Frame pump recommendations wanted (special situation)

On 3/12/2014 8:53 AM, Nige Danton wrote:
John B. wrote:

As I understand it the savings is in the fewer frame sizes that are
required to fit the various sizes of buyers.

Yes, that's my understanding too. Personally I Prefer the look of a
horizontal top tube.

I don't really care about the look, it's that the compact frame
philosophy of fitment is about the same as that of folding bicycles with
seatposts and steer tubes that have very wide adjustment ranges.

Longer seatposts and longer steer tubes are the wrong way to make a
frame fit a wide variety of body sizes. But it's understandable that
manufacturers want to reduce the number of different SKUs by making each
SKU "fit" more riders. If only they could do the same thing with
clothing and shoes--there might be enough naive customers to go along
with that too.

On 3/12/2014 8:53 AM, Duane wrote:
On 3/12/2014 11:03 AM, sms wrote:
On 3/12/2014 3:14 AM, Duane wrote:

I have that zefal hp on my touring bike.

Many years ago my friend was on a century ride in the Bay Area and ran a
stop sign. It was a T intersection and she was at the top of the T on
the shoulder/bike lane so there was no possibility of cross traffic. She
was really ****ed and the cop was asking her the brand of her bike so he
could write it on the ticket and she wasn't speaking. So he wrote down
"10 Speed Zefal." Maybe she could have fought the ticket since there is
no such thing as a 10 speed Zefal, plus I think the bicycle was 15
speeds.


lol. The other good thing about that pump is that it was very useful
when encountering a mad dog.

I've used mine against dogs too. Try waving a CO2 cartridge at a dog.

On 3/12/2014 12:29 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/12/2014 8:53 AM, Duane wrote:
On 3/12/2014 11:03 AM, sms wrote:
On 3/12/2014 3:14 AM, Duane wrote:

I have that zefal hp on my touring bike.

Many years ago my friend was on a century ride in the Bay Area and ran a
stop sign. It was a T intersection and she was at the top of the T on
the shoulder/bike lane so there was no possibility of cross traffic. She
was really ****ed and the cop was asking her the brand of her bike so he
could write it on the ticket and she wasn't speaking. So he wrote down
"10 Speed Zefal." Maybe she could have fought the ticket since there is
no such thing as a 10 speed Zefal, plus I think the bicycle was 15
speeds.


lol. The other good thing about that pump is that it was very useful
when encountering a mad dog.

I've used mine against dogs too. Try waving a CO2 cartridge at a dog.


Low and inside. Sttttttrrrrrrriiiiiiikkkkkkkkeeeeee!

AMuzi wrote:
On 3/12/2014 9:40 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:35:31 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/12/2014 5:55 AM, John B. wrote:

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:14:05 +0000 (UTC), Duane

wrote:



Lou Holtman wrote:

Op woensdag 12 maart 2014 00:18:54 UTC+1 schreef sms:

On Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:37:31 AM UTC, Noel Llopis wrote:



OK, before you chew me out for bringing up a frequent topic, let me say that



I've read all the previous posts on this topic on Google and I'm still left



with a lot of doubts on the topic. My LBS doesn't care a huge variety of



pumps, so maybe some of the folks here can help me out.







snip







If it'll fit on your frame this is what you want:



http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/pu2.htm







Unfortunately, one way bicycle manufacturers have cut costs is to



promote "compact frames" and many unsuspecting customers have fallen for



this scam.







You just need to measure the space and see if any of the Zefal HPX frame



pumps will fit.



There are plenty frame pumps that will fit frames with sloping toptubes

that are at least as good as the Zefal pump having a hose as a big plus

compared to the Zefal pump. Most frames with sloping toptubes even can

accomodate the Zefal pump you recommend. Once again you are stuck in your

narrow minded thoughts. Frame design has moved on as pumps have. You

missed the last 15 years. If you like frames with horizontal toptubes

that is OK, but the only reason will be for looks/aesthetic reasons.







I have that zefal hp on my touring bike. It's a great pump even without

the hose. Snaps along my down tube. I was disappointed when I bought my

tarmac that it wouldn't fit but things change. Anyway on this bike I need

both bottle cages.



I carry a Blackburn air stick that's good enough to form the tube and co2

cartridges. The air stick can pump the tire in a pinch but it's a pain.



As for the compact frame, this bike fits me better than any bike I've had

and being able to ride on the hoods is great for my back. I don't buy the

bit about compact frames being a ploy to save money. What are we talking,

5 ounces of carbon fiber? It would take a lot of that to equal the r&d

costs.



As I understand it the savings is in the fewer frame sizes that are

required to fit the various sizes of buyers.





Mike Burrows, who popularized them, claimed that as a design

feature at one time. There are many designs now, some of

which are in normal size increments, some not.



--

Andrew Muzi

www.yellowjersey.org/

Open every day since 1 April, 1971

As it was in the horizontal top tube days. The cheaper models came in 2
cm increment frame sizes the more expensive ones in 1 cm. Nothing
changed in the current sloping top tube market.

Lou


Burrows' first compact road bikes were S-M-L only, so things have at
least changed for some bikes.

That is true at that time, but it isn't anymore. Still people base their
opinion on those days.

--
Lou

On 3/12/2014 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:

Burrows' first compact road bikes were S-M-L only, so things have at
least changed for some bikes.

It has improved for some bikes, but not up to the variety of sizes that
there used to be. I'm sure that bicycle shops are pretty happy to not
have to stock as many different sizes as they did back in the olden days.

Fortunately, there seems to be a slight resurgence of non-compact frame
bikes as more cyclists have realized the negatives of compact frames.

On 3/12/2014 12:54 PM, sms wrote:
On 3/12/2014 8:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:

Burrows' first compact road bikes were S-M-L only, so things have at
least changed for some bikes.

It has improved for some bikes, but not up to the variety of sizes that
there used to be. I'm sure that bicycle shops are pretty happy to not
have to stock as many different sizes as they did back in the olden days.

Fortunately, there seems to be a slight resurgence of non-compact frame
bikes as more cyclists have realized the negatives of compact frames.

Cannondale once had an excellent dissertation on compact frames on their
web site. It's still available thanks to the Wayback machine. See
http://web.archive.org/web/20011016151032/http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/innovation/sloping.html

Of course this was the "old" Cannondale, not the present,
post-bankruptcy Cannondale, owned by Dorel.

On 12/03/14 18:15, Lou Holtman wrote:


There are plenty frame pumps that will fit frames with sloping
toptubes that are at least as good as the Zefal pump having a hose as
a big plus compared to the Zefal pump. Most frames with sloping
toptubes even can accomodate the Zefal pump you recommend. Once again
you are stuck in your narrow minded thoughts. Frame design has moved
on as pumps have. You missed the last 15 years. If you like frames
with horizontal toptubes that is OK, but the only reason will be for
looks/aesthetic reasons.


I don't understand why you would want a longer and heavier seat post.

I cannot see that the corresponding reduction in seat tube (and tiny
reduction in seat stay) length could counter the weight gain of a longer
seat post.

I think compact frames are a sales thing.

--
JS

On 12/03/14 21:14, Duane wrote:


I have that zefal hp on my touring bike. It's a great pump even without
the hose. Snaps along my down tube. I was disappointed when I bought my
tarmac that it wouldn't fit but things change. Anyway on this bike I need
both bottle cages.

I carry a Blackburn air stick that's good enough to form the tube and co2
cartridges. The air stick can pump the tire in a pinch but it's a pain.

As for the compact frame, this bike fits me better than any bike I've had
and being able to ride on the hoods is great for my back. I don't buy the
bit about compact frames being a ploy to save money. What are we talking,
5 ounces of carbon fiber? It would take a lot of that to equal the r&d
costs.


I can vouch for the capabilities of the Lezyne 'road drive' pump.

http://www.lezyne.com/en/products/ha...re#!road-drive

Easily pumps road racing bike tyres up to normal riding pressure.

Fits neatly next to a cage.

Comes with a flexible hose so you don't snap the valve off.

Has a screw on end or a push on end.

I don't use CO2 canisters.

--
JS

On 3/12/2014 2:06 PM, James wrote:
On 12/03/14 18:15, Lou Holtman wrote:


There are plenty frame pumps that will fit frames with sloping
toptubes that are at least as good as the Zefal pump having a hose as
a big plus compared to the Zefal pump. Most frames with sloping
toptubes even can accomodate the Zefal pump you recommend. Once again
you are stuck in your narrow minded thoughts. Frame design has moved
on as pumps have. You missed the last 15 years. If you like frames
with horizontal toptubes that is OK, but the only reason will be for
looks/aesthetic reasons.


I don't understand why you would want a longer and heavier seat post.

I cannot see that the corresponding reduction in seat tube (and tiny
reduction in seat stay) length could counter the weight gain of a longer
seat post.

I think compact frames are a sales thing.

Compact frames are an advantage for both the manufacturer and the
bicycle shop, so of course you will always see a defense of them by
those entities.

Cannondale got it right!
http://web.archive.org/web/20011016151032/http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/innovation/sloping.html

On 13/03/14 08:17, sms wrote:
On 3/12/2014 2:06 PM, James wrote:
On 12/03/14 18:15, Lou Holtman wrote:


There are plenty frame pumps that will fit frames with sloping
toptubes that are at least as good as the Zefal pump having a hose as
a big plus compared to the Zefal pump. Most frames with sloping
toptubes even can accomodate the Zefal pump you recommend. Once again
you are stuck in your narrow minded thoughts. Frame design has moved
on as pumps have. You missed the last 15 years. If you like frames
with horizontal toptubes that is OK, but the only reason will be for
looks/aesthetic reasons.


I don't understand why you would want a longer and heavier seat post.

I cannot see that the corresponding reduction in seat tube (and tiny
reduction in seat stay) length could counter the weight gain of a longer
seat post.

I think compact frames are a sales thing.

Compact frames are an advantage for both the manufacturer and the
bicycle shop, so of course you will always see a defense of them by
those entities.

Cannondale got it right!
http://web.archive.org/web/20011016151032/http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/innovation/sloping.html



And likely a disadvantage for many people who buy them - with the
restricted water bottle access and so on.

Many now have curved sloping top tubes, that makes it really difficult
to use a bike carrier that clamps on to the top tube.

I'm glad I asked for a traditional horizontal top tube when I had my
racing bike designed.

--
JS