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#31
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Road Tires: Width vs Speed Penalties?
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 22:31:59 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 12/16/2017 8:58 PM, John B. wrote: If one wants to get scientific, my guess is that the average guy posting has well over 10% body weight as fat, in fact I read that the *average* Usian is 23 lbs over his "ideal body weight" (which totally ignores tissue make up). (Note: I an excepting James from this as I believe that he is still maintaining his lean body mass near optimum). So, to be scientific, lets say, "You'd be far, far better off getting rid of 15 - 20 lbs of that stuff hanging over your belt, before you start buying new tires.... its cheaper too :-) I think the difference is: For most of us here, buying new tires is possible. In fact, it's easy. Losing 20 pounds, on the other hand... Geeze Frank, losing weight is probably the easiest thing that a person can do..... Just keep your mouth closed :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
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#32
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Road Tires: Width vs Speed Penalties?
On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 10:18:17 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 5:58:40 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 08:13:42 -0800 (PST), jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 2:53:06 AM UTC-8, John B. wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 00:24:22 -0600, Tim McNamara wrote: On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 16:07:29 -0800 (PST), HaloTupolev wrote: but don't say anything about width-vs-speed penalties. Compass generally claims that width itself doesn't cause significant differences in net performance. I can't remember which issue it was (43 maybe?), but one of the editions of Bicycle Quarterly included testing on the apron of Marymoor Velodrome where the entire range of Compass tire widths performed identically, within the precision of their measurement methodology. I haven't read that one, but their earlier ones involved roll-down testing and (from one of the photos in the article) timing with a wris****ch. I put little credence into that article because if the likelihood of noise in the data. They later did some interesting testing using a power meter, which struck me as a better way to assess performance. That said, I think that Compass is correct in that given identical construction (casing, tread thickness, rubber compound) the effects of width as a variable would be small. The more traditional drum tests suggested (e.g. the ones done for Avocet). For as long as I can remember, most wider tires also feature heavier casings and much thicker rubber- wide high performance tires were rare. Compass has pushed in that direction quite aggressively and good for them. Compass's assertion that inflation pressure has little impact on performance is out of keeping with that testing, although when real-world road textures/roughness are included there may be relatively little adverse impact from lower pressures. Jim Papadopoulos wrote about that in this forum many years ago under the rubric of suspension losses, and his thinking had a direct impact on Compass's tire design philosophy. My bike with 26 x 1.8 Compass tires seems as fast as my bikes with 700 x 25 or 700 x 28 Paselas. At least based on average speeds on my cycle computer and similar subjective effort. That is of course far from a scientific approach! On the other hand if you go out and ride your 50 km loop with the wide 26" tires and then go out the next day and ride the same loop with your 700c x 28 tires in the same time, can science tell you any more :-) Science would tell you that your 700C X 28mm bike sucks or that you live in a place with absolutely no elevation gain. While I wasn't specifically thinking of hills and such but the fact remains that if you ride your 50 km loop at the same speed with the two bikes and you are happy with the ride... what else is there? If one wants to get scientific, my guess is that the average guy posting has well over 10% body weight as fat, in fact I read that the *average* Usian is 23 lbs over his "ideal body weight" (which totally ignores tissue make up). (Note: I an excepting James from this as I believe that he is still maintaining his lean body mass near optimum). So, to be scientific, lets say, "You'd be far, far better off getting rid of 15 - 20 lbs of that stuff hanging over your belt, before you start buying new tires.... its cheaper too :-) If I lost 20lbs, I'd look like a death camp survivor. Ten would be O.K. Anyway, even when I'm carrying a few extra pounds, I can feel the difference in effort needed to move different bikes and tires. I just switched out some OE Schwalbe Luganos for some Pro4 Endurance -- both 28mm. https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...be-lugano-2015 I can feel the difference between the two, even though I was just slugging along today through the hills. I ride 6-7 days a week and ride three different bikes with regularity. They're all different. Tomorrow will be a group ride with guys I've been riding with weekly for years or decades -- racers and former racers, and although it won't be a death race this time of year . . . two guys a ride, three guys a race and more guys more race. I don't want to be flogging some touring bike with balloon tires up a hill when everyone else is on a racing bike. -- Jay Beattie. the peloton tried dragging taunting me along as they came past on my trip to Walmart. Tuned n lubed, was clear after 300 yards that the flow was not going my way. |
#33
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Road Tires: Width vs Speed Penalties?
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#34
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Road Tires: Width vs Speed Penalties?
John B. wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 22:31:59 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/16/2017 8:58 PM, John B. wrote: If one wants to get scientific, my guess is that the average guy posting has well over 10% body weight as fat, in fact I read that the *average* Usian is 23 lbs over his "ideal body weight" (which totally ignores tissue make up). (Note: I an excepting James from this as I believe that he is still maintaining his lean body mass near optimum). So, to be scientific, lets say, "You'd be far, far better off getting rid of 15 - 20 lbs of that stuff hanging over your belt, before you start buying new tires.... its cheaper too :-) I think the difference is: For most of us here, buying new tires is possible. In fact, it's easy. Losing 20 pounds, on the other hand... Geeze Frank, losing weight is probably the easiest thing that a person can do..... Just keep your mouth closed :-) -- Cheers, John B. This forum is often a shining example of exactly how hard it is to "just keep your mouth closed". |
#35
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Road Tires: Width vs Speed Penalties?
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 16:03:18 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote: John B. wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 22:31:59 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/16/2017 8:58 PM, John B. wrote: If one wants to get scientific, my guess is that the average guy posting has well over 10% body weight as fat, in fact I read that the *average* Usian is 23 lbs over his "ideal body weight" (which totally ignores tissue make up). (Note: I an excepting James from this as I believe that he is still maintaining his lean body mass near optimum). So, to be scientific, lets say, "You'd be far, far better off getting rid of 15 - 20 lbs of that stuff hanging over your belt, before you start buying new tires.... its cheaper too :-) I think the difference is: For most of us here, buying new tires is possible. In fact, it's easy. Losing 20 pounds, on the other hand... Geeze Frank, losing weight is probably the easiest thing that a person can do..... Just keep your mouth closed :-) This forum is often a shining example of exactly how hard it is to "just keep your mouth closed". LOL! Well, the internet in general falls into that. I am reminded of a quote attrinuted to Miles Davis in the mid 1950s. John Coltrane was in the first great quintet of Miles's and famous for playing on and on. At the end of one take, Miles chastized him and Trane replied "Sorry, man, I couldn't figure out how to stop." Miles replied "take the horn out of your mouth." Speaking of weight loss and not meaning to shound like a shill, my wife had great results with Weigh****chers. She started that in 1999 or 2000 and lost over 50#, which she has basically kept off since (+/- 10#). That's in contrast to me; I hit 250 lbs in 1990 and got a severe lecture from my doc (family history of diabetes, heart disease, etc.). Just by eating less stupidly and resuming riding my bike, which I had left idle for a year or two after moving to the Big City, I lost 55# in about a year. I started racing in 1992 and maintained that weight until 2000 when I stopped racing. Even at 195# I was never competitive if the road went uphil more than about 1/4 mile, bike racing is a sport for flyweights. Indurain is my height and he raced at about 170 lbs; I'd have had to have a leg amputated to get down to that weight. Gradually my weight has crept up to 230# and it is now time to do something about that. My IBW is up to 205# so I am 25# overweight- just about average mild obesity. I may try the WW thing myself, since I am already familiar with it and it's not very complicated. |
#36
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Road Tires: Width vs Speed Penalties?
On 12/17/2017 1:50 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 16:03:18 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: John B. wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 22:31:59 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/16/2017 8:58 PM, John B. wrote: If one wants to get scientific, my guess is that the average guy posting has well over 10% body weight as fat, in fact I read that the *average* Usian is 23 lbs over his "ideal body weight" (which totally ignores tissue make up). (Note: I an excepting James from this as I believe that he is still maintaining his lean body mass near optimum). So, to be scientific, lets say, "You'd be far, far better off getting rid of 15 - 20 lbs of that stuff hanging over your belt, before you start buying new tires.... its cheaper too :-) I think the difference is: For most of us here, buying new tires is possible. In fact, it's easy. Losing 20 pounds, on the other hand... Geeze Frank, losing weight is probably the easiest thing that a person can do..... Just keep your mouth closed :-) This forum is often a shining example of exactly how hard it is to "just keep your mouth closed". LOL! Well, the internet in general falls into that. I am reminded of a quote attrinuted to Miles Davis in the mid 1950s. John Coltrane was in the first great quintet of Miles's and famous for playing on and on. At the end of one take, Miles chastized him and Trane replied "Sorry, man, I couldn't figure out how to stop." Miles replied "take the horn out of your mouth." Speaking of weight loss and not meaning to shound like a shill, my wife had great results with Weigh****chers. She started that in 1999 or 2000 and lost over 50#, which she has basically kept off since (+/- 10#). That's in contrast to me; I hit 250 lbs in 1990 and got a severe lecture from my doc (family history of diabetes, heart disease, etc.). Just by eating less stupidly and resuming riding my bike, which I had left idle for a year or two after moving to the Big City, I lost 55# in about a year. I started racing in 1992 and maintained that weight until 2000 when I stopped racing. Even at 195# I was never competitive if the road went uphil more than about 1/4 mile, bike racing is a sport for flyweights. Indurain is my height and he raced at about 170 lbs; I'd have had to have a leg amputated to get down to that weight. Gradually my weight has crept up to 230# and it is now time to do something about that. My IBW is up to 205# so I am 25# overweight- just about average mild obesity. I may try the WW thing myself, since I am already familiar with it and it's not very complicated. When I was a young faculty member, I went to a free faculty fitness workshop put on by the Human Performance & Exercise Science faculty. One lecturer said "The average American gains one pound per year." The assembled professors showed no reaction. The guy said "No, think about that. What are you going to weigh in 30 years?" I've gained weight since then, but only about seven pounds, IIRC. For me, one key was eating zero to minimum lunch. And lately, I try to reduce the late-night snacks. I say that as I type with greasy fingers from potato chips and drink a beer. Hey, we just had friends over for a party. Can't waste the leftover snacks! -- - Frank Krygowski |
#37
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Road Tires: Width vs Speed Penalties?
On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 7:59:48 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/17/2017 1:50 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 16:03:18 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: John B. wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 22:31:59 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/16/2017 8:58 PM, John B. wrote: If one wants to get scientific, my guess is that the average guy posting has well over 10% body weight as fat, in fact I read that the *average* Usian is 23 lbs over his "ideal body weight" (which totally ignores tissue make up). (Note: I an excepting James from this as I believe that he is still maintaining his lean body mass near optimum). So, to be scientific, lets say, "You'd be far, far better off getting rid of 15 - 20 lbs of that stuff hanging over your belt, before you start buying new tires.... its cheaper too :-) I think the difference is: For most of us here, buying new tires is possible. In fact, it's easy. Losing 20 pounds, on the other hand... Geeze Frank, losing weight is probably the easiest thing that a person can do..... Just keep your mouth closed :-) This forum is often a shining example of exactly how hard it is to "just keep your mouth closed". LOL! Well, the internet in general falls into that. I am reminded of a quote attrinuted to Miles Davis in the mid 1950s. John Coltrane was in the first great quintet of Miles's and famous for playing on and on. At the end of one take, Miles chastized him and Trane replied "Sorry, man, I couldn't figure out how to stop." Miles replied "take the horn out of your mouth." Speaking of weight loss and not meaning to shound like a shill, my wife had great results with Weigh****chers. She started that in 1999 or 2000 and lost over 50#, which she has basically kept off since (+/- 10#). That's in contrast to me; I hit 250 lbs in 1990 and got a severe lecture from my doc (family history of diabetes, heart disease, etc.). Just by eating less stupidly and resuming riding my bike, which I had left idle for a year or two after moving to the Big City, I lost 55# in about a year. I started racing in 1992 and maintained that weight until 2000 when I stopped racing. Even at 195# I was never competitive if the road went uphil more than about 1/4 mile, bike racing is a sport for flyweights. Indurain is my height and he raced at about 170 lbs; I'd have had to have a leg amputated to get down to that weight. Gradually my weight has crept up to 230# and it is now time to do something about that. My IBW is up to 205# so I am 25# overweight- just about average mild obesity. I may try the WW thing myself, since I am already familiar with it and it's not very complicated. When I was a young faculty member, I went to a free faculty fitness workshop put on by the Human Performance & Exercise Science faculty. One lecturer said "The average American gains one pound per year." The assembled professors showed no reaction. The guy said "No, think about that. What are you going to weigh in 30 years?" I've gained weight since then, but only about seven pounds, IIRC. For me, one key was eating zero to minimum lunch. And lately, I try to reduce the late-night snacks. I say that as I type with greasy fingers from potato chips and drink a beer. Hey, we just had friends over for a party. Can't waste the leftover snacks! I weigh about the same as I did 30 years ago, but my body fat percentage is way higher. Besides weight gain, loss of muscle mass is a big issue for old folks, unless you go for testosterone and HGH injections. I'm on the slow skid towards chicken legs. I'm looking for magic pills on the internet . .. . or a time machine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LHAlcrTRA == Jay Beattie. -- Jay Beattie. -- Jay Beattie. |
#38
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Road Tires: Width vs Speed Penalties?
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 22:59:43 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 12/17/2017 1:50 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 16:03:18 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: John B. wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 22:31:59 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/16/2017 8:58 PM, John B. wrote: If one wants to get scientific, my guess is that the average guy posting has well over 10% body weight as fat, in fact I read that the *average* Usian is 23 lbs over his "ideal body weight" (which totally ignores tissue make up). (Note: I an excepting James from this as I believe that he is still maintaining his lean body mass near optimum). So, to be scientific, lets say, "You'd be far, far better off getting rid of 15 - 20 lbs of that stuff hanging over your belt, before you start buying new tires.... its cheaper too :-) I think the difference is: For most of us here, buying new tires is possible. In fact, it's easy. Losing 20 pounds, on the other hand... Geeze Frank, losing weight is probably the easiest thing that a person can do..... Just keep your mouth closed :-) This forum is often a shining example of exactly how hard it is to "just keep your mouth closed". LOL! Well, the internet in general falls into that. I am reminded of a quote attrinuted to Miles Davis in the mid 1950s. John Coltrane was in the first great quintet of Miles's and famous for playing on and on. At the end of one take, Miles chastized him and Trane replied "Sorry, man, I couldn't figure out how to stop." Miles replied "take the horn out of your mouth." Speaking of weight loss and not meaning to shound like a shill, my wife had great results with Weigh****chers. She started that in 1999 or 2000 and lost over 50#, which she has basically kept off since (+/- 10#). That's in contrast to me; I hit 250 lbs in 1990 and got a severe lecture from my doc (family history of diabetes, heart disease, etc.). Just by eating less stupidly and resuming riding my bike, which I had left idle for a year or two after moving to the Big City, I lost 55# in about a year. I started racing in 1992 and maintained that weight until 2000 when I stopped racing. Even at 195# I was never competitive if the road went uphil more than about 1/4 mile, bike racing is a sport for flyweights. Indurain is my height and he raced at about 170 lbs; I'd have had to have a leg amputated to get down to that weight. Gradually my weight has crept up to 230# and it is now time to do something about that. My IBW is up to 205# so I am 25# overweight- just about average mild obesity. I may try the WW thing myself, since I am already familiar with it and it's not very complicated. When I was a young faculty member, I went to a free faculty fitness workshop put on by the Human Performance & Exercise Science faculty. One lecturer said "The average American gains one pound per year." The assembled professors showed no reaction. The guy said "No, think about that. What are you going to weigh in 30 years?" I've gained weight since then, but only about seven pounds, IIRC. For me, one key was eating zero to minimum lunch. And lately, I try to reduce the late-night snacks. I say that as I type with greasy fingers from potato chips and drink a beer. Hey, we just had friends over for a party. Can't waste the leftover snacks! The solution is quite simple. Energy in versus energy out. -- Cheers, John B. |
#39
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Road Tires: Width vs Speed Penalties?
On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 9:32:11 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 7:59:48 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/17/2017 1:50 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 16:03:18 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone wrote: John B. wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 22:31:59 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 12/16/2017 8:58 PM, John B. wrote: If one wants to get scientific, my guess is that the average guy posting has well over 10% body weight as fat, in fact I read that the *average* Usian is 23 lbs over his "ideal body weight" (which totally ignores tissue make up). (Note: I an excepting James from this as I believe that he is still maintaining his lean body mass near optimum). So, to be scientific, lets say, "You'd be far, far better off getting rid of 15 - 20 lbs of that stuff hanging over your belt, before you start buying new tires.... its cheaper too :-) I think the difference is: For most of us here, buying new tires is possible. In fact, it's easy. Losing 20 pounds, on the other hand... Geeze Frank, losing weight is probably the easiest thing that a person can do..... Just keep your mouth closed :-) This forum is often a shining example of exactly how hard it is to "just keep your mouth closed". LOL! Well, the internet in general falls into that. I am reminded of a quote attrinuted to Miles Davis in the mid 1950s. John Coltrane was in the first great quintet of Miles's and famous for playing on and on. At the end of one take, Miles chastized him and Trane replied "Sorry, man, I couldn't figure out how to stop." Miles replied "take the horn out of your mouth." Speaking of weight loss and not meaning to shound like a shill, my wife had great results with Weigh****chers. She started that in 1999 or 2000 and lost over 50#, which she has basically kept off since (+/- 10#). That's in contrast to me; I hit 250 lbs in 1990 and got a severe lecture from my doc (family history of diabetes, heart disease, etc.). Just by eating less stupidly and resuming riding my bike, which I had left idle for a year or two after moving to the Big City, I lost 55# in about a year. I started racing in 1992 and maintained that weight until 2000 when I stopped racing. Even at 195# I was never competitive if the road went uphil more than about 1/4 mile, bike racing is a sport for flyweights. Indurain is my height and he raced at about 170 lbs; I'd have had to have a leg amputated to get down to that weight. Gradually my weight has crept up to 230# and it is now time to do something about that. My IBW is up to 205# so I am 25# overweight- just about average mild obesity. I may try the WW thing myself, since I am already familiar with it and it's not very complicated. When I was a young faculty member, I went to a free faculty fitness workshop put on by the Human Performance & Exercise Science faculty. One lecturer said "The average American gains one pound per year." The assembled professors showed no reaction. The guy said "No, think about that. What are you going to weigh in 30 years?" I've gained weight since then, but only about seven pounds, IIRC. For me, one key was eating zero to minimum lunch. And lately, I try to reduce the late-night snacks. I say that as I type with greasy fingers from potato chips and drink a beer. Hey, we just had friends over for a party. Can't waste the leftover snacks! I weigh about the same as I did 30 years ago, but my body fat percentage is way higher. Besides weight gain, loss of muscle mass is a big issue for old folks, unless you go for testosterone and HGH injections. I'm on the slow skid towards chicken legs. I'm looking for magic pills on the internet .. . . or a time machine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LHAlcrTRA == Jay Beattie. -- Jay Beattie. -- Jay Beattie. try whey |
#40
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Road Tires: Width vs Speed Penalties?
On Mon, 18 Dec 2017 12:25:34 +0700, John B wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2017 22:59:43 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote: When I was a young faculty member, I went to a free faculty fitness workshop put on by the Human Performance & Exercise Science faculty. One lecturer said "The average American gains one pound per year." The assembled professors showed no reaction. The guy said "No, think about that. What are you going to weigh in 30 years?" I've gained weight since then, but only about seven pounds, IIRC. For me, one key was eating zero to minimum lunch. And lately, I try to reduce the late-night snacks. I say that as I type with greasy fingers from potato chips and drink a beer. Hey, we just had friends over for a party. Can't waste the leftover snacks! The solution is quite simple. Energy in versus energy out. Not quite. The loss of muscle mass, especially after age 50, is dramatic. No only are we gaining an averag eof a pound of fat a year, we're probably also losing an average of a pound of muscle a year. Fo most people that mass loss occurs in the legs, reducing strength and by one's 80s adversely affecting the ability to walk, climb stairs, stand up from a chair, get in and out of cars, prevent falls, etc. I've been working in ursing homes since 1990 and have seen this as one of the most common underlying causes of temporary and permanent placement- loss of leg strength resulting in adverse outcomes. Bicyclists probably have less leg strength and muscle mass loss than most other people (skiers, hikers and runners probably maintain better, too). Strength training is an important tool for preventing these losses. If you want to improve your odds of staying out of the nursing home in the future, keep those muscles strong! Instead of having half the strength at 80 than you had at 30, aim to have 85% of that strength. Your quality of life will be hugely better. Yoga can help with your balance and flexibility. Cycling will help everything else. |
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