Longer spokes or longer nipples?

Hello everybody,

I recently made a new front wheel for my city bike. Unfortunately either because the manufacturer did not provide an accurate ERD for the rim (Rigida Sputnik)or because the spoke calculator I used (DT Swiss web site) did not give me the right numbers, the spokes turned out to be about 3-4mm short.

Now that I know the correct spoke length I could go ahead and buy the right spokes. Or could I instead buy some longer nipples (16mm instead of 12mm I have now)? The latter is cheaper, but is it as good?

What do you think?

Thank you in advance

Dimitris

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 4:46:40 AM UTC-7, dstamat wrote:
Hello everybody,



I recently made a new front wheel for my city bike. Unfortunately either because the manufacturer did not provide an accurate ERD for the rim (Rigida Sputnik)or because the spoke calculator I used (DT Swiss web site) did not give me the right numbers, the spokes turned out to be about 3-4mm short.



Now that I know the correct spoke length I could go ahead and buy the right spokes. Or could I instead buy some longer nipples (16mm instead of 12mm I have now)? The latter is cheaper, but is it as good?



What do you think?



Thank you in advance



Dimitris

I would get the right length spokes. Otherwise, even in a longer nipple, you're stressing a small number of nipple threads. Depending on manufacturer, a nipple that is 4mm longer may not provide 4mm of additional threaded ID.. I would suppose that you could also end up with a stress riser in the middle of the nipple (at the end of the spoke) which could result in nipple breakage with an al nipple, but that is just a guess.

-- Jay Beattie.

jbeattie wrote:
dstamat wrote:
I recently made a new front wheel for my city bike. Unfortunately either because the manufacturer did not provide an accurate ERD for the rim (Rigida Sputnik)or because the spoke calculator I used (DT Swiss web site) did not give me the right numbers, the spokes turned out to be about 3-4mm short.
Now that I know the correct spoke length I could go ahead and buy the right spokes. Or could I instead buy some longer nipples (16mm instead of 12mm I have now)? The latter is cheaper, but is it as good?
What do you think?

I would get the right length spokes. Otherwise, even in a longer nipple, you're stressing a small number of nipple threads. Depending on manufacturer, a nipple that is 4mm longer may not provide 4mm of additional threaded ID. I would suppose that you could also end up with a stress riser in the middle of the nipple (at the end of the spoke) which could result in nipple breakage with an al nipple, but that is just a guess.

Right, get the correct length spokes.

A longer nipple doesn't necessarily have more thread and
most likely doesn't.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NIPPLES.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

AMuzi wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
dstamat wrote:
I recently made a new front wheel for my city bike. Unfortunately
either because the manufacturer did not provide an accurate ERD for the
rim (Rigida Sputnik)or because the spoke calculator I used (DT Swiss
web site) did not give me the right numbers, the spokes turned out to
be about 3-4mm short.
Now that I know the correct spoke length I could go ahead and buy the
right spokes. Or could I instead buy some longer nipples (16mm instead
of 12mm I have now)? The latter is cheaper, but is it as good?
What do you think?

I would get the right length spokes. Otherwise, even in a longer
nipple, you're stressing a small number of nipple threads. Depending on
manufacturer, a nipple that is 4mm longer may not provide 4mm of
additional threaded ID. I would suppose that you could also end up with
a stress riser in the middle of the nipple (at the end of the spoke)
which could result in nipple breakage with an al nipple, but that is just a guess.

Right, get the correct length spokes.

A longer nipple doesn't necessarily have more thread and most likely doesn't.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NIPPLES.JPG


So what's the point of having longer nipples (besides the obvious)?

On 3/22/2014 12:14 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
dstamat wrote:
I recently made a new front wheel for my city bike. Unfortunately
either because the manufacturer did not provide an accurate ERD for the
rim (Rigida Sputnik)or because the spoke calculator I used (DT Swiss
web site) did not give me the right numbers, the spokes turned out to
be about 3-4mm short.
Now that I know the correct spoke length I could go ahead and buy the
right spokes. Or could I instead buy some longer nipples (16mm instead
of 12mm I have now)? The latter is cheaper, but is it as good?
What do you think?

I would get the right length spokes. Otherwise, even in a longer
nipple, you're stressing a small number of nipple threads. Depending on
manufacturer, a nipple that is 4mm longer may not provide 4mm of
additional threaded ID. I would suppose that you could also end up with
a stress riser in the middle of the nipple (at the end of the spoke)
which could result in nipple breakage with an al nipple, but that is just a guess.

Right, get the correct length spokes.

A longer nipple doesn't necessarily have more thread and most likely doesn't.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NIPPLES.JPG


So what's the point of having longer nipples (besides the obvious)?


Traditionally, the long ones are for wood filled (or before
that wooden) rims.

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...omponents.html

I suppose someone finds long aesthetically superior despite
more mass with no better function.

Regarding a concurrent thread, here's some classic Jobst on
Scheeren rims from 14 years ago:

"These were interesting rims in that the designer seemed to
realize
that rim cross section was weakest at the nipple holes and
that much
of the weight of most rims was wasted because all the wall
thickness
was mainly chosen to bridge these holes. For a tubular tire
track or
TT rim, where braking is not important, a thin walled rim
could be
made with little material loss at the spoke locations. The
Scheeren
achieved double wall support for spoke loads by using hardwood
separator blocks locally inside the rim at nipple holes and by
dimpling the rim bed just enough to accept the nipple head
that rose
slightly above the rim bed, could get by with a hole only as
large as
the nipple shaft, angle drilled through the rim. These rims
probably
had the best strength to weight ratio for any rim made."

Jobst Brandt

more found he
http://yarchive.net/bike/rims.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 1:14:59 PM UTC-4, Ralph Barone wrote:


So what's the point of having longer nipples (besides the obvious)?

While there are all sorts of products that are popular for mythical reasons,
I find longer nipples are easier to handle with a spoke wrench. Easier to
fit the wrench on, and maybe less chance of rounding one. YMMV.

- Frank Krygowski