How Do These Airborne Specs Look?

Jasper Janssen wrote:


That's nice. Now that you've admitted that your primary motivation for
posting is annoying us, I think i wont' be reading any more of your posts.

Circulus in probando. Capish?

You are the weakest link, goodbye.


Jasper

Good riddance, I say!

Gooserider wrote:


You want to be comfortable? Here you go:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/surly....html#complete

Interesting -- a $900 bike that seems like the Mongoose cromos in the
LBS for $300?? Looks like it uses old cantilever brakes, too!

Steel frame, fat tires, relaxed geometry. Fender-able, rack-able. Heavier
than your 19 pound Chinese wonder machine, but comfortable enough for you to
actually ride the thing. You ride the Surly enough and you'll easily drop
the 6 pounds of weight difference.

LOL -- but I don't see how you imagine this one more comfortable than
the Airborne models. Fat tires make for a naturally comfy ride, do
they? And how is the frame geometry more relaxed?

Plus, the Surly is a better fit for NYC,
unless you think the gossamer wheels on the Airborne are going to handle
potholes and curbs well.

"Bontrager Select 700c Wheelset, 20/24, 835g/1020g" flimsy??

Gooserider wrote:


Since I would automatically add clipless pedals(maybe a combo
clip/platform), a rack, and fenders, it would reach $1200 in no time.
However, a fifty dollar upgrade here and there amortized over time would be
no big deal. I think I would upgrade the derailleurs and crank(go to Deore
or even 105, maybe a Sugino crankset). Other than that, it would be OK for
years.

That's the thing...what do all these parts mean? If a ti frame isn't
inherently/obviously/absolutely better than a cromo/steel/alum one, how
are some cranks and pedals and whatnot better than others?

There's a reason Surlys are big with messengers. I think the Cross-Check
complete bike package is just about the best deal going.

But what makes it such a good deal, and vis-a-vis the Airborne
offerings??

Plus---it doesn't
have a flashy paint job, nor does it scream "TITANIUM PLEASE STEAL ME".
Wait, any bike screams that in NYC....

LOL -- I've even had quick-release "wings" stolen from my bike!

araby wrote:


Please don't let on this group if you do otherwise it will generate a thread
longer than this one

LOL -- no wonder they call y'all the up-wrong crowd!

If you do, you can forget the 19lb bike weight. Add another 10 and you are
getting close -if you don't mind spending more than your $1200. For the
$1250 quoted elsewhere on this thread typically you can get an Easy Racer EZ
sport. Fine as far as it goes, but forget high performance and weight (well
over 30lb).The same manufacturer makes the Ti Gold Rush. Seems right up your
street. Probably the best or as good as any touring recumbent out there.
Price a mere $5200. Weight 27lb
Check out:
http://www.easyracers.com/index.htm
and another reputable manufacturer,
http://www.ransbikes.com/
-for all their products.

Lightning's got this $6K 'bent that's 22 lbs. Not bad! =)

For what it's worth, I have been into and out of the recumbent phase. Four
years was more than enough
My last recumbent was a Rans Vrex. -$1700 and 30lb.
Cheers,

Roy

Out of the 'bent "phase"?? What happened?

Sure looks comfy...that's my next bike, a 'bent!

wrote:
If I have to go buy an engagement ring I want the diamond cheap. Dont
really care how many third world hands heads and feet get chopped for
me to have it. The people in those countries are just uncivilized and
live like animals and are totally lost without European colonial
influence


LOL -- me personally, I'm sick of hearing about Africa all the time.
It's amazing that with all the BILLIONS spent on Africa during the past
forty years, it's still the same old whine about colonialism, racism,
economic exploitation, etc.

It's too bad you've got real racists on one side who really think
Africans should be enslaved for their own good and idiots on the other
side who suffer from a case of White Man's Guilt and think they have to
go out of their way to baby the Africans.

Gooserider wrote:


Comfort has about nothing to do with bike weight, NYC. If you want to climb
hills, then the bike's gearing needs to be appropriate. A triple crankset
with wide enough range in the rear cassette will make climbing easy.

That too. But it helps to not be pedaling 30 lbs. and only 19! And of
course, the speed -- which, to my way of thinking, also means
"comfort," though in a rather more indirect sense, insofar as lighter
is faster which means that I go further for the same amount of work....

It's all very abstract, I know, and real-world experiences would mean a
mere 2 or 3 percent difference, probably...but I'm figuring that they
all add up.

ANYWAY NO OFFENSE BUT YOU KNOW THIS THREAD'S BEEN "HIJACKED" BY Y'ALL
GOING ON ABOUT ALL KINDS OF ISSUES I DIDN'T BRING UP...don't get me
wrong -- the discussion's been very interesting and informative, but
ultimately my original question hasn't been answered in a direct way:
what do you think of the specs on those two Airborne models?

I've heard (and experienced) of more people having hand pain/numbness than
any other bike complaint. Why? Because people ride ill-fitting bikes.

Hand pains over ass pains? Wow, that's news to me.

Actually, no quite. If I haven't spent any money yet, I haven't paid
them -- and a less time-consuming customer would be given priority over
a "tire-kicker" like me.

Besides, they have a vested interest in moving product. Here,
commercial pressures are most likely not a factor.



RonSonic wrote:


They get paid for it.

Ron

"NYC XYZ" wrote in
oups.com:



Interesting -- a $900 bike that seems like the Mongoose cromos in the
LBS for $300?? Looks like it uses old cantilever brakes, too!

I think it was Richard Schwinn who said "If bikes had always been made
from Aluminum, Carbon Fiber or Titanium, and they introduced chromoly
steel, it would be hailed as a miracle."

The cheapo steel bikes that are labelled as "chromoly" are usually a mix
of chromoly and high-tensile steel. Back in the day, you may have had
chromoly main tubes and High-ten stays, but I've heard of bikes in the
last 15 years having only a chromoly head tube, which is the shortest
one on the bike.

This bike is 100% chromoly, and has an intelligent design for a
bombproof, comfortable road bike. Shallow angles and long chainstays
give a comfortable ride that can better handle uneven pavement. It has
clearance for fenders and wide tires.

And cantilever brakes stop great. They're better-suited to a road bike
than v-brakes because road levers (except a pricey set of Dia-Compe
287s) don't pull enough cable. Cantilevers are also better suited to
this bike than sidepulls because they have great clearance for wide
tires and fenders.


LOL -- but I don't see how you imagine this one more comfortable than
the Airborne models. Fat tires make for a naturally comfy ride, do
they? And how is the frame geometry more relaxed?

Yes, fat tires do make for a more comfortable ride. As does relaxed
frame geometry. 72 degrees vs. 73 degrees on the size 58, which would be
about right for a guy who's 5'11". Wheelbase is longer on the Surly,
too.

It's one thing to not know how such things affect handling and comfort,
and to ask to have them explained, but here you're just mocking what
anybody who knows this stuff takes for granted.


Plus, the Surly is a better fit for NYC,
unless you think the gossamer wheels on the Airborne are going to
handle potholes and curbs well.

"Bontrager Select 700c Wheelset, 20/24, 835g/1020g" flimsy??

20 and 24 spokes for a rider weighing 230lbs? Yes, flimsy. Mega-flimsy.
Those wheels are designed for racing, where whether they last longer
than that race day isn't much of a consideration. I'm about your size,
and I prefer 36-spoke wheels, because I'd just as soon not have to true
them after every ride.


I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt, but you're looking more
and more trollish to me.

RonSonic wrote:


I just want a hooker who's a virgin and can cook.

You can certainly have it, depending on the order.

We'll all get tired of explaining things long before you know everything.

Well, yes, that too...I am grateful for the feedback, but much of it is
general and actually kind of side-steps my original question about how
the Airborne specs look. It's been a very interesting and informative
discussion for me, thank you once again, but my questions haven't been
answered directly and exactly as much as other issues relating to fit,
LBSes, Chinese Commies, other brands, etc.

Like anything else they wear and need maintenance. You seem to put in some
pretty serious mileage too.

Basically, my bike is my car. I guess I just got to grow out of that
kid's mindset of a bike being...well, just a bike! Something you ride
hard and beat up on, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, that can be rough on parts. I'm not much lighter.

Right, so I was wondering if the Airborne parts are good reliable
parts...for example, even though I'm a noob when it comes to technical
matters even I know that metal pedals will outlast plastic ones.

I'd suggest starting from there. What about the Trek would you change or
improve? Look at it from a baseline, unless you just want to try something
completely different.

Could be even lighter! That's why these Airbornes appeal to me so
much...the upright Airborne seems like a Trek 7500, but much lighter!
I was also hoping the titanium frame was stronger than aluminum.

Really isn't all that complicated is it. Shouldn't be painful or uncomfortable
though. I think the difference between a bike that fits well and one that
doesn't is that you can adapt to the one that fits, the one that doesn't is
always gonna hurt.

Well I guess it's like describing colors to a congenitally blind man --
I just haven't any idea how it couldn't "hurt" to some degree.

For example we talk about "breaking in" a saddle, and when you feel that heavy
"chew toy" grade leather then reach down and feel your own ass you gotta wonder
just which is the one doing the breaking in. Nonetheless we do get comfortable
after some miles.

I'd always supposed I'd gotten used to it, is all.

Actually, the problem is most semantic and epistemological here...what
does "pain" and "comfort" mean here, and can it ever be communicated
adequately? Perhaps I've made y'all think of undue pain when in fact I
may be describing simple physical inconveniences such as any sport
would task of the human body.

Ron

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
ups.com...

Gooserider wrote:


Since I would automatically add clipless pedals(maybe a combo
clip/platform), a rack, and fenders, it would reach $1200 in no time.
However, a fifty dollar upgrade here and there amortized over time would
be
no big deal. I think I would upgrade the derailleurs and crank(go to
Deore
or even 105, maybe a Sugino crankset). Other than that, it would be OK
for
years.

That's the thing...what do all these parts mean? If a ti frame isn't
inherently/obviously/absolutely better than a cromo/steel/alum one, how
are some cranks and pedals and whatnot better than others?

It depends on what your qualifications for "better" are.I don't think that
frame weight matters for 99% of the population. If you think that a bike
that's five pouds lighter makes a difference, you should lose the five
pounds off your ass and really fly! Higher end components work better,
especially rear deraillerurs. Fenders and a rack are just accessories to
make the bike more useful---racks carry stuff and fenders keep grime off
your back and face. And of course, clipless pedals are self-explanatory.

There's a reason Surlys are big with messengers. I think the Cross-Check
complete bike package is just about the best deal going.

But what makes it such a good deal, and vis-a-vis the Airborne
offerings??

Plus---it doesn't
have a flashy paint job, nor does it scream "TITANIUM PLEASE STEAL ME".
Wait, any bike screams that in NYC....

LOL -- I've even had quick-release "wings" stolen from my bike!