the name "Conservative" to fool gullible
voters.
Their real name is Toraidhe (pr, toorayhee) - its the Gaellic origin of
the
word Tory which translates to persuer/bandit.

They will no doubt be stealing as much as possible from bicyclists as
from
anyone else.

Generally speaking, motorists are an easy target - motorcyclists are an
even
easier target.

UK motorists are robbed vast sums of money in road tax so the government
can
fulfill its statutory duty to maintain the roads in a fit and safe state
to
use - and then don't.

That's because the "vast sums of money" don't come close to paying the
cost of maintaining the roads, never mind building new ones or any of
the other costs imposed on society by motoring, even including all the
other motoring specific taxes (fuel duty, motor insurance tax, tax on
new vehicles, and any others that I may have missed).
And road tax was abolished in 1937 - it's motor vehicles that are
taxed, at a level based on their emissions.

Most motorists pay several times over again, repairing damage done to
their
vehicles by pot-holes.

Then maybe the cost of running a motor vehicle needs to be raised to a
level at which motoring actually pays it's way, instead of being
subsidised out of general taxation.

I read somewhere, that the tax on gasoline amounted to about 40% of
the road maintenance costs, in the U.S., but that varies from state to
state. Federal tax seems to be 18.4 cents/gallon. California total
tax, State and Federal, is 71.3 cents and Alaska 30 cents.

Can't remember the figure for UK fuel tax, but I vaguely remember a figure
in the general direction of 70% being mentioned - its certainly the highest
tax in Europe.

Allegedly, some of this goes to upkeep of the roads - but having seen the
state of them, I don't think so!

"Ian Field" wrote in message
...


"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
news
"Ian Field" considered Thu, 12 Jun
2014 16:46:13 +0100 the perfect time to write:



"Phil W Lee" wrote in message
...
"Ian Field" considered Wed, 11 Jun
2014 18:12:17 +0100 the perfect time to write:



"John B." wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:08:50 -0700 (PDT), Dan O

wrote:

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:41:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2014 2:03 PM, Ian Field wrote:

Move to quadruple motorway speeding fines to ?10,000 branded
'draconian'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-10000-3668437

Looks like maximum fine for "unauthorised cycle racing on public
ways"
will increase from ?200 to ?800. That seems a little harsh. Would
it
apply if a friend and I sprint for a city limit sign?

It depends.

snip

I suspect that the word "cycle" is not intended to refer to
Bi-cycles.
More likely to Motor-cycles :-)

The UK government only uses the name "Conservative" to fool gullible
voters.
Their real name is Toraidhe (pr, toorayhee) - its the Gaellic origin of
the
word Tory which translates to persuer/bandit.

They will no doubt be stealing as much as possible from bicyclists as
from
anyone else.

Generally speaking, motorists are an easy target - motorcyclists are an
even
easier target.

UK motorists are robbed vast sums of money in road tax so the
government
can
fulfill its statutory duty to maintain the roads in a fit and safe
state
to
use - and then don't.

That's because the "vast sums of money" don't come close to paying the
cost of maintaining the roads,

Motorists pay huge sums in road tax - presumably most of that ends up in
government minister's offshore accounts, hence the need to sting
motorists
again and again and again and...................

I repeat.
Road tax was abolished in 1937.

They might of abolished it - but they never quite got around to not
demanding it anymore!

... and they spend a lot of it on ANPR enforcement vans that drive around
supermarket car parks scanning all the number plates to flag up defaulters.

They alert the police to cover the exits and pull the offenders over and see
what other documents are expired.

On Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:14:04 +0100, "Ian Field"
wrote:



"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 04:34:26 +0100, Phil W Lee
wrote:

"Ian Field" considered Wed, 11 Jun
2014 18:12:17 +0100 the perfect time to write:



"John B." wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 10 Jun 2014 22:08:50 -0700 (PDT), Dan O
wrote:

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:41:21 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/10/2014 2:03 PM, Ian Field wrote:

Move to quadruple motorway speeding fines to ?10,000 branded
'draconian'

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-10000-3668437

Looks like maximum fine for "unauthorised cycle racing on public
ways"
will increase from ?200 to ?800. That seems a little harsh. Would
it
apply if a friend and I sprint for a city limit sign?

It depends.

snip

I suspect that the word "cycle" is not intended to refer to Bi-cycles.
More likely to Motor-cycles :-)

The UK government only uses the name "Conservative" to fool gullible
voters.
Their real name is Toraidhe (pr, toorayhee) - its the Gaellic origin of
the
word Tory which translates to persuer/bandit.

They will no doubt be stealing as much as possible from bicyclists as
from
anyone else.

Generally speaking, motorists are an easy target - motorcyclists are an
even
easier target.

UK motorists are robbed vast sums of money in road tax so the government
can
fulfill its statutory duty to maintain the roads in a fit and safe state
to
use - and then don't.

That's because the "vast sums of money" don't come close to paying the
cost of maintaining the roads, never mind building new ones or any of
the other costs imposed on society by motoring, even including all the
other motoring specific taxes (fuel duty, motor insurance tax, tax on
new vehicles, and any others that I may have missed).
And road tax was abolished in 1937 - it's motor vehicles that are
taxed, at a level based on their emissions.

Most motorists pay several times over again, repairing damage done to
their
vehicles by pot-holes.

Then maybe the cost of running a motor vehicle needs to be raised to a
level at which motoring actually pays it's way, instead of being
subsidised out of general taxation.

I read somewhere, that the tax on gasoline amounted to about 40% of
the road maintenance costs, in the U.S., but that varies from state to
state. Federal tax seems to be 18.4 cents/gallon. California total
tax, State and Federal, is 71.3 cents and Alaska 30 cents.

Can't remember the figure for UK fuel tax, but I vaguely remember a figure
in the general direction of 70% being mentioned - its certainly the highest
tax in Europe.

Allegedly, some of this goes to upkeep of the roads - but having seen the
state of them, I don't think so!

From the Wiki:
From 23 March 2011 the UK duty rate for the road fuels unleaded
petrol, diesel, biodiesel and bioethanol is Pounds 0.5795 per litre (£
2.63 per imperial gallon).

Value Added Tax at 20% is also charged on the price of the fuel and on
the duty. An additional vehicle excise duty, depending on a vehicle's
CO2 production per kilometre, which depends directly on fuel
consumption, is also levied.

If I've got it right you pay 2.63 in tax and then an additional VAT of
0.526 on the tax, and than .... :-(

--
Cheers,

John B.