May Need to Institute a Photography Ban on My Commute Bicycle

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 11:33:23 AM UTC-7, SMS wrote:
On 3/9/2014 10:36 AM, jbeattie wrote:



People want photos of my commuter, but only after leaving their initials or "wash me" in the dirt. http://tinyurl.com/kc5a8s9



O.K., I saw maybe a hundred cyclists yesterday, many of whom had little flashers -- but then again, it was overcast and started raining mid-morning. Many, if not most, were also in yellow-green-fluorescent-vomit colored jackets, vests, etc. A lot of them also had mirrors.



Yes, I got trapped in a Portland Wheelmen ride -- a virtual dork vortex..



Heh, we got trapped in something like that on Shallow Alto's Bryant

Street Bike Boulevard. Argh, those clothes are enough to irritate motorists.

That color is conspicuous -- more so than flashers in daytime, even when there is cloud cover. I am just really tired of it. I do own a jacket that color, but its not waterproof and doesn't get a lot of use this time of year.

-- Jay Beattie.

YEAH THAT'S THE PROBLEM....

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, March 9, 2014 1:48:10 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 5:11:26 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:

On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 21:33:05 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski



wrote:







On Saturday, March 8, 2014 8:48:47 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:







... more of the "guerrilla marketing" he brags about on his website.







And I guessed what it was from the thread topic, before I even saw



who had posted it.







- Frank Krygowski







Aw Frank, you're just jealous that nobody wants to photograph your



bicycle :-)







Think of it.



Folks clustering around; people with gigantic camera lenses pushing



and shoving to be in the front of the crowd; blokes squirming between



the spectators trying to see what is going on; fights breaking out;



the arrival of the riot squad; arrests; cameras impounded; cries of



pain, screams of anguish.







To photograph a Chinese made bicycle light :-(



People want photos of my commuter, but only after leaving their initials

or "wash me" in the dirt. http://tinyurl.com/kc5a8s9



O.K., I saw maybe a hundred cyclists yesterday, many of whom had little

flashers -- but then again, it was overcast and started raining

mid-morning. Many, if not most, were also in

yellow-green-fluorescent-vomit colored jackets, vests, etc. A lot of

them also had mirrors.



Yes, I got trapped in a Portland Wheelmen ride -- a virtual dork vortex.

I was riding with a couple of friends on the same "route" (out along the

Clackamas River). When we pulled by various pockets of Wheelmen riders,

they would fall in behind us like so many ducklings -- no greeting, no

nothing. Most would drop off after a while, but we ended up in the middle

of nowhere with three or four stronger riders who said nothing and who

would drop back anytime it became apparent we wanted them to pull

through. It was freakish. Anyway, we stopped briefly, and these guys

stopped with us -- apparently because they thought we were leading the

ride. I let them know we were not leading any ride (except our own),

which freaked them out because they did not know where they were. One guy

wanted to know where a certain road was, and I told him I didn't know . .

. because I didn't. I wanted to say "get the f*** away from me." For all

I know, they could still be circling the woods in Clackamas County.



I don't care if people draft me if there is a little "hey, how are you"

etc., and they trade off. Getting followed by a line of silent zombies

who refuse to pull through is just too weird.





Unfortunately bicycles and weirdness are not mutual exclusive. I've had

people fall behind and draft me on my commute home. Nearly always into the

wind. But they typically say thanks or something.



Maybe these Wheelmen are the twits that we hear about that don't know

what a door zone is or not to ride in blind spots.





--

duane

I never darft a stranger. I'll only draft someone whom I ridden with and
whom I kn ow has good riding habits. Drzfting an unknown Fred who then
slows suddenly or swerves can be very detrimental to the health of
oneself and/or their bicycle.

Cheers

Same here but I can't stop Freds from drafting me. As long as they're
polite I don't mind much. But Jay's guys were off the wall.
--
duane

On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 08:26:29 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 3/8/2014 7:07 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 17:48:47 -0800, sms
wrote:

I always get comments and questions about my lighting but now people are
asking if they can photograph my bicycle so they can remember how to
duplicate some of the stuff on there.

Print a handbill featuring a photograph of your machine and hand them
out. Include sources, prices, links, and construction details around
the periphery of the photo. On the back, provide a price list and
ordering info for things you are selling or representing. Charge 25
cents to cover the printing costs or $1 for an autographed copy. A
business card with your URL on it would probably suffice, but you
can't easily charge for that. Whatever you do, don't sign a photo
copyright release.

Despite r.b.t.'s resident village idiot's continued insistence to the
contrary, I don't sell or represent any of the stuff that I mention on
rec.bicycles.tech..

Last week there was an Intel photo shoot going on at Tech Shop San Jose
and the crew wanted me to sign a release in case I was in their video,
but I refused, explaining that I no longer give out autographs for free
and I was concerned that they would try to sell the copy of my signature
for thousands of dollars.


Well there you go. No photo release, no including in the video, no
discovery by a studio, no fame and glory as a movie star.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 7:29:17 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 1:48:10 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:

jbeattie wrote:



On Sunday, March 9, 2014 5:11:26 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:



On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 21:33:05 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski







wrote:















On Saturday, March 8, 2014 8:48:47 PM UTC-5, sms wrote:















... more of the "guerrilla marketing" he brags about on his website.















And I guessed what it was from the thread topic, before I even saw







who had posted it.















- Frank Krygowski















Aw Frank, you're just jealous that nobody wants to photograph your







bicycle :-)















Think of it.







Folks clustering around; people with gigantic camera lenses pushing







and shoving to be in the front of the crowd; blokes squirming between







the spectators trying to see what is going on; fights breaking out;







the arrival of the riot squad; arrests; cameras impounded; cries of







pain, screams of anguish.















To photograph a Chinese made bicycle light :-(







People want photos of my commuter, but only after leaving their initials



or "wash me" in the dirt. http://tinyurl.com/kc5a8s9







O.K., I saw maybe a hundred cyclists yesterday, many of whom had little



flashers -- but then again, it was overcast and started raining



mid-morning. Many, if not most, were also in



yellow-green-fluorescent-vomit colored jackets, vests, etc. A lot of



them also had mirrors.







Yes, I got trapped in a Portland Wheelmen ride -- a virtual dork vortex.



I was riding with a couple of friends on the same "route" (out along the



Clackamas River). When we pulled by various pockets of Wheelmen riders,



they would fall in behind us like so many ducklings -- no greeting, no



nothing. Most would drop off after a while, but we ended up in the middle



of nowhere with three or four stronger riders who said nothing and who



would drop back anytime it became apparent we wanted them to pull



through. It was freakish. Anyway, we stopped briefly, and these guys



stopped with us -- apparently because they thought we were leading the



ride. I let them know we were not leading any ride (except our own),



which freaked them out because they did not know where they were. One guy



wanted to know where a certain road was, and I told him I didn't know . .



. because I didn't. I wanted to say "get the f*** away from me." For all



I know, they could still be circling the woods in Clackamas County.







I don't care if people draft me if there is a little "hey, how are you"



etc., and they trade off. Getting followed by a line of silent zombies



who refuse to pull through is just too weird.











Unfortunately bicycles and weirdness are not mutual exclusive. I've had



people fall behind and draft me on my commute home. Nearly always into the



wind. But they typically say thanks or something.







Maybe these Wheelmen are the twits that we hear about that don't know



what a door zone is or not to ride in blind spots.











--



duane



I never darft a stranger. I'll only draft someone whom I ridden with and

whom I kn ow has good riding habits. Drzfting an unknown Fred who then

slows suddenly or swerves can be very detrimental to the health of

oneself and/or their bicycle.



Cheers



Same here but I can't stop Freds from drafting me. As long as they're

polite I don't mind much. But Jay's guys were off the wall.

--

duane

I don't mind be drafted by someone I don't know unless they're so close they're lapping wheels. That can be scary.

Cheers

On Sun, 09 Mar 2014 08:26:29 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 3/8/2014 7:07 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 17:48:47 -0800, sms
wrote:

I always get comments and questions about my lighting but now people are
asking if they can photograph my bicycle so they can remember how to
duplicate some of the stuff on there.

Print a handbill featuring a photograph of your machine and hand them
out. Include sources, prices, links, and construction details around
the periphery of the photo. On the back, provide a price list and
ordering info for things you are selling or representing. Charge 25
cents to cover the printing costs or $1 for an autographed copy. A
business card with your URL on it would probably suffice, but you
can't easily charge for that. Whatever you do, don't sign a photo
copyright release.

Despite r.b.t.'s resident village idiot's continued insistence to the
contrary, I don't sell or represent any of the stuff that I mention on
rec.bicycles.tech..

Well, if you can't get paid to endorse a product, perhaps you can get
paid to not criticize it. Whatever works.

The problem is that even if you are not selling or representing
products, your postings and web site make it appear that you are doing
so. You might want to have a disinterested party take a look at both
to determine if there is a problem.

Last week there was an Intel photo shoot going on at Tech Shop San Jose
and the crew wanted me to sign a release in case I was in their video,
but I refused, explaining that I no longer give out autographs for free
and I was concerned that they would try to sell the copy of my signature
for thousands of dollars.

Ummm... the photo release was for photos of your bicycle, not of
yourself.

Actually, I was serious. You should carry around photo handbills,
business cards, and collect 25 cents for them. The purpose of the
handbills and business cards are obvious, but the 25 cents requires
some explanation. The idea is to do something that will make the
interested party remember you. Without the 25 cent charge, you are on
the same level as any political hack passing out literature for their
election or for their cause. Nobody will remember you. Nobody
remembers anything that's free. However, if you charge for the photo
and information, you will certainly be remembered. I've done similar
things, with acceptable results, so I know it works.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

AE6KS -

I've done similar
things, with acceptable results, so I know it works.


LIKE WHAT ?

On 3/9/2014 5:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

The problem is that even if you are not selling or representing
products, your postings and web site make it appear that you are doing
so. You might want to have a disinterested party take a look at both
to determine if there is a problem.

The web sites explicitly state that they are purely informational and
that I don't sell any of the items listed. Our RVI is well aware of this
but he just likes to be smarmy. Whatever. This is Usenet. The best
anyone can do is to filter out the off-topic political stuff as well as
the annoying problem posters.

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 10:26:58 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
The web sites explicitly state that they are purely informational and
that I don't sell any of the items listed.

Does this mean that you've removed the statements that were on there for years,
the one bragging about engaging in "guerrilla marketing" to the bicycling
community, and the one asking something like "if you decide to buy
this junk, please begin by clicking here so I can get my commission"?
(That's not a precise quote, but it's close enough.)

I pointed those statements out within the past few months. Several others
verified that they were indeed on your websites, and gave you serious negative
feedback.

Did the negative feedback hurt your "guerrilla marketing"? So much so that
you've now hidden your motives more thoroughly?

- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, March 9, 2014 1:36:13 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:

Yes, I got trapped in a Portland Wheelmen ride -- a virtual dork vortex. I was riding with a couple of friends on the same "route" (out along the Clackamas River). When we pulled by various pockets of Wheelmen riders, they would fall in behind us like so many ducklings -- no greeting, no nothing. Most would drop off after a while, but we ended up in the middle of nowhere with three or four stronger riders who said nothing and who would drop back anytime it became apparent we wanted them to pull through. It was freakish.

I guess that's a hazard of riding in a place where cycling is so popular.
Plus, perhaps, riding using the usual :uniform" where everyone
wears the same style shorts, same style jerseys (but with perhaps different
"sponsors") and of course the same style hat. If it had been a tweed
ride, they'd have known you weren't part of the group.

As it was, it sounds like you were indistinguishable from the group, and the
group was large enough that members didn't know each other.

Anyway, we stopped briefly, and these guys stopped with us -- apparently because they thought we were leading the ride. I let them know we were not leading any ride (except our own), which freaked them out because they did not know where they were. One guy wanted to know where a certain road was, and I told him I didn't know . . . because I didn't. I wanted to say "get the f*** away from me." For all I know, they could still be circling the woods in Clackamas County.

That points out a downside of a club ride: Since a rider doesn't have to
do the navigating, he doesn't necessarily know where he is. I enjoy the
conversation and sociability of club rides, even (or especially) small ones..
But it means that once I'm back home, I may not be able to reconstruct
the route so I could do it again on my own. And if I had to leave the group
partway through the ride, I might require some time with a good map
(or a GPS) to tell me where I am.

Those guys had the same problem, in spades, because the guy they thought
was their "leader" was just another cyclist. It was probably a learning
experience for them!

I don't care if people draft me if there is a little "hey, how are you" etc., and they trade off. Getting followed by a line of silent zombies who refuse to pull through is just too weird.

FWIW, it's not just club riders. We had the same thing happen to us years ago,
riding through Oxford, England (IIRC), Some young guy on a utility 3 speed
hung on our wheel for miles into a headwind. I tried talking to him, but he
refused to respond. That made it more weird.

- Frank Krygowski