A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

The death of rim brakes?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old March 13th 19, 11:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Snipped

I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns
you on, fine.
IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited
by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads.

I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would.

YMMV

Cheers


I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in
lots of 36.

--
Cheers,
John B.


Ads
  #82  
Old March 14th 19, 12:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,104
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 10:46:16 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 9:24:03 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 6:46:50 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/12/2019 9:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/12/2019 7:23 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/12/2019 11:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/12/2019 11:07 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in
and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the
rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could
literally hear aluminum being eaten.

And yet, you survived. So did your rims.

I've heard that sound thousands of times. I've never had a crash or
rim failure as a result.

Failure in one day, no, I haven't heard that either.¬* Failure over a
shorter-than-you'd expect span of months, I've experienced that
personally as have others on this NG.

I've never had a rim fail by that mechanism at all. I'm not aware of any
of my riding friends suffering that failure.

Many, many years ago I was on a mountain bike ride where such a failure
happened to an out-of-town guy I didn't know; so I understand it's
possible. But I don't think it's at all common, at least around here.
And especially for road bikes.

Someone recently proposed that local soil content can make a difference.
I'm open to that possibility. In our area, soils typically have high
clay content, and I suppose that's not very abrasive stuff.

I guess we could do a poll. How many here have had a road bike rim fail
by having the brakes eat through it?


--
- Frank Krygowski


I haven't had any failures but I have had them wear so much that there was a groove in the brake track. At which point I replaced the rims. Ahh the bad old days where it was cheaper to buy a rim rather than a completely new wheelset for the same amount of money.


You can still get a decent, light weight rim in the $40 range.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...9&category=139 Those are super-straight, easy to build rims.
You could even go cheaper with an Alex rim. Look around the Universal site. They've got lots of rims.

The trick, though, is getting matching ERDs so you don't have to change spokes. If you're swapping out an old MA2 or something like that, you're probably looking at a CR18 https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...7&category=139 $32. Same ERD as a MA2, or pretty close. With the shallow rim-well, it's hard getting tight tires on CR18s.

Let me know. I could pick one up for you today. Shipping and handling only $75.

-- Jay Beattie.


Building up a low spoke count, high tension wheels isn't anything that an unexperienced wheel builder should do.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mavic-Aksiu...AOSwtLxca26 e

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Velomax-Cir...f0cb1f4b220f65
  #83  
Old March 14th 19, 12:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 532
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 3/13/2019 3:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Snipped

I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns
you on, fine.
IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited
by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads.

I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would.

YMMV

Cheers


I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in
lots of 36.


Please point me there! The lowest I can find on Amazon are ~$0.27 (US)
each. I looked on Ebay and couldn't get anywhere near that price point.
If they look reliable I'll use them to build wheels at a local
non-profit / pro-bono community bike shop.

Mark J.

  #84  
Old March 14th 19, 12:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 532
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 3/13/2019 3:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote:
On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and
after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim
brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy.


A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.¬* Hose them off and they'll
be fine.


We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly
grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter.

The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on
long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ...
and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period.


What does that do to the temper of the metal? E.g. will it
harden/embrittle? Not sure if this is a problem, but worth checking.

Mark J.
  #85  
Old March 14th 19, 12:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 15:32:49 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2019-03-12 11:13, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/12/2019 10:07 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically
all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone
but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look
and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are
these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around
automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and
motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim
brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on
the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a
descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and
expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came
on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I
won't buy.


How many new bicycles have drum brakes? Vanishingly few.


This was just meant as an example. Bicycles have largely remained in the
stone age, like chuck wagons where a chunk of wood pressed against the
steel ring of the wheels to brake. So bicycles kind of skipped a technology.

Supposedly there are bikes used for a long downhill ride in Hawaii that
all have large drum brakes because anything else would overheat.


There is something wrong here as disk brakes were originally built to
avoid the problem of drum brakes' failure when heated by long
descents. In fact I remember seeing logging trucks in the mountains of
California using water cooled drum brakes.


--
Cheers,
John B.


  #86  
Old March 14th 19, 12:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 05:40:22 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Snipped

I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns
you on, fine.
IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited
by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads.

I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would.

YMMV

Cheers


I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in
lots of 36.


Another shop was selling Wheelsmith spokes, and nipples for $0.96 each
in sets of 50. Or DT Swiss Champion spokes for $0.72 each in sets of
70. Or Bavel 36pcs Steel Spokes Mountain Bike Spokes MTB 251mm-268mm
W/Nipples in sets of 36 for $9.99.

--
Cheers,
John B.


  #87  
Old March 14th 19, 12:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default The death of rim brakes?

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:07:48 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 3/13/2019 3:40 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 3:17:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Snipped

I don't get the obsession of reusing spokes. If that turns
you on, fine.
IMHO 'best rim for this rider/usage' can be severely limited
by adding 'within poorly supported ERD'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I don't think it's an obsession to use the old spokes. I think it's because many of us just like to tape the new rim to the old rim and then move the spokes to the new rim without having to unlace t he old wheel. Plus it saves a fair bit of money. Where I am shops cut spokes to length and t hen thread them. My understanding is that those cut threads make a weaker spoke than do spokes with rolled threads.

I have a couple of extra wheels here that have tubular rims on t hem but the hubs and spokes are in excellent condition. If I could get a clincher rim to match the tubular rim so I could use the old spokes by taping the new rim to the old and transferring the spokes to the new rim I would.

YMMV

Cheers


I see 14 gauge spokes with nipples listed on Amazon for $0.10 each in
lots of 36.


Please point me there! The lowest I can find on Amazon are ~$0.27 (US)
each. I looked on Ebay and couldn't get anywhere near that price point.
If they look reliable I'll use them to build wheels at a local
non-profit / pro-bono community bike shop.

Mark J.


I couldn't find the site I originally quoted :-(
But there were a number of sites offering spokes in sets of 36 for
$10.00 or less. Given that the TREK bikes I see listed range from
$11,799, with disc's, to $849, with conventional brakes, a measly ten
bucks is chicken feed.



--
Cheers,
John B.


  #88  
Old March 14th 19, 12:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,692
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 2019-03-13 16:09, Mark J. wrote:
On 3/13/2019 3:36 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote:
On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and
after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim
brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy.


A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes. Hose them off and they'll
be fine.


We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked
horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy
in winter.

The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on
long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS
... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period.


What does that do to the temper of the metal? E.g. will it
harden/embrittle? Not sure if this is a problem, but worth checking.


I doubt it does much because I do not ride them until they glow white.
The only side effect I noticed was that they are noisy the first mile
afterwards. No squeal but more like HOOOO. Loud. So in areas with lots
of cattle this isn't a good idea.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #89  
Old March 14th 19, 12:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,881
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 14/3/19 9:36 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote:
On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive
and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that
still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are
inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it
had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and
after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim
brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy.


A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.¬* Hose them off and they'll
be fine.


We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly
grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter.

The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on
long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ...
and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period.


I don't know how my rims survived, MTB riding the wet and muddy forests
tracks in Winter.

Furthermore, how did I survive inferior rim brakes without the chance to
spritz from my bottle and "Phssst ... HISSSS ..."...

I shall commence counting my lucky stars.

--
JS
  #90  
Old March 14th 19, 01:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,086
Default The death of rim brakes?

On 3/13/2019 5:32 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-12 11:13, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/12/2019 10:07 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote:
I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically
all disc
brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone
but maybe I
am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look
and
certainly for a long time parts will be around but are
these rim
brakes a dead deal.


Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around
automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and
motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front?

On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim
brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on
the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a
descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and
expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came
on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally
hear aluminum being eaten.

If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I
won't buy.


How many new bicycles have drum brakes? Vanishingly few.


This was just meant as an example. Bicycles have largely
remained in the stone age, like chuck wagons where a chunk
of wood pressed against the steel ring of the wheels to
brake. So bicycles kind of skipped a technology.

Supposedly there are bikes used for a long downhill ride in
Hawaii that all have large drum brakes because anything else
would overheat.


Well, technically not as efficient as a larger disc though.

p.s. My fixed gear bike with single SP caliper up front
would attract no attention on the street 100~120 years ago
and works (goes & stops) fine for me. Maybe not for you.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DuraAce 7800 brakes v. 6600 brakes RS Techniques 4 February 1st 09 06:13 AM
Delta Brakes for sale, capy c group brakes vintage! [email protected] Marketplace 0 December 1st 08 01:47 PM
Generic Brakes vs Dura-Ace 7700 brakes ? RS Techniques 19 June 10th 06 01:30 AM
ANyone fail cast tender eye, death be to you, death come quickly whoreBanger Australia 0 June 3rd 06 11:47 AM
disc brakes on front, v-brakes on rear Per Elmsšter Mountain Biking 24 October 21st 03 10:42 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2019 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.