Climbing seated on the hoods vs on the tops...??

"RonSonic" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:34:55 -0400, "Steve Freides"

wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Aug 2, 6:51 pm, Dan Connelly
wrote:
wrote:
I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if
this
is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I
prefer
the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One
possible
advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind
resistance.

Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can
ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats.
So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125
= 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this,
it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250
watts.

Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're
going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The
Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater
fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the
same climb.

Dan

Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
hoods, they would.

I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
way of aerodynamics. Might be something to that here as well, i.e., the
tops require a narrower grip than the hoods.

No science claimed, just thinkin' out loud. I'm still riding 40 cm
bars.

Some of the pro's have an almost bizarre lack of upper body strength
compared to
even a moderately fit sport level rider.* They may want the wider bar for
more
support.

* Who do you suppose opens the pickle jar at the Rasmussen household

Ron

Same is true for some runners. A Westerner went to live with the Ethopian
distance runners and wrote a book about their training. I remember him
mentioning that, despite their light weight, many couldn't even do a single
pullup and were otherwise just generally uninterested in upper body
strength.

-S-

I am convinced it's really riding style preference. I believe the
trend started when Indurain won his TDF's.


On Aug 2, 7:34 pm, "Steve Freides"
wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Aug 2, 6:51 pm, Dan Connelly
wrote:
wrote:
I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if
this
is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I
prefer
the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One
possible
advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind
resistance.

Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can
ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats.
So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125
= 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this,
it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250
watts.

Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're
going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The
Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater
fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the
same climb.

Dan

Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
hoods, they would.

I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
way of aerodynamics. Might be something to that here as well, i.e., the
tops require a narrower grip than the hoods.

No science claimed, just thinkin' out loud. I'm still riding 40 cm
bars.

-S-

On Aug 3, 9:30 am, RonSonic wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:34:55 -0400, "Steve Freides"
wrote:





"Scott" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 2, 6:51 pm, Dan Connelly
wrote:
wrote:
I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if
this
is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I
prefer
the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One
possible
advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind
resistance.

Wind resistance is approximately (speed / 40 kph)^3, assuming you can
ride @ 40 kph w/o rolling resistance at the same power on the flats.
So if you're climbing @ 16 kph, this corresponds to (2/5)^3 = 8 / 125
= 6.4% of your total power. If being on the hoods saves 5% of this,
it's 0.3% of your total power, or 0.8 watts, if you climb at 250
watts.

Obviously, wind resistance is a lesser impact the slower you're
going, so on steeper climbs, the tops have a lesser penalty. The
Euro-pros tend to climb at a fairly brisk clip, expending a greater
fraction of their power on wind resistance than you or I would on the
same climb.

Dan

Plus, the Euro pros spend more time training and racing in the drops,
so climbing on the brakehoods may be a more efficient, powerful
position that sitting slightly more upright on the tops. Most of us
don't spend enough time in the drops for the lower position on the
hoods to be that much more efficient than the tops, but the pros do.
I can assure you if they could climb faster on the tops than on the
hoods, they would.

I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
way of aerodynamics. Might be something to that here as well, i.e., the
tops require a narrower grip than the hoods.

No science claimed, just thinkin' out loud. I'm still riding 40 cm
bars.

Some of the pro's have an almost bizarre lack of upper body strength compared to
even a moderately fit sport level rider.* They may want the wider bar for more
support.

* Who do you suppose opens the pickle jar at the Rasmussen household

Ron- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why are you concerned about Rasmussen's pickle?

Tuschinski wrote:

I recall reading somewhere that relatively recently (last 10
years-ish?), the pros started riding wider bars because the ability to
breath more easily/better was worth more what they may have lost in the
way of aerodynamics.

Actually afaik that is debunked. A few inches doesn't hamper or ease
breathing. Something wich anyone who uses the tops for climbing can
agree with... you don't notice a lack of "breathing room"

Debunked? By whom? You're going to have to provide a cite for that.
Compressing your rib cage by reaching forward to grasp a narrow bar is
of course going to make it more difficult to draw a full breath. Why you
don't notice a lack of "breathing room" when you climb in the tops is
because your elbows are jutting outwards to mimic the grasping of a
wider bar. Notice your arm geometry next time you ride on your tops and
you'll see.

Climbing seated on the hoods is just plain dangerous.

Stu Fleming wrote:
Climbing seated on the hoods is just plain dangerous.

What could happen?

"Kyle Legate" wrote in message
...
Stu Fleming wrote:
Climbing seated on the hoods is just plain dangerous.

What could happen?

Well, for one thing, to reach the pedals one would have to face backwards.
Which makes it easier to see any wheel sucking scum. Which would lead to
road rage. Which could be dangerous. I can't think of any thing else
dangerous about it ;-
--
Carl

Kyle Legate wrote:
Stu Fleming wrote:
Climbing seated on the hoods is just plain dangerous.

What could happen?


You could get a weird instability problem when putting the power down.

On Aug 2, 7:45 pm, " wrote:
I have noticed that more climber climb seated with their hands on
brake hood vs climbing on the tops of the bars. I am not sure if this
is matter of style vs any actual gain performance. Personally I prefer
the tops since they allow me to relax more when climbing. One possible
advantage is that the body is lower so a little less wind resistance.

could be innervation from hand to brain to hand to ... operates better
when the wrist lines up with forearm