A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » Regional Cycling » Australia
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 14th 15, 05:47 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Stuart Longland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts

Hi all,

I've been thinking about building a decent cargo trailer for the purpose
of long-distance touring.

By long distance: well right now I've got the idea of a trip down the
Barry Way from Jindabyne through to the Great Ocean Road. That idea is
just "pipe dream" status right now.

There's also the trips I do to assist in emergency communications for
Brisbane Area WICEN, e.g. each year we go up to Imbil to run checkpoints
for the International Rally of Queensland car rally as well as numerous
horse endurance ride events, and one or two Bicycle Queensland events.
So being able to do those without relying on someone else for transport
would be good too.

Intended terrain would be mostly "on-road", where "road" can vary from
good quality bitumen through to state forest fire trails, etc.

I have a Croozer cargo trailer which is mostly okay, but I'm concerned
about a few things:

- the wheels are a small less-common size and so getting tubes and tyres
will be a pain.
- it has a 30kg load limit: I'll want to carry water and food along with
some camping gear.
- my particular trailer is showing signs of wear and tear.

I have a couple of bikes, but the one I have in mind to go touring with
is a Giant Talon 29ER 0. I've upgraded the wheels on it and have the
original stock 29" wheels it came with.

I figured it would be a good idea if the new trailer I built, used
compatible wheels, so that should disaster strike, I can swap things
around and it saves on the number of spare tyres/tubes I need to carry.
The 29" tyres should be easier to source too.

Problem being: most of these type wheels are sold as a front/rear set.
I know I can get them overseas individually (Wiggle were advertising a
Shimano front wheel for around the $140 mark).

Does anyone know places in Australia that sell 29" front-wheels at a
reasonable price? Any places sell used wheels?

On the actual trailer design, I've been fiddling around in OpenSCAD
modelling various aspects. At the moment I'm thinking of doing it with
box-section aluminium, as 20-25mm section is pretty common and seems to
have quite a bit of strength.

Joining the sections will be the challenge though: a good design here
would be one that is reasonably robust, but can be fixed with a minimum
of tools if things break. For this reason I'm looking at bolting the
sections together.

I note places like Bunnings sell 25mm section and a range of plastic
joiners (QubeLock/Connect-IT brands): does anyone know how strong these
are or know of where one can get aluminium equivalents? Anyone tried
building something with this stuff for a mobile situation?
Ads
  #2  
Old February 14th 15, 01:04 PM posted to aus.bicycle
news13
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 14:47:47 +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:


Intended terrain would be mostly "on-road", where "road" can vary from
good quality bitumen through to state forest fire trails, etc.

I have a Croozer cargo trailer which is mostly okay, but I'm concerned
about a few things:


The two basic designs are single wheel like the bob style or double wheel
like all the kiddie trailers, which you've got.

Single wheel styles are useful as there is only one track, so you can
minimise bumps, rocks, punctures, etc. If you want a standard wheel in
the trailer, then it is a custom build. You can build the bnob/jack
london sytle flatbed style or you can build a "chinese wheel barrow style
with low rider panniers on either side.

- the wheels are a small less-common size and so getting tubes and tyres
will be a pain.
- it has a 30kg load limit: I'll want to carry water and food along with
some camping gear.


My 2c is to invest in solid rack front and back with loaw rider bits and
have four panniers. The lower the weight the more stable your bicycle and
the easier to keep it upright. I always preferred to carry the weight on
the bicycle first for touring. If it didn't fit, then you had too much.

On long dry trips, I've carried 2x5L bottles in medium size panniers on
the front rack and picked up best water as we went along. These days, I'd
strongly suggest a good filter pump for all water collected.

I had the advantage of being able to sew up my own with old domestic
sewing machines. They wore out fast but were relatively cheap. I don't
know how you'd get on with the plastic gears they use these days.


Does anyone know places in Australia that sell 29" front-wheels at a
reasonable price? Any places sell used wheels?


Sigh, the world has moved on yet again. My mum and dad rode on 28" tyres,
I road on 27' and used 26" for touring. Now they are up to 29".

On the actual trailer design, I've been fiddling around in OpenSCAD
modelling various aspects. At the moment I'm thinking of doing it with
box-section aluminium, as 20-25mm section is pretty common and seems to
have quite a bit of strength.


Can you weld? A few years prior, I'd recommend going to tafe and learning
TIG welding and doing a few foreign orders. No idea how you'd get on now.

at one stage, various AID agency had plans for easy to build bicycle
trailers on the web. I don't know if they are still around, but they were
all two wheel trailers largely of the tea chest carrying design.


but can be fixed with a minimum
of tools if things break.


In Australia, you'd just use aluminium. If you were going elsewhere and
in really remote, you'd make it out of steel as they use car batteries
for welding.

I think British Steels was the supplier of bicycle frame quality steel in
Australia, but i believe they have closed down.

For this reason I'm looking at bolting the sections together.


Fiddly and requires experience to do properly and not tear out.

I note places like Bunnings sell 25mm section and a range of plastic
joiners (QubeLock/Connect-IT brands): does anyone know how strong these
are


You can test them buy buying two long section(1m) of box section and
fastening one end and putting full force on the other and see what fails
first. I'm not impressed by tyhem. YMMV.

or know of where one can get aluminium equivalents? Anyone tried
building something with this stuff for a mobile situation?


I've always fiddled with steel from street finds in the past. YMMV.

  #3  
Old April 13th 15, 01:43 PM posted to aus.bicycle
F Murtz[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 192
Default Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts

news13 wrote:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 14:47:47 +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:


Intended terrain would be mostly "on-road", where "road" can vary from
good quality bitumen through to state forest fire trails, etc.

I have a Croozer cargo trailer which is mostly okay, but I'm concerned
about a few things:


The two basic designs are single wheel like the bob style or double wheel
like all the kiddie trailers, which you've got.

Single wheel styles are useful as there is only one track, so you can
minimise bumps, rocks, punctures, etc. If you want a standard wheel in
the trailer, then it is a custom build. You can build the bnob/jack
london sytle flatbed style or you can build a "chinese wheel barrow style
with low rider panniers on either side.

- the wheels are a small less-common size and so getting tubes and tyres
will be a pain.
- it has a 30kg load limit: I'll want to carry water and food along with
some camping gear.


My 2c is to invest in solid rack front and back with loaw rider bits and
have four panniers. The lower the weight the more stable your bicycle and
the easier to keep it upright. I always preferred to carry the weight on
the bicycle first for touring. If it didn't fit, then you had too much.

On long dry trips, I've carried 2x5L bottles in medium size panniers on
the front rack and picked up best water as we went along. These days, I'd
strongly suggest a good filter pump for all water collected.

I had the advantage of being able to sew up my own with old domestic
sewing machines. They wore out fast but were relatively cheap. I don't
know how you'd get on with the plastic gears they use these days.


Does anyone know places in Australia that sell 29" front-wheels at a
reasonable price? Any places sell used wheels?


Sigh, the world has moved on yet again. My mum and dad rode on 28" tyres,
I road on 27' and used 26" for touring. Now they are up to 29".

On the actual trailer design, I've been fiddling around in OpenSCAD
modelling various aspects. At the moment I'm thinking of doing it with
box-section aluminium, as 20-25mm section is pretty common and seems to
have quite a bit of strength.


Can you weld? A few years prior, I'd recommend going to tafe and learning
TIG welding and doing a few foreign orders. No idea how you'd get on now.

at one stage, various AID agency had plans for easy to build bicycle
trailers on the web. I don't know if they are still around, but they were
all two wheel trailers largely of the tea chest carrying design.


but can be fixed with a minimum
of tools if things break.


In Australia, you'd just use aluminium. If you were going elsewhere and
in really remote, you'd make it out of steel as they use car batteries
for welding.

I think British Steels was the supplier of bicycle frame quality steel in
Australia, but i believe they have closed down.

For this reason I'm looking at bolting the sections together.


Fiddly and requires experience to do properly and not tear out.

I note places like Bunnings sell 25mm section and a range of plastic
joiners (QubeLock/Connect-IT brands): does anyone know how strong these
are


You can test them buy buying two long section(1m) of box section and
fastening one end and putting full force on the other and see what fails
first. I'm not impressed by tyhem. YMMV.

or know of where one can get aluminium equivalents? Anyone tried
building something with this stuff for a mobile situation?


I've always fiddled with steel from street finds in the past. YMMV.

Test
  #4  
Old April 17th 15, 11:43 AM posted to aus.bicycle
Stuart Longland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts

On 13/04/15 22:43, F Murtz wrote:
news13 wrote:


Geez, I posted that months ago, didn't see anything come through until
tonight. I thought my post had wound up in /dev/null.

I'll have to dig up where else this newsgroup is archived in order to
get an idea of what replies there were.

In the meantime, I've been getting some advice he

http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...e-touring.html

So I have two Shimano MT35 wheels now with centre-lock disc brake
rotors. I've done some preliminary mounting brackets for the wheels to
test a few ideas out and have an idea how some of it will fit together.

I apologise if people thought I was rude asking then not replying, I
literally only just saw the replies.

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 14:47:47 +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:
Intended terrain would be mostly "on-road", where "road" can vary from
good quality bitumen through to state forest fire trails, etc.

I have a Croozer cargo trailer which is mostly okay, but I'm concerned
about a few things:


The two basic designs are single wheel like the bob style or double wheel
like all the kiddie trailers, which you've got.

Single wheel styles are useful as there is only one track, so you can
minimise bumps, rocks, punctures, etc. If you want a standard wheel in
the trailer, then it is a custom build. You can build the bnob/jack
london sytle flatbed style or you can build a "chinese wheel barrow style
with low rider panniers on either side.


Indeed, did consider the single-wheel option. They're a more
complicated hitch arrangement since the hitch has to connect to both
sides of the trailer for it to tilt with the bike.

My big concern here is in fitting some of the gear I have. In particular:

- my solar panel (40W Jaycar jobbie) for charging batteries (I won't
have mains power at the places where I'll be going)
- my tent (OzTrail SwitchBack 2; folds up into a bag the same size as
one of my 29" wheels)
- food and water storage
- spare wheelset (insurance policy in case I break a spoke)

It'll be awkward to fit this on a single-wheel type trailer. I
appreciate the advantages they offer, but also appreciate some of the
limitations. Not that a dual-wheel design is without its flaws.

- the wheels are a small less-common size and so getting tubes and tyres
will be a pain.
- it has a 30kg load limit: I'll want to carry water and food along with
some camping gear.


My 2c is to invest in solid rack front and back with loaw rider bits and
have four panniers. The lower the weight the more stable your bicycle and
the easier to keep it upright. I always preferred to carry the weight on
the bicycle first for touring. If it didn't fit, then you had too much.

On long dry trips, I've carried 2x5L bottles in medium size panniers on
the front rack and picked up best water as we went along. These days, I'd
strongly suggest a good filter pump for all water collected.

I had the advantage of being able to sew up my own with old domestic
sewing machines. They wore out fast but were relatively cheap. I don't
know how you'd get on with the plastic gears they use these days.


Indeed. Finding a good strong rack is easier said than done. I thought
I had one with the Topeak racks. I've broken two of them in the exact
same spot carrying 16kg, they're supposedly rated to 25kg.

http://www.longlandclan.yi.org/~stua...2711-360px.jpg

Unfortunately that's the better of the two I can source locally. For
this reason, I'm now researching the design of a rack that will better
fulfil my needs.

Does anyone know places in Australia that sell 29" front-wheels at a
reasonable price? Any places sell used wheels?


Sigh, the world has moved on yet again. My mum and dad rode on 28" tyres,
I road on 27' and used 26" for touring. Now they are up to 29".


I've now sourced the wheels. The ones I wound up getting are
centre-lock rather than 6-bolt style like my bike, and they also use a
9mm quick-release mechanism. So looks like I won't be using these as a
stand-in if my front wheel gets damaged.


On the actual trailer design, I've been fiddling around in OpenSCAD
modelling various aspects. At the moment I'm thinking of doing it with
box-section aluminium, as 20-25mm section is pretty common and seems to
have quite a bit of strength.


Can you weld? A few years prior, I'd recommend going to tafe and learning
TIG welding and doing a few foreign orders. No idea how you'd get on now.

at one stage, various AID agency had plans for easy to build bicycle
trailers on the web. I don't know if they are still around, but they were
all two wheel trailers largely of the tea chest carrying design.


Sadly, no, no access to a welder and no knowledge of how to use one.

As for plans for building a trailer, I did see some plans for building
one using a bamboo frame.

but can be fixed with a minimum
of tools if things break.


In Australia, you'd just use aluminium. If you were going elsewhere and
in really remote, you'd make it out of steel as they use car batteries
for welding.

I think British Steels was the supplier of bicycle frame quality steel in
Australia, but i believe they have closed down.


Aluminium seems like my best bet in terms of general availability and
also weight. 1" box section can be bought just about anywhere it seems
which is a plus.

I had also considered PVC, but I hear it gets brittle over time and thus
might fail without warning.

For this reason I'm looking at bolting the sections together.


Fiddly and requires experience to do properly and not tear out.

I note places like Bunnings sell 25mm section and a range of plastic
joiners (QubeLock/Connect-IT brands): does anyone know how strong these
are


You can test them buy buying two long section(1m) of box section and
fastening one end and putting full force on the other and see what fails
first. I'm not impressed by tyhem. YMMV.


This indeed looks to be the best plan of attack: get a sample and test
to destruction. The construction techniques used in this rear rack
seems to suggest it can be made to be fairly rugged.

http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...itch-rack.html

Bonus points here for not needing bolt holes near the rear axle: a
feature that most full-suspension mountain bikes lack.

Having thought about the problem some more, those joiners might work for
initially aligning everything, but then should be reinforced with
suitable plates/braces to ensure nothing comes adrift.

Anyway, I appreciate the input there, apologies for not getting back to
people, and I'll try to keep a closer eye on this newsgroup.
  #5  
Old April 17th 15, 04:03 PM posted to aus.bicycle
Chris Baird[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts

http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...itch-rack.html

Looks like a pain to remove when getting flat.. In 2004 I rode a
petrol-motor assisted bike on a 2 week trip, and having to undo and
reassemble everything on the side of the road, in Summer, every time I
got a flat, made me conclude that 'Rotary' motors were not a good choice
for touring.

My currently half-built trailer project has Nitto air-compressor
fittings for the hitch, an idea I got from
http://www.instructables.com/id/Bicy...-hose-couplin/
What it might lack in apparently durability, I'm expecting it'll make up
for in simplicity/repairibility/parts-availability.

Sadly, no, no access to a welder and no knowledge of how to use one.
As for plans for building a trailer, I did see some plans for
building one using a bamboo frame.


For my trailer's frame, I'm hoping to do a design where hose-clamps
could be used for repair in even the worst senario. Sam Mitchell, the
18yo who self-built a solar-powered trike and rode it around the island,
had constant issues with his welds breaking, so I'm thinking anything
welded is to be avoided.

--
Chris
  #6  
Old April 17th 15, 10:37 PM posted to aus.bicycle
Stuart Longland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts

On 18/04/15 01:03, Chris Baird wrote:
http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...itch-rack.html


Looks like a pain to remove when getting flat.. In 2004 I rode a
petrol-motor assisted bike on a 2 week trip, and having to undo and
reassemble everything on the side of the road, in Summer, every time I
got a flat, made me conclude that 'Rotary' motors were not a good choice
for touring.


Yes, this is a big consideration. In my original plans I was going to
use 10mm thru-axle wheels, and the ideal plan was to have the axle slide
out allowing the wheel to drop out vertically.

With 9mm QR mountings, due to where I'm looking to put the brake
callipers, I'm thinking the QR drop-out slot will be aligned
horizontally (facing back) and so to release the wheel I'd release the
catch, undo the bolts a little, then pull the wheel backwards then down.

My currently half-built trailer project has Nitto air-compressor
fittings for the hitch, an idea I got from
http://www.instructables.com/id/Bicy...-hose-couplin/
What it might lack in apparently durability, I'm expecting it'll make up
for in simplicity/repairibility/parts-availability.


Yeah I did see that, and agreed you should be able to get something just
about anywhere.

My father in his travels managed to pick up this widget:

http://www.longlandclan.yi.org/~stua...tch-closed.jpg
http://www.longlandclan.yi.org/~stua...hitch-open.jpg

I have no idea where he got it from or where I'd get another if it failed.

It's stainless steel, so should be quite hard wearing, and it gives all
3 axes of rotation with only a little bit of play in the joint.

I'm told this arrangement did not work well in the end:
http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...l#post12967887

Apparently the bolts wore the mounting hole out into an ellipse after
1000 mi.

Two other options I'm considering:

- Heim joint:
http://www.bikeforums.net/utility-cy...l#post17637003
- Cut-down castor wheel:
http://www.instructables.com/id/SURF...ILER/?ALLSTEPS --
scroll to step 9

Sadly, no, no access to a welder and no knowledge of how to use one.
As for plans for building a trailer, I did see some plans for
building one using a bamboo frame.


For my trailer's frame, I'm hoping to do a design where hose-clamps
could be used for repair in even the worst senario. Sam Mitchell, the
18yo who self-built a solar-powered trike and rode it around the island,
had constant issues with his welds breaking, so I'm thinking anything
welded is to be avoided.


Indeed. Hose clamps should be possible to get anywhere. I've had welds
fail on pannier racks too and while I can carry a hacksaw and drill
without too much trouble (and even then, a lot of small towns have a
"mens shed"), carrying a MIG welder is out of the question.

If I can get a replacement length of aluminium and either brace it
against the existing parts with hose clamps or attack it with some tools
and manufacture a replacement part with it, then that gets my vote.
  #7  
Old April 18th 15, 06:31 AM posted to aus.bicycle
news13
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts

On Sat, 18 Apr 2015 01:03:44 +1000, Chris Baird wrote:

Sam Mitchell, the
18yo who self-built a solar-powered trike and rode it around the island,
had constant issues with his welds breaking, so I'm thinking anything
welded is to be avoided.


Two issues; design and welding.
For anything to be a realistically solar powered, it has to carry a
significant weight in solar panels.

There is welding and welding. Considering bicycle frames have been
"welded" for over a century, that comments needs to be reconsidered.

  #8  
Old April 18th 15, 06:46 AM posted to aus.bicycle
news13
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts

On Fri, 17 Apr 2015 20:43:05 +1000, Stuart Longland wrote:


This indeed looks to be the best plan of attack: get a sample and test
to destruction.


Err, that is my protyping method. Build one and then use it to
destruction, then build another. Lot of fun.

The construction techniques used in this rear rack
seems to suggest it can be made to be fairly rugged.

http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...e-built-hitch-

rack.html

IMO, very sucky frame. no lugs on frame for mounting mudguards, or racks,
which is why he/she build that arrangement.

Very good in the sense that it is low down and not off the seat post or
top of rack.


Bonus points here for not needing bolt holes near the rear axle: a
feature that most full-suspension mountain bikes lack.


I wouldn't tow a trailer any other way. It puts trailer forces maximally
onto rear wheel axle and reduces frame twisting as much as possible. so
long as you don't loose traction, you're okay

Hint, P clamps are the usual approach to overcome lack of lugs in that
area. Not permanent, but reasonable until you get permanent lugs attached.



  #9  
Old April 18th 15, 01:45 PM posted to aus.bicycle
Stuart Longland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts

On 18/04/15 15:31, news13 wrote:
There is welding and welding. Considering bicycle frames have been
"welded" for over a century, that comments needs to be reconsidered.


Indeed, a lot has to do with the skill of the person wielding the
welder. A beginner like myself is guaranteed to make an utter hash of it.
  #10  
Old April 18th 15, 06:04 PM posted to aus.bicycle
F Murtz[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 192
Default Thinking of building a touring trailer: looking for parts

Chris Baird wrote:
http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...itch-rack.html


Looks like a pain to remove when getting flat.. In 2004 I rode a
petrol-motor assisted bike on a 2 week trip, and having to undo and
reassemble everything on the side of the road, in Summer, every time I
got a flat, made me conclude that 'Rotary' motors were not a good choice
for touring.

My currently half-built trailer project has Nitto air-compressor
fittings for the hitch, an idea I got from
http://www.instructables.com/id/Bicy...-hose-couplin/
What it might lack in apparently durability, I'm expecting it'll make up
for in simplicity/repairibility/parts-availability.


Not a good idea, not very reliable, I use them with compressed air and
they pop apart often from a little bit of a bump.

Sadly, no, no access to a welder and no knowledge of how to use one.
As for plans for building a trailer, I did see some plans for
building one using a bamboo frame.


For my trailer's frame, I'm hoping to do a design where hose-clamps
could be used for repair in even the worst senario. Sam Mitchell, the
18yo who self-built a solar-powered trike and rode it around the island,
had constant issues with his welds breaking, so I'm thinking anything
welded is to be avoided.

--
Chris


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
building a bike trailer laran Techniques 31 October 4th 09 02:03 AM
building your own trailer? Ablang Techniques 9 June 1st 08 11:07 PM
Composite parts building. webhead[_2_] Techniques 19 December 6th 07 02:29 PM
Building a trailer/bike RV Mark[_4_] Techniques 8 September 29th 07 04:56 AM
Touring with a trailer Pinky General 8 December 11th 05 04:18 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.