Nipple to nipple

Strolling around the bike-stuff websites, I came upon these
wheels:

http://tinyurl.com/6e5hq

The significant feature is that the spokes go from one nipple,
through the hub, to a nipple on the other side of the rim.

At least, that's what the text says. The pictures aren't
saying that.

The claim is that it increases stiffness.

Now, I have two problems with this design.

1. The spoke starts out bent due to the dishing on either
side of the hub.

2. If the spoke really is a single unit from nipple to
nipple, doesn't acceleration bend it?

I don't see if there's anything pinning the center of the
spoke to the hub, so it's possible the hub is floating
in the star between all the spokes, and free to slide
around, which you would think would be a major reduction
in stiffness, so maybe there's something pinning it.
And maybe it's actually split and the two halves of a
spoke are merely pinned at the same point, which would
give the same tensional balance, but kind of blow the
concept.

Anyone seen these and evaluated their performance?

--Blair
"Yeah. Those hubs will still be
around in 12 years. Not."

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

Strolling around the bike-stuff websites, I came upon these
wheels:

http://tinyurl.com/6e5hq

The significant feature is that the spokes go from one nipple,
through the hub, to a nipple on the other side of the rim.

At least, that's what the text says. The pictures aren't
saying that.

Ah yes, the "Mickey Mouse" wheels. These have been discussed before on
this newsgroup, you can do a Google Groups search to find some old threads.

The claim is that it increases stiffness.

Now, I have two problems with this design.

Only two?
How about:

- Price $849.98

- "WHAT HAPPENS IF I BREAK A SPOKE ?
The Kevlar / carbon fiber combination produces an incredibly strong and
tough spoke. Under normal use, it is virtually impossible to break the
fibers in a Topolino spoke. Topolino spokes are not subject to flex
fatigue like steel spokes, because they cannot move where they join the
hub and do not experience the bend and squirm associated with conventional
steel spokes. A small nick in the spoke should normally be no problem. If
a spoke ever does somehow fail, half of the spokes and one side of the hub
are removed and replaced as one modular piece. Although not as inexpensive
as a traditional steel spoke, the process is relatively straightforward
(no special tools) and these "halves" are provided at a very reasonable
cost."

- "CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT YOUR RIMS ?
Our clincher rims are made to our exacting specifications, which include
unusually high standards for roundness. The material is an enhanced,
heat-treated 6000 series aluminum. The rim seam is welded, not sleeved and
the brake track is machined smooth for seamless braking performance right
out of the box."

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

Strolling around the bike-stuff websites, I came upon these
wheels:

http://tinyurl.com/6e5hq

The significant feature is that the spokes go from one nipple,
through the hub, to a nipple on the other side of the rim.

At least, that's what the text says. The pictures aren't
saying that.

Ah yes, the "Mickey Mouse" wheels. These have been discussed before on
this newsgroup, you can do a Google Groups search to find some old threads.

The claim is that it increases stiffness.

Now, I have two problems with this design.

Only two?
How about:

- Price $849.98

- "WHAT HAPPENS IF I BREAK A SPOKE ?
The Kevlar / carbon fiber combination produces an incredibly strong and
tough spoke. Under normal use, it is virtually impossible to break the
fibers in a Topolino spoke. Topolino spokes are not subject to flex
fatigue like steel spokes, because they cannot move where they join the
hub and do not experience the bend and squirm associated with conventional
steel spokes. A small nick in the spoke should normally be no problem. If
a spoke ever does somehow fail, half of the spokes and one side of the hub
are removed and replaced as one modular piece. Although not as inexpensive
as a traditional steel spoke, the process is relatively straightforward
(no special tools) and these "halves" are provided at a very reasonable
cost."

- "CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT YOUR RIMS ?
Our clincher rims are made to our exacting specifications, which include
unusually high standards for roundness. The material is an enhanced,
heat-treated 6000 series aluminum. The rim seam is welded, not sleeved and
the brake track is machined smooth for seamless braking performance right
out of the box."

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Blair P. Houghton wrote:

Strolling around the bike-stuff websites, I came upon these
wheels:

http://tinyurl.com/6e5hq

The significant feature is that the spokes go from one nipple,
through the hub, to a nipple on the other side of the rim.

At least, that's what the text says. The pictures aren't
saying that.

Ah yes, the "Mickey Mouse" wheels. These have been discussed before on
this newsgroup, you can do a Google Groups search to find some old threads.

The claim is that it increases stiffness.

Now, I have two problems with this design.

Only two?
How about:

- Price $849.98

- "WHAT HAPPENS IF I BREAK A SPOKE ?
The Kevlar / carbon fiber combination produces an incredibly strong and
tough spoke. Under normal use, it is virtually impossible to break the
fibers in a Topolino spoke. Topolino spokes are not subject to flex
fatigue like steel spokes, because they cannot move where they join the
hub and do not experience the bend and squirm associated with conventional
steel spokes. A small nick in the spoke should normally be no problem. If
a spoke ever does somehow fail, half of the spokes and one side of the hub
are removed and replaced as one modular piece. Although not as inexpensive
as a traditional steel spoke, the process is relatively straightforward
(no special tools) and these "halves" are provided at a very reasonable
cost."

- "CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT YOUR RIMS ?
Our clincher rims are made to our exacting specifications, which include
unusually high standards for roundness. The material is an enhanced,
heat-treated 6000 series aluminum. The rim seam is welded, not sleeved and
the brake track is machined smooth for seamless braking performance right
out of the box."

--
Benjamin Lewis

I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of
oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate
commerce. -- J. Edgar Hoover

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
The significant feature is that the spokes go from one nipple,
through the hub, to a nipple on the other side of the rim.

At least, that's what the text says. The pictures aren't
saying that.

Pictures:

http://www.topolinotech.com/wheel-technology.shtml

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
The significant feature is that the spokes go from one nipple,
through the hub, to a nipple on the other side of the rim.

At least, that's what the text says. The pictures aren't
saying that.

Pictures:

http://www.topolinotech.com/wheel-technology.shtml

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
The significant feature is that the spokes go from one nipple,
through the hub, to a nipple on the other side of the rim.

At least, that's what the text says. The pictures aren't
saying that.

Pictures:

http://www.topolinotech.com/wheel-technology.shtml

"Blair P. Houghton" wrote in message
...
Strolling around the bike-stuff websites, I came upon these
wheels:

http://tinyurl.com/6e5hq

The significant feature is that the spokes go from one nipple,
through the hub, to a nipple on the other side of the rim.

At least, that's what the text says. The pictures aren't
saying that.

The claim is that it increases stiffness.

Now, I have two problems with this design.

1. The spoke starts out bent due to the dishing on either
side of the hub.

2. If the spoke really is a single unit from nipple to
nipple, doesn't acceleration bend it?

I don't see if there's anything pinning the center of the
spoke to the hub, so it's possible the hub is floating
in the star between all the spokes, and free to slide
around, which you would think would be a major reduction
in stiffness, so maybe there's something pinning it.
And maybe it's actually split and the two halves of a
spoke are merely pinned at the same point, which would
give the same tensional balance, but kind of blow the
concept.

Anyone seen these and evaluated their performance?

I have a pair and have put about 1600 miles on them in 2 1/2 months, so here
are my initial impressions. I got them because they seemed like the best
"light" wheel for a heavy rider. Their website makes note of the fact that
big riders should like them because the spokes are so light they can use
more of them. They also claim they are not just a "race" wheel but an
"everyday" wheel. And I also spoke with a big, heavy, powerful guy that
loved his.

It should be noted I'm very rough on wheels. Besides my weight, the roads I
ride are rough, and I like taking short cuts. By comparison, my wheels
before this were a pair of hand-built Mavic Open Pros 32 spoke on Ultegra
hubs with DT spokes. These were always going out of true. When asked, the
builder (who has a good reputation nationally) told me he thought that was
pretty standard wear considering my size. Now... about the Topolinos...

They are very light and so far very strong (so far). My pair weighed 1420
grams... a little above the claimed weight of 1390, but not bad. They have
all the advantages of light wheels... fast acceleration, easy climbing, etc.
that made me want a light pair. Now the strong part. I weigh 265lbs. I
have ridden them on every ride since I put them on. Over mostly rural roads
(with all the accompanying potholes, train tracks, rednecks forcing me off
the road, etc.) they have stayed true, and there is no sign of weakening
(cracks near the nipples, things like that). Here's hoping the good luck
continues in that area. They haven't required a single touch of the spoke
wrench.

The ride is much smoother than any other wheel I've ridden. They do a
wonderful job of smoothing out the road. Because the spokes pass through
the hubs (yes, they do that, well... actually the hub flanges) I heard
others describe the it like a hammock for the hub. They feel a little
bouncy to me if that makes sense, and I could see how someone who wants
things very stiff and tight might not like them.

Any negatives you ask? Well, yes. Topolino uses Loc-Tight on the nipples
to keep them from moving. If you do have to true the wheel, the company
recommends using a torch to heat up the nipple to loosen the goo. I would
guess the alloy nipples are sure to strip if you don't. If you do break a
spoke ( and I have to admit that short of catastrophe I don't see how you
could), you have to send it back and get half the wheel replaced. But all
boutique wheels going to have some problems like that. As far as the
price... they're completive with others in their category. If you are a
die-hard 32-36 spoke bomb-proof wheel fan, you'll think they're over priced,
but then you'd have to think that about all the boutique wheels. Just don't
test ride a pair... especially uphill!

In summary, so far so good. They have been light and strong for me, and I
enjoy the ride. We'll see how the next few thousand miles go.

As always, YMMV.

"Blair P. Houghton" wrote in message
...
Strolling around the bike-stuff websites, I came upon these
wheels:

http://tinyurl.com/6e5hq

The significant feature is that the spokes go from one nipple,
through the hub, to a nipple on the other side of the rim.

At least, that's what the text says. The pictures aren't
saying that.

The claim is that it increases stiffness.

Now, I have two problems with this design.

1. The spoke starts out bent due to the dishing on either
side of the hub.

2. If the spoke really is a single unit from nipple to
nipple, doesn't acceleration bend it?

I don't see if there's anything pinning the center of the
spoke to the hub, so it's possible the hub is floating
in the star between all the spokes, and free to slide
around, which you would think would be a major reduction
in stiffness, so maybe there's something pinning it.
And maybe it's actually split and the two halves of a
spoke are merely pinned at the same point, which would
give the same tensional balance, but kind of blow the
concept.

Anyone seen these and evaluated their performance?

I have a pair and have put about 1600 miles on them in 2 1/2 months, so here
are my initial impressions. I got them because they seemed like the best
"light" wheel for a heavy rider. Their website makes note of the fact that
big riders should like them because the spokes are so light they can use
more of them. They also claim they are not just a "race" wheel but an
"everyday" wheel. And I also spoke with a big, heavy, powerful guy that
loved his.

It should be noted I'm very rough on wheels. Besides my weight, the roads I
ride are rough, and I like taking short cuts. By comparison, my wheels
before this were a pair of hand-built Mavic Open Pros 32 spoke on Ultegra
hubs with DT spokes. These were always going out of true. When asked, the
builder (who has a good reputation nationally) told me he thought that was
pretty standard wear considering my size. Now... about the Topolinos...

They are very light and so far very strong (so far). My pair weighed 1420
grams... a little above the claimed weight of 1390, but not bad. They have
all the advantages of light wheels... fast acceleration, easy climbing, etc.
that made me want a light pair. Now the strong part. I weigh 265lbs. I
have ridden them on every ride since I put them on. Over mostly rural roads
(with all the accompanying potholes, train tracks, rednecks forcing me off
the road, etc.) they have stayed true, and there is no sign of weakening
(cracks near the nipples, things like that). Here's hoping the good luck
continues in that area. They haven't required a single touch of the spoke
wrench.

The ride is much smoother than any other wheel I've ridden. They do a
wonderful job of smoothing out the road. Because the spokes pass through
the hubs (yes, they do that, well... actually the hub flanges) I heard
others describe the it like a hammock for the hub. They feel a little
bouncy to me if that makes sense, and I could see how someone who wants
things very stiff and tight might not like them.

Any negatives you ask? Well, yes. Topolino uses Loc-Tight on the nipples
to keep them from moving. If you do have to true the wheel, the company
recommends using a torch to heat up the nipple to loosen the goo. I would
guess the alloy nipples are sure to strip if you don't. If you do break a
spoke ( and I have to admit that short of catastrophe I don't see how you
could), you have to send it back and get half the wheel replaced. But all
boutique wheels going to have some problems like that. As far as the
price... they're completive with others in their category. If you are a
die-hard 32-36 spoke bomb-proof wheel fan, you'll think they're over priced,
but then you'd have to think that about all the boutique wheels. Just don't
test ride a pair... especially uphill!

In summary, so far so good. They have been light and strong for me, and I
enjoy the ride. We'll see how the next few thousand miles go.

As always, YMMV.

"Blair P. Houghton" wrote in message
...
Strolling around the bike-stuff websites, I came upon these
wheels:

http://tinyurl.com/6e5hq

The significant feature is that the spokes go from one nipple,
through the hub, to a nipple on the other side of the rim.

At least, that's what the text says. The pictures aren't
saying that.

The claim is that it increases stiffness.

Now, I have two problems with this design.

1. The spoke starts out bent due to the dishing on either
side of the hub.

2. If the spoke really is a single unit from nipple to
nipple, doesn't acceleration bend it?

I don't see if there's anything pinning the center of the
spoke to the hub, so it's possible the hub is floating
in the star between all the spokes, and free to slide
around, which you would think would be a major reduction
in stiffness, so maybe there's something pinning it.
And maybe it's actually split and the two halves of a
spoke are merely pinned at the same point, which would
give the same tensional balance, but kind of blow the
concept.

Anyone seen these and evaluated their performance?

I have a pair and have put about 1600 miles on them in 2 1/2 months, so here
are my initial impressions. I got them because they seemed like the best
"light" wheel for a heavy rider. Their website makes note of the fact that
big riders should like them because the spokes are so light they can use
more of them. They also claim they are not just a "race" wheel but an
"everyday" wheel. And I also spoke with a big, heavy, powerful guy that
loved his.

It should be noted I'm very rough on wheels. Besides my weight, the roads I
ride are rough, and I like taking short cuts. By comparison, my wheels
before this were a pair of hand-built Mavic Open Pros 32 spoke on Ultegra
hubs with DT spokes. These were always going out of true. When asked, the
builder (who has a good reputation nationally) told me he thought that was
pretty standard wear considering my size. Now... about the Topolinos...

They are very light and so far very strong (so far). My pair weighed 1420
grams... a little above the claimed weight of 1390, but not bad. They have
all the advantages of light wheels... fast acceleration, easy climbing, etc.
that made me want a light pair. Now the strong part. I weigh 265lbs. I
have ridden them on every ride since I put them on. Over mostly rural roads
(with all the accompanying potholes, train tracks, rednecks forcing me off
the road, etc.) they have stayed true, and there is no sign of weakening
(cracks near the nipples, things like that). Here's hoping the good luck
continues in that area. They haven't required a single touch of the spoke
wrench.

The ride is much smoother than any other wheel I've ridden. They do a
wonderful job of smoothing out the road. Because the spokes pass through
the hubs (yes, they do that, well... actually the hub flanges) I heard
others describe the it like a hammock for the hub. They feel a little
bouncy to me if that makes sense, and I could see how someone who wants
things very stiff and tight might not like them.

Any negatives you ask? Well, yes. Topolino uses Loc-Tight on the nipples
to keep them from moving. If you do have to true the wheel, the company
recommends using a torch to heat up the nipple to loosen the goo. I would
guess the alloy nipples are sure to strip if you don't. If you do break a
spoke ( and I have to admit that short of catastrophe I don't see how you
could), you have to send it back and get half the wheel replaced. But all
boutique wheels going to have some problems like that. As far as the
price... they're completive with others in their category. If you are a
die-hard 32-36 spoke bomb-proof wheel fan, you'll think they're over priced,
but then you'd have to think that about all the boutique wheels. Just don't
test ride a pair... especially uphill!

In summary, so far so good. They have been light and strong for me, and I
enjoy the ride. We'll see how the next few thousand miles go.

As always, YMMV.