Putting Phil to bed...

OK, I got sick of all the speculation here so I did a little search
and dug up the info on cathione (Synonyms: (+)-Norpseudoephedrine
(NPSE), (alphaS)-alpha-((1S)-1-aminoethyl)-benzenemethanol). Below is
some useful info and links to the sites. My conclusion is that Phil
was not taking sudaphed, nor was he really taking any american product
because apparently cathione carries some not so good side effects.
Having said that, I doubt its performance enhancing for endurance
cycling; having review a few papers on both ephedrine and caffeine I
can say that a track guy might, but not an andurance cyclist.

Chris Harnish, M.S.

Products containing: norpseudoephedrine
• DIETENE DIFFUCAPS®
• EETLESS Capsules
• NOBESE NO.1 DIFFUCAPS®
• THINZ CAPSULES

(β-hydroxyamphetamine Amphetamine (α-methylphenethylamine)
is a synthetic drug originally developed (and still used) as a diet
suppressant. Today it is officially admitted for treatment of
attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and narcolepsy.
Amphetamine and its derivatives (amphetamines) are part of a broader
class of compounds called phenethylamines.

General Information
Cathinone (β-ketoamphetamine) is a monoamine alkaloid found in
the shrub Catha edulis (Khat). Closely related to ephedrine, cathine
and other phenethylamines, it is probably the main contributor to the
stimulant effect of Catha edulis. Cathinone differs from many other
amphetamines in that its structure is a ketone. Other amphetamines to
share this structure include the antidepressant bupropion and the
stimulant methcathinone. appears to show stronger activity. Cathine is
one of the optical isomers of phenylpropanolamine , an appetite
suppressant Anorectics, anorexigenics or appetite suppressants, are
substances which reduce the desire to eat. Used on a short term basis
clinically to treat obesity, some appetite suppressants are also
available over the counter. Drugs of this class are frequently
stimulants of the phenethylamine family, related to amphetamine
(speed). Indeed, amphetamine itself was sold commercially as an
appetite suppressant until it was outlawed in most parts of the world
in the late 1950s due to increasing exploitation of its stimulant
properties ("abuse"). Many amphetamines produce side effects including
addiction, tachycardia and hypertension, making prolonged unsupervised
use dangerous.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...seudoephedrine

Cathinone, a potent psychostimulant isolated from young shoots of
Catha edulis was given to four human volunteers. Examination of urine
collected from the volunteers at predetermined intervals showed the
presence of unchanged cathinone, d-norpseudoephedrine, and two
unidentified basic substances. The observed biotransformation of
cathinone to the less potent psychostimulant, d-norpseudoephedrine
involves reduction of a ketone group to alcohol, a common metabolic
pathway in humans.

http://amphetamines.com/misc/performance.html

Herbs have been used throughout history to enhance physical
performance, but scientific scrutiny with controlled clinical trials
has only recently been used to study such effects. The following herbs
are currently used to enhance physical performance regardless of
scientific evidence of effect: Chinese, Korean, and American ginsengs;
Siberian ginseng, mahuang or Chinese ephedra; ashwagandha; rhodiola;
yohimbe; CORDYCEPS: fungus, shilajit or mummio; smilax; wild oats;
Muira puama; suma (ecdysterone); Tribulus terrestris; saw palmetto
berries; beta-sitosterol and other related sterols; and wild yams
(diosgenin). Controlled studies of Asian ginsengs found improvements
in exercise performance when most of the following conditions were
true: use of standardized root extracts, study duration (8 wk, daily
dose 1 g dried root or equivalent, large number of subjects, and
older subjects. Improvements in muscular strength, maximal oxygen
uptake, work capacity, fuel homeostasis, serum lactate, heart rate,
visual and auditory reaction times, alertness, and psychomotor skills
have also been repeatedly documented. Siberian ginseng has shown mixed
results. Mahuang, ephedrine, and related alkaloids have not benefited
physical performance except when combined with caffeine. Other herbs
remain virtually untested. Future research on ergogenic effects of
herbs should consider identity and amount of substance or presumed
active ingredients administered, dose response, duration of test
period, proper experimental controls, measurement of psychological and
physiologic parameters (including antioxidant actions), and
measurements of performance pertinent to intended uses.
The chemical compound ephedrine (EPH) is an alkaloid derived from a
shrub in the family Ephedraceae, commonly known as ephedra. It is
closely related to methamphetamine and other phenethylamines.
It is a stimulant that acts on the central nervous system, and is
widely used as a nasal decongestant and a treatment for asthma.

http://amphetamines.com/misc/performance.html

Sonarrat wrote in message
...
I thought this was about Liggett retiring. WTF is this crap?

Ditto on the Liggett.

-Sonarrat.

k.j.papai Wrote:
Sonarrat wrote in messag
..
I thought this was about Liggett retiring. WTF is this crap

Ditto on the Liggett

-Sonarrat.
I'm confused too. Norpseudoephedrine is a natural metabolite o
pseudoephedrine, the active ingredient in Sudafed. Without knowin
anything about the amounts found, the Sudafed story at least i
plausible from a chemical point of view

--
antoineg

I'm sorry, I thought a little education would be helpful because
everyone was trying to figure what was going on with Phil Zajicek. My
mistake...

However, if you read the info you would know that Norpseudoephedrine
(NP), just like norepinephrine is not a metabolite of epinephrine
(adrenaline). The Sudaphed story sounds fishy because NP isn't in
Sudaphed.
CH




I'm confused too. Norpseudoephedrine is a natural metabolite of
pseudoephedrine, the active ingredient in Sudafed. Without knowing
anything about the amounts found, the Sudafed story at least is
plausible from a chemical point of view.

chris wrote:
I'm sorry, I thought a little education would be helpful because
everyone was trying to figure what was going on with Phil Zajicek. My
mistake...

However, if you read the info you would know that Norpseudoephedrine
(NP), just like norepinephrine is not a metabolite of epinephrine
(adrenaline). The Sudaphed story sounds fishy because NP isn't in
Sudaphed.
CH


from a previous responce:

Norpseudoephedrine is a natural metabolite of
pseudoephedrine

keyword metabolite. Meaning it's the product from the breakdown of
pseudoephedrine. A by product as it were.

chris wrote:


However, if you read the info you would know that Norpseudoephedrine
(NP), just like norepinephrine is not a metabolite of epinephrine
(adrenaline).

sudafed contains *pseudoephedrine*.
(http://www.pfizer.com/do/counter/all...d_allergy.html )

i posted a link earlier that says norpseudoephedrine is a metabolite of
pseudoephedrine. the sudafed story can still be fishy inspite of that, though.

heather

So there is confusion here. From what I know and have read its
chemically distinct, rather than a "leftover" following metabolism.

CH
h squared wrote in message ...
chris wrote:


However, if you read the info you would know that Norpseudoephedrine
(NP), just like norepinephrine is not a metabolite of epinephrine
(adrenaline).

sudafed contains *pseudoephedrine*.
(http://www.pfizer.com/do/counter/all...d_allergy.html )

i posted a link earlier that says norpseudoephedrine is a metabolite of
pseudoephedrine. the sudafed story can still be fishy inspite of that, though.

heather

chris wrote:

So there is confusion here. From what I know and have read its
chemically distinct, rather than a "leftover" following metabolism.

well i could be wrong, i don't know anything about that stuff, just what
i read online.
heather

chris wrote:

So there is confusion here. From what I know and have read its
chemically distinct, rather than a "leftover" following metabolism.

CH
h squared wrote in message ...

chris wrote:



However, if you read the info you would know that Norpseudoephedrine
(NP), just like norepinephrine is not a metabolite of epinephrine
(adrenaline).

sudafed contains *pseudoephedrine*.
(http://www.pfizer.com/do/counter/all...d_allergy.html )

i posted a link earlier that says norpseudoephedrine is a metabolite of
pseudoephedrine. the sudafed story can still be fishy inspite of that, though.

heather
As I understand it, (and I will defer to those more knowing than I..)
they current tests are based on the presence of either the product in
question, or it's metabolic leftovers since many products are quickly
broken down to be "usefull" to the body. Hence the metabolites
maybe/are better indicators of what a person is on...