Danger from CF rims

I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together.. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 5:41:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true.. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.

Andrew, as I explained to you before - Mavic, Fulcrum and Campy wheel components are almost entirely made in China or Taiwan. They send the components to Romania or Italy or France for assembly which allows these companies to claim place of origin.

Most carbon rims are made in China from prepreg from Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XqJ9eZUG58

Zipp wheels are made in China by SRAM.

Probikekit which usually has the cheapest wheel prices around are quoting almost $2,000 for a 50 mm deep Shimano wheelset and they ONLY have Shimano freehubs. Do you have some other source?

It appears that all of these companies have been having trouble with delamination and that is why they are changing over to aluminum hubs with carbon fiber fairings on them. Most of these are between 200 and 400 grams heavier per set.

So as I said, it this is a warning that these tubeless rims do not work and they in all likelihood do not work for any manufacturer.

Or we can pretend like Jay that if they are "made in America" they would work fine.

On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 07:22:40 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 5:41:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.

Andrew, as I explained to you before - Mavic, Fulcrum and Campy wheel components are almost entirely made in China or Taiwan. They send the components to Romania or Italy or France for assembly which allows these companies to claim place of origin.

Most carbon rims are made in China from prepreg from Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XqJ9eZUG58

Zipp wheels are made in China by SRAM.

Probikekit which usually has the cheapest wheel prices around are quoting almost $2,000 for a 50 mm deep Shimano wheelset and they ONLY have Shimano freehubs. Do you have some other source?

It appears that all of these companies have been having trouble with delamination and that is why they are changing over to aluminum hubs with carbon fiber fairings on them. Most of these are between 200 and 400 grams heavier per set.

So as I said, it this is a warning that these tubeless rims do not work and they in all likelihood do not work for any manufacturer.

Or we can pretend like Jay that if they are "made in America" they would work fine.

Gee Tom, yet another example of your fantasies.

ENVE, located in Ogden, Utah, makes carbon fiber wheels and guarantees
them for 5 years:

"We warrant all products to be free from defects in materials or
workmanship for five years from the original purchase date (valid
proof of purchase required)."

And, have 50 dealers in and around San Francisco (50 mile radius).


cheers,

John B.

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 3:23:36 PM UTC-8, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 07:22:40 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 5:41:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit.. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.

Andrew, as I explained to you before - Mavic, Fulcrum and Campy wheel components are almost entirely made in China or Taiwan. They send the components to Romania or Italy or France for assembly which allows these companies to claim place of origin.

Most carbon rims are made in China from prepreg from Japan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XqJ9eZUG58

Zipp wheels are made in China by SRAM.

Probikekit which usually has the cheapest wheel prices around are quoting almost $2,000 for a 50 mm deep Shimano wheelset and they ONLY have Shimano freehubs. Do you have some other source?

It appears that all of these companies have been having trouble with delamination and that is why they are changing over to aluminum hubs with carbon fiber fairings on them. Most of these are between 200 and 400 grams heavier per set.

So as I said, it this is a warning that these tubeless rims do not work and they in all likelihood do not work for any manufacturer.

Or we can pretend like Jay that if they are "made in America" they would work fine.

Gee Tom, yet another example of your fantasies.

ENVE, located in Ogden, Utah, makes carbon fiber wheels and guarantees
them for 5 years:

"We warrant all products to be free from defects in materials or
workmanship for five years from the original purchase date (valid
proof of purchase required)."

And, have 50 dealers in and around San Francisco (50 mile radius).


cheers,

John B.

John, ask Jay what a warranty is worth. The wheels I bought have a two year warranty on them.

On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 5:41:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true.. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew - what has been your experience with the lifespan of disk wheel brake pads? I hardly used my Redline with Avid hydraulic brakes bought and installed new and I've had to replace the front pads once already.

On 11/30/2018 12:23 PM, wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 5:41:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.


Andrew - what has been your experience with the lifespan of disk wheel brake pads? I hardly used my Redline with Avid hydraulic brakes bought and installed new and I've had to replace the front pads once already.


Yes, discs eat brake pads.
Then again they're cheap and pop in and out with fingers; no
trouble at all.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 11/30/2018 2:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/30/2018 12:23 PM, wrote:
On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 5:41:36 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/29/2018 7:23 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8,
wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These
were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These
have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat
repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2
cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy
and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide
tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires
on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance
tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared
to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a
couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to
seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go
for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't
have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a
loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an
inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the
wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and
it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully
at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller
on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer.
They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just
as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's
insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently
Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered
a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a
couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems
getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have.
In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly
mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them
to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill
properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place.
Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low
from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump
on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing
and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire
felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel
and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it
began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and
they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return
ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that
sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything
wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the
rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other
was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim.
I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I
communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different
than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them.
But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep
carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all
suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get
from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher
set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF?Â* You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet
together.Â* Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or
some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce.Â* They're a good value and
getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip
the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your
case, hot weather braking on long descents.Â* For most people, CF
rims are a solution in search of a problem.

--Â* Jay Beattie.


I linked earlier to Campagnolo wheels but Tom seems hellbent
on incrementally financing the People's Navy which is
building supercarriers.


Andrew - what has been your experience with the lifespan of disk wheel
brake pads? I hardly used my Redline with Avid hydraulic brakes bought
and installed new and I've had to replace the front pads once already.


Yes, discs eat brake pads.
Then again they're cheap and pop in and out with fingers; no trouble at
all.


But once again, carry a spare set if you do a multi-day tour. You don't
want to be in the middle of nowhere (or north central Pennsylvania -
same thing) and find you've got no brakes.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 5:24:01 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 3:05:02 PM UTC-8, wrote:
I previously bought a set of 50 mm deep Carbon Fiber rims. These were clinchers and were 23 mm wide on the brake surfaces. These have performed faultlessly.

But I didn't want to have to carry around all of the 2 lbs of flat repair stuff - the Topeak bag, multitool, two spare tubes, two CO2 cartridges and the tool to use them and a patch kit ifneeded.

So I decided to go to tubeless as I have successfully used on Campy and Fulcrum aluminum wheelsets. They were selling the 25 mm wide tubeless wheelsets nearly as cheaply as the clincher rims.

I bought a set and they arrived. I also wanted to try 28 mm tires on my Colnago so I was mounting a set of Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires like I had used on my Pinarello Stelvio. The front appeared to mount and hold air as normal for a new mount. Usually it takes a couple of days for all of the small leaks around the sidewalls to seal. You just pump it up until it hold air pretty well and then go for a ride and that jiggles everything into place and you don't have to worry about flats again.

When I was inflating the rear tire and inflating it, there was a loud POP! and I put the wheel into the wheelstand and it was an inch out of true. I assumed this was from delamination but as the wheel was spinning in the stand the air was draining out of it and it came back into true. I pulled the tire off and looked carefully at the entire rim but couldn't see anything. I contacted the seller on Ebay and they sent me a rim which I've covered elsewhere.

In any case I ordered a second wheelset from another manufacturer. They came in pretty fast so they must have gotten to the boat just as it was leaving.

I discovered with the apparently good front wheel that there's insufficient room on the CLX 3.0 to use 28 mm tires. Conveniently Vittoria just released the Corsa Speed tubeless tires so I ordered a set from ProBikeKit. It took a month to get here so it was just a couple of days ago I tried putting them on. I had a lot of problems getting them to push up onto the step that all tubeless rims have. In fact I used up 5 CO2 cartridges without getting one properly mounted. So I had to order another lifetime supply. I expected them to arrive in another week but they were here this morning!

I mounted the new tires and inflated them and they didn't fill properly still. They were spraying the sealant all over the place. Finally they seemed to mount properly. The air pressure was low from all of the leakage getting them on properly. so I stuck a pump on and started pumping them up at around 65 psi they started TICing and when I got to 80 PSI they exploded loudly and the way the tire felt I thought that it had broken the bead. I tried the other wheel and it did the same thing. When the pressure got to 70 psi or so it began making funny noises and at 80 psi BANG!

I called Vittoria America up and gave them a piece of my mind and they were the nicest people in the world and just gave me a return ID and said that they would replace them.

So I went through the process of taking them off with all of that sealant inside. I got them off and there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the tires. So I rubbed by fingers along the top of the rims and one was delaminated for about 10 inches while the other was delaminated a third of the way around the one side of the rim. I kept the wheel box but I cannot return them through Ebay until I communicate with the seller.

Now the tube bed on the clincher wheels is completely different than that of the tubeless so I don't expect any trouble with them. But what is important to note is that probably all 50 mm deep carbon rims are made by the same manufacturer. This makes them all suspect no matter whose decal is on the rims.

If you want the advantages of a good aero section that you can get from carbon 50 mm wheels you should think more about a clincher set. These have more re-enforcement around the brake area.

WTF? You and cheap carbon wheels should not be on the same planet together. Go get some decent aluminum rims and call it good -- or some CF/aluminum hybrids like the DuraAce. They're a good value and getting cheaper because of the shift to disc wheels. You can skip the special brake pads and sketchy wet-weather braking -- or in your case, hot weather braking on long descents. For most people, CF rims are a solution in search of a problem.

-- Jay Beattie.

Just out of curiosity - how many miles do you put in a year? How much climbing? What sort of bikes do you ride? Since you don't seem to be aware that DuraAce doesn't offer Campy freehubs I have to question what sort of riding you do.

There is a reason that most of the Pro teams use Campy. Though often I wonder why since my one Ultegra bike seems to work very well except the shifters are extremely sensitive to getting dust in the mechanism after which they are throw-away.