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The death of rim brakes?



 
 
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  #91  
Old March 14th 19, 12:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:40:16 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-03-13 16:09, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/13/2019 3:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote:
On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and
after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim
brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy.


A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes. Hose them off and they'll
be fine.


We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked
horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy
in winter.

The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on
long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS
... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period.


What does that do to the temper of the metal? E.g. will it
harden/embrittle? Not sure if this is a problem, but worth checking.


I doubt it does much because I do not ride them until they glow white.
The only side effect I noticed was that they are noisy the first mile
afterwards. No squeal but more like HOOOO. Loud. So in areas with lots
of cattle this isn't a good idea.


You must be using shoddy brakes. F1 disc brakes run red hot
https://www.pinterest.es/pin/35114072064401057/
And not only that but F1 brakes use carbon fiber discs and are so much
lighter in weight then old fashioned metal discs.

As for glowing white hot? That would be in the 2,300 - 2,700 degree
(F) range and, I might add that steel at 700 degrees (F) has lost
about half of it's strength. At 2,000 degrees it must be similar to
wet paper.

--
Cheers,
John B.


Ads
  #92  
Old March 14th 19, 12:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 10:53:33 +1100, James
wrote:

On 14/3/19 9:36 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote:
On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and
after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim
brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy.


A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.* Hose them off and they'll
be fine.


We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly
grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter.

The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on
long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ...
and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period.


I don't know how my rims survived, MTB riding the wet and muddy forests
tracks in Winter.

Furthermore, how did I survive inferior rim brakes without the chance to
spritz from my bottle and "Phssst ... HISSSS ..."...

I shall commence counting my lucky stars.


Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain
Lions :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


  #93  
Old March 14th 19, 01:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,232
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 10:53:33 +1100, James
wrote:

On 14/3/19 9:36 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote:
On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and
after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim
brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy.


A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.Â* Hose them off and they'll
be fine.


We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly
grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter..

The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on
long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ....
and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period.


I don't know how my rims survived, MTB riding the wet and muddy forests
tracks in Winter.

Furthermore, how did I survive inferior rim brakes without the chance to
spritz from my bottle and "Phssst ... HISSSS ..."...

I shall commence counting my lucky stars.


Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain
Lions :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


In Northern Ontario Canada during berry season it's black bears you need to keep an eye open for and on when you see them.

Cheers
  #94  
Old March 14th 19, 01:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,351
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 3/13/2019 7:46 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:40:16 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-03-13 16:09, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/13/2019 3:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote:
On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and
after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim
brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy.


A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes. Hose them off and they'll
be fine.


We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked
horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy
in winter.

The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on
long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS
... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period.

What does that do to the temper of the metal? E.g. will it
harden/embrittle? Not sure if this is a problem, but worth checking.


I doubt it does much because I do not ride them until they glow white.
The only side effect I noticed was that they are noisy the first mile
afterwards. No squeal but more like HOOOO. Loud. So in areas with lots
of cattle this isn't a good idea.


You must be using shoddy brakes. F1 disc brakes run red hot
https://www.pinterest.es/pin/35114072064401057/
And not only that but F1 brakes use carbon fiber discs and are so much
lighter in weight then old fashioned metal discs.

As for glowing white hot? That would be in the 2,300 - 2,700 degree
(F) range and, I might add that steel at 700 degrees (F) has lost
about half of it's strength. At 2,000 degrees it must be similar to
wet paper.



Nowhere near those temps. Something around 100C will give
steam. Bicycle discs are stainless at any rate. The pad
material will debond from the back plate well before any
temperature effect on the disc.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #95  
Old March 14th 19, 01:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Steve Weeks
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 8:46:50 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I guess we could do a poll. How many here have had a road bike rim fail
by having the brakes eat through it?

- Frank Krygowski


I have had this problem on my folding commuter bikes, particularly the one that I use in the winter. It was always the rear wheel. My hypothesis was that the front wheel was lofting abrasive dust and slush which somehow landed on the rear wheel's braking surface. I solved the problem by converting the bike to a "roller" brake. I haven't replaced a rim on that bike in several thousand miles now. Before the conversion, I'd get about 2,000 miles on a rim before it would begin to "thump" under braking. NB: I'm a heavy user of the front brake.

There's a different sort of problem on my "good weather" folder, which I can't fit with a roller brake. After about 6,500 miles, I have just worn out my third rim. The first two had brake track wear that seemed to propagate into the center of the rim just under the rim strip. After I installed the third identical rim (Kinetix Comp 406-14), I intentionally used the rear brake *less*. After about 2,000 miles... thump, thump, thump. I took the tire off and found the rim split, but *without* the brake track wear.

I've come to the conclusion that the rim(s) were too narrow for the relatively wide (406-47) tires I've been running. I'm about to re-build the wheel with a wider (406-22) rim similar to the ones that have survived for years on my winter bike.
Steve
  #96  
Old March 14th 19, 03:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 20:13:26 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 3/13/2019 7:46 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:40:16 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-03-13 16:09, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/13/2019 3:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote:
On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and
after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim
brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy.


A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes. Hose them off and they'll
be fine.


We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked
horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy
in winter.

The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on
long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS
... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period.

What does that do to the temper of the metal? E.g. will it
harden/embrittle? Not sure if this is a problem, but worth checking.


I doubt it does much because I do not ride them until they glow white.
The only side effect I noticed was that they are noisy the first mile
afterwards. No squeal but more like HOOOO. Loud. So in areas with lots
of cattle this isn't a good idea.


You must be using shoddy brakes. F1 disc brakes run red hot
https://www.pinterest.es/pin/35114072064401057/
And not only that but F1 brakes use carbon fiber discs and are so much
lighter in weight then old fashioned metal discs.

As for glowing white hot? That would be in the 2,300 - 2,700 degree
(F) range and, I might add that steel at 700 degrees (F) has lost
about half of it's strength. At 2,000 degrees it must be similar to
wet paper.



Nowhere near those temps. Something around 100C will give
steam. Bicycle discs are stainless at any rate. The pad
material will debond from the back plate well before any
temperature effect on the disc.


I was responding to the statement that, "I do not ride them until they
glow white" (above) :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


  #97  
Old March 14th 19, 03:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

rOn Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 10:53:33 +1100, James
wrote:

On 14/3/19 9:36 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote:
On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and
after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim
brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy.


A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.* Hose them off and they'll
be fine.


We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly
grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter.

The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on
long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ...
and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period.


I don't know how my rims survived, MTB riding the wet and muddy forests
tracks in Winter.

Furthermore, how did I survive inferior rim brakes without the chance to
spritz from my bottle and "Phssst ... HISSSS ..."...

I shall commence counting my lucky stars.


Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain
Lions :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


In Northern Ontario Canada during berry season it's black bears you need to keep an eye open for and on when you see them.

Cheers


Stay out of the woods :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


  #98  
Old March 14th 19, 04:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,232
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 11:45:06 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
rOn Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:

Snipped
Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain
Lions :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


In Northern Ontario Canada during berry season it's black bears you need to keep an eye open for and on when you see them.

Cheers


Stay out of the woods :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


One time I saw a lot of black bears t my right as they were eating berries that had grown in an area that'd been burnt over a number of years ago. There was no forest there. It's kind of neat to be able to see the bears from a nice safe distance. VBEG LOL

We have Bobcats and Lynxes up there and I understand that cougars are becoming more common too.

Cheers
  #99  
Old March 14th 19, 04:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 21:18:57 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 11:45:06 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
rOn Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:

Snipped
Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain
Lions :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.

In Northern Ontario Canada during berry season it's black bears you need to keep an eye open for and on when you see them.

Cheers


Stay out of the woods :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


One time I saw a lot of black bears t my right as they were eating berries that had grown in an area that'd been burnt over a number of years ago. There was no forest there. It's kind of neat to be able to see the bears from a nice safe distance. VBEG LOL

We have Bobcats and Lynxes up there and I understand that cougars are becoming more common too.

Cheers


I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of
environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when
a cougar eats their pet dog :-)

I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose
some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox
hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


  #100  
Old March 14th 19, 07:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,232
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 12:54:41 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 21:18:57 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 11:45:06 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
rOn Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:

Snipped
Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain
Lions :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.

In Northern Ontario Canada during berry season it's black bears you need to keep an eye open for and on when you see them.

Cheers

Stay out of the woods :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


One time I saw a lot of black bears t my right as they were eating berries that had grown in an area that'd been burnt over a number of years ago. There was no forest there. It's kind of neat to be able to see the bears from a nice safe distance. VBEG LOL

We have Bobcats and Lynxes up there and I understand that cougars are becoming more common too.

Cheers


I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of
environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when
a cougar eats their pet dog :-)

I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose
some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox
hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.


Probably the same thing they think when their dog or cat gets attacked by a coyote, coydog or hawk.

Cheers
 




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