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  #121  
Old December 5th 19, 04:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Dropper posts for every bike?

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 18:06:15 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 5:23:58 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 00:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What
was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you
quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe
in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend
on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more
expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for
them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars
to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou


+1

There aren’t enough people around who understand Maslow’s hierarchy of
needs and how that applies to disposable income.


The interpretation of "disposable income" appears to be, "The money
you have left over from your salary after you've paid federal, state,
and local taxes".
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-d...income-4156858
I had always assumed that it meant after taxes, food and lodging, and
perhaps children's essentials, if any.

But to live in accord with Maslow one must only buy that bottle of
peanut butter, a loaf of Wonder Bread and a padlock for the door(s)
and quit beating your wife. The rest of the money can go for the down
payment on the new Mercedes.

Hooray, Hooray, look at me everybody, I got a Merkadese in my drive
(I'll buy the gas next payday )

And of course, washing and waxing the new car fulfils my
self-fulfillment needs so there you have it. 100% in accordance with
the Maslow rules :-)


WTF? We're talking about bikes here and not $70K luxury cars. Knock yourself out: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...road-bikes.htm $2,500 USD with discs and Di2.

That's not sock drawer or penny jar money, but its hardly conspicuous consumption. And I'm not saying that you have to buy that bike. It's just offered as an example of a Di2 bike with discs that is relatively cheap. Relatively. Again, you may think $2,500 USD is too much for any bike. I don't.

-- Jay Beattie.


I suggest that $2,500 is expensive or cheap depending largely on what
one's income is. To a guy making $10/hour, which is, or was the
minimum rate in California, it is 250 hours , or 31 days of work. To a
guy charging ( what is it now? ) $10 a minute to talk on the telephone
it is 250 minutes, or a half a day's "work".
--
cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #122  
Old December 5th 19, 04:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Dropper posts for every bike?

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:32:32 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/4/2019 5:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/4/2019 4:12 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Andrew had an excellent tale bookmarked, a guy selling a
Campy bottom bracket by telling how it would make you
irresistible to the ladies.


When sending out a particularly beautiful Gunnar:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/gun0907a.jpg

I flippantly said, "Pretty bike, it's a chick magnet."

email from customer:
"Gunnar First Ride Report:
I got a ride in before the rain hit and it was AWESOME. Thank you so
much for guiding me through the process of getting this bike.
Brian
PS Andy was right apparently, it's a chick magnet. At a stop light on my
way home with it on top of my car, a woman rolled her window down and
chatted me up about the bike. Then asked if I'd want to take a ride
sometime and gave me her phone number?!?!!?!?!!!!"


I've told this before, but: Maybe 5 years ago I built up a nice, custom
Reynolds 531 frame into a 3 speed about-town bike. I used almost
entirely parts I had in my junk boxes. I did spend $7 for a set of alloy
upright handlebars, and a few bucks at Staples for a chrome desktop wire
basket, which I zip-tied onto my front Blackburn rack. That's where
packages go.

Anyway, not long after the bike was completed, I was riding it home from
the library. A gaggle of teenage girls on the sidewalk shouted "We like
your bike!" Then one of them said "It's sexy!"

I have no explanation for that.


And you remembered it for all these years :-)

But did you tell your wife?
(and what did she say ?)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #123  
Old December 5th 19, 04:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Dropper posts for every bike?

On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 22:05:49 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 18:06:15 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 5:23:58 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 00:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What
was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you
quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers.. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe
in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend
on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more
expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for
them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars
to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou


+1

There aren’t enough people around who understand Maslow’s hierarchy of
needs and how that applies to disposable income.

The interpretation of "disposable income" appears to be, "The money
you have left over from your salary after you've paid federal, state,
and local taxes".
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-d...income-4156858
I had always assumed that it meant after taxes, food and lodging, and
perhaps children's essentials, if any.

But to live in accord with Maslow one must only buy that bottle of
peanut butter, a loaf of Wonder Bread and a padlock for the door(s)
and quit beating your wife. The rest of the money can go for the down
payment on the new Mercedes.

Hooray, Hooray, look at me everybody, I got a Merkadese in my drive
(I'll buy the gas next payday )

And of course, washing and waxing the new car fulfils my
self-fulfillment needs so there you have it. 100% in accordance with
the Maslow rules :-)


WTF? We're talking about bikes here and not $70K luxury cars. Knock yourself out: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...road-bikes.htm $2,500 USD with discs and Di2.

That's not sock drawer or penny jar money, but its hardly conspicuous consumption. And I'm not saying that you have to buy that bike. It's just offered as an example of a Di2 bike with discs that is relatively cheap. Relatively. Again, you may think $2,500 USD is too much for any bike. I don't..

-- Jay Beattie.


I suggest that $2,500 is expensive or cheap depending largely on what
one's income is. To a guy making $10/hour, which is, or was the
minimum rate in California, it is 250 hours , or 31 days of work. To a
guy charging ( what is it now? ) $10 a minute to talk on the telephone
it is 250 minutes, or a half a day's "work".
--
cheers,

John B.


Or at $3.00 per transit trip = $6.00 per day that $2,500,00 divided by $6..00 is 418 round trips or less than two years if the person uses the bicycle to commute to work with like I did with my Miele Equipe Pro Coumbus SL frameset Dura Ace equipped bicycle.

Cheers
  #124  
Old December 5th 19, 04:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Dropper posts for every bike?

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 19:20:57 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 22:05:49 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 18:06:15 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 5:23:58 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 00:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What
was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you
quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe
in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend
on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more
expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for
them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars
to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou


+1

There aren’t enough people around who understand Maslow’s hierarchy of
needs and how that applies to disposable income.

The interpretation of "disposable income" appears to be, "The money
you have left over from your salary after you've paid federal, state,
and local taxes".
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-d...income-4156858
I had always assumed that it meant after taxes, food and lodging, and
perhaps children's essentials, if any.

But to live in accord with Maslow one must only buy that bottle of
peanut butter, a loaf of Wonder Bread and a padlock for the door(s)
and quit beating your wife. The rest of the money can go for the down
payment on the new Mercedes.

Hooray, Hooray, look at me everybody, I got a Merkadese in my drive
(I'll buy the gas next payday )

And of course, washing and waxing the new car fulfils my
self-fulfillment needs so there you have it. 100% in accordance with
the Maslow rules :-)

WTF? We're talking about bikes here and not $70K luxury cars. Knock yourself out: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...road-bikes.htm $2,500 USD with discs and Di2.

That's not sock drawer or penny jar money, but its hardly conspicuous consumption. And I'm not saying that you have to buy that bike. It's just offered as an example of a Di2 bike with discs that is relatively cheap. Relatively. Again, you may think $2,500 USD is too much for any bike. I don't.

-- Jay Beattie.


I suggest that $2,500 is expensive or cheap depending largely on what
one's income is. To a guy making $10/hour, which is, or was the
minimum rate in California, it is 250 hours , or 31 days of work. To a
guy charging ( what is it now? ) $10 a minute to talk on the telephone
it is 250 minutes, or a half a day's "work".
--
cheers,

John B.


Or at $3.00 per transit trip = $6.00 per day that $2,500,00 divided by $6.00 is 418 round trips or less than two years if the person uses the bicycle to commute to work with like I did with my Miele Equipe Pro Coumbus SL frameset Dura Ace equipped bicycle.

Cheers


You forgot to include the depreciation, and maintenance of your
"Miele Equipe Pro Coumbus SL frameset Dura Ace equipped bicycle" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #125  
Old December 5th 19, 06:31 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Dropper posts for every bike?

On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 22:53:43 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 19:20:57 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 22:05:49 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 18:06:15 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 5:23:58 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 00:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group.. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What
was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you
quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe
in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend
on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more
expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for
them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars
to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou


+1

There aren’t enough people around who understand Maslow’s hierarchy of
needs and how that applies to disposable income.

The interpretation of "disposable income" appears to be, "The money
you have left over from your salary after you've paid federal, state,
and local taxes".
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-d...income-4156858
I had always assumed that it meant after taxes, food and lodging, and
perhaps children's essentials, if any.

But to live in accord with Maslow one must only buy that bottle of
peanut butter, a loaf of Wonder Bread and a padlock for the door(s)
and quit beating your wife. The rest of the money can go for the down
payment on the new Mercedes.

Hooray, Hooray, look at me everybody, I got a Merkadese in my drive
(I'll buy the gas next payday )

And of course, washing and waxing the new car fulfils my
self-fulfillment needs so there you have it. 100% in accordance with
the Maslow rules :-)

WTF? We're talking about bikes here and not $70K luxury cars. Knock yourself out: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...road-bikes.htm $2,500 USD with discs and Di2.

That's not sock drawer or penny jar money, but its hardly conspicuous consumption. And I'm not saying that you have to buy that bike. It's just offered as an example of a Di2 bike with discs that is relatively cheap. Relatively. Again, you may think $2,500 USD is too much for any bike. I don't.

-- Jay Beattie.

I suggest that $2,500 is expensive or cheap depending largely on what
one's income is. To a guy making $10/hour, which is, or was the
minimum rate in California, it is 250 hours , or 31 days of work. To a
guy charging ( what is it now? ) $10 a minute to talk on the telephone
it is 250 minutes, or a half a day's "work".
--
cheers,

John B.


Or at $3.00 per transit trip = $6.00 per day that $2,500,00 divided by $6.00 is 418 round trips or less than two years if the person uses the bicycle to commute to work with like I did with my Miele Equipe Pro Coumbus SL frameset Dura Ace equipped bicycle.

Cheers


You forgot to include the depreciation, and maintenance of your
"Miele Equipe Pro Coumbus SL frameset Dura Ace equipped bicycle" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


I see the smiley. However after 418 round trips the bicycle was totally paid for and any trips made after that were free. Also, those 418 earlier trips were just to and from work and did not take into account other trips that otherwise would have required public transit.

Cheers
  #126  
Old December 5th 19, 07:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default Dropper posts for every bike?

John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 00:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I canÂ’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesnÂ’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What
was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you
quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe
in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend
on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more
expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for
them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars
to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou


+1


There arenÂ’t enough people around who understand MaslowÂ’s hierarchy of
needs and how that applies to disposable income.


The interpretation of "disposable income" appears to be, "The money
you have left over from your salary after you've paid federal, state,
and local taxes".
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-d...income-4156858
I had always assumed that it meant after taxes, food and lodging, and
perhaps children's essentials, if any.

But to live in accord with Maslow one must only buy that bottle of
peanut butter, a loaf of Wonder Bread and a padlock for the door(s)
and quit beating your wife. The rest of the money can go for the down
payment on the new Mercedes.

Hooray, Hooray, look at me everybody, I got a Merkadese in my drive
(I'll buy the gas next payday )

And of course, washing and waxing the new car fulfils my
self-fulfillment needs so there you have it. 100% in accordance with
the Maslow rules :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



Come on, John. Don’t be a smarty pants. If I’ve got a roof over my head and
a million in the bank, I may choose other means to achieve fulfillment than
if I have a roof over my head and $2 in my pocket. The main point that
people are dancing around here is whether they feel that a certain
technology is worth paying list price for. I’m currently running a 3x9 STI
setup with canti brakes, simply because I do not feel that I will get
adequate incremental satisfaction per dollar by going with disks and Di2.
However, if there was another zero on all of my bank balances, I might give
it a try. What makes Lou happy is overkill for Frank. Chalo and Jay are on
different paths to enlightenment, but it doesn’t mean that their personal
choices don’t get them where they wanna go. Now, I personally believe that
there is excessive marketing going on and that a lot of new stuff is being
sold simply because “we can’t sell you something that you already own”. I
also think that at the bleeding edge, the incremental cost of innovation is
pretty darn high, but without early adopters, there’s nobody subsidizing
the more affordable mass market products.

  #127  
Old December 5th 19, 07:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Dropper posts for every bike?

On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:31:19 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 22:53:43 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 19:20:57 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 22:05:49 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 18:06:15 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 5:23:58 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 00:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What
was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you
quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe
in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend
on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more
expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for
them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars
to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou


+1

There aren’t enough people around who understand Maslow’s hierarchy of
needs and how that applies to disposable income.

The interpretation of "disposable income" appears to be, "The money
you have left over from your salary after you've paid federal, state,
and local taxes".
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-d...income-4156858
I had always assumed that it meant after taxes, food and lodging, and
perhaps children's essentials, if any.

But to live in accord with Maslow one must only buy that bottle of
peanut butter, a loaf of Wonder Bread and a padlock for the door(s)
and quit beating your wife. The rest of the money can go for the down
payment on the new Mercedes.

Hooray, Hooray, look at me everybody, I got a Merkadese in my drive
(I'll buy the gas next payday )

And of course, washing and waxing the new car fulfils my
self-fulfillment needs so there you have it. 100% in accordance with
the Maslow rules :-)

WTF? We're talking about bikes here and not $70K luxury cars. Knock yourself out: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...road-bikes.htm $2,500 USD with discs and Di2.

That's not sock drawer or penny jar money, but its hardly conspicuous consumption. And I'm not saying that you have to buy that bike. It's just offered as an example of a Di2 bike with discs that is relatively cheap. Relatively. Again, you may think $2,500 USD is too much for any bike. I don't.

-- Jay Beattie.

I suggest that $2,500 is expensive or cheap depending largely on what
one's income is. To a guy making $10/hour, which is, or was the
minimum rate in California, it is 250 hours , or 31 days of work. To a
guy charging ( what is it now? ) $10 a minute to talk on the telephone
it is 250 minutes, or a half a day's "work".
--
cheers,

John B.

Or at $3.00 per transit trip = $6.00 per day that $2,500,00 divided by $6.00 is 418 round trips or less than two years if the person uses the bicycle to commute to work with like I did with my Miele Equipe Pro Coumbus SL frameset Dura Ace equipped bicycle.

Cheers


You forgot to include the depreciation, and maintenance of your
"Miele Equipe Pro Coumbus SL frameset Dura Ace equipped bicycle" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


I see the smiley. However after 418 round trips the bicycle was totally paid for and any trips made after that were free. Also, those 418 earlier trips were just to and from work and did not take into account other trips that otherwise would have required public transit.

Cheers


(1) you ride an existing bicycle for two years and thus save the bus
fare (or whatever). If you do this and compare costs then you must
take into consideration wear and tear on that bicycle and logically it
is getting older and older and thus worth less money, thus the
depreciation and maintenance.

Or (2) you borrow money and buy the $2,500 bicycle and reckon that you
have broken even after two years as you aren't paying bus fees. In
which case you either have to calculate the interest charges that you
will have to pay to borrow the money or discount any additional money
you might have made had you invested the money.

And yes, you can ignore interest, depreciation and maintenance costs
as they are "only a little money" but to paraphrase Everett Dirksen. a
little here and a little there and pretty soon you are talking real
money :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #128  
Old December 5th 19, 07:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default Dropper posts for every bike?

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 06:06:37 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 00:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can?t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn?t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What
was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you
quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe
in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend
on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more
expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for
them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars
to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou


+1

There aren?t enough people around who understand Maslow?s hierarchy of
needs and how that applies to disposable income.


The interpretation of "disposable income" appears to be, "The money
you have left over from your salary after you've paid federal, state,
and local taxes".
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-d...income-4156858
I had always assumed that it meant after taxes, food and lodging, and
perhaps children's essentials, if any.

But to live in accord with Maslow one must only buy that bottle of
peanut butter, a loaf of Wonder Bread and a padlock for the door(s)
and quit beating your wife. The rest of the money can go for the down
payment on the new Mercedes.

Hooray, Hooray, look at me everybody, I got a Merkadese in my drive
(I'll buy the gas next payday )

And of course, washing and waxing the new car fulfils my
self-fulfillment needs so there you have it. 100% in accordance with
the Maslow rules :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



Come on, John. Don’t be a smarty pants. If I’ve got a roof over my head and
a million in the bank, I may choose other means to achieve fulfillment than
if I have a roof over my head and $2 in my pocket. The main point that
people are dancing around here is whether they feel that a certain
technology is worth paying list price for. I’m currently running a 3x9 STI
setup with canti brakes, simply because I do not feel that I will get
adequate incremental satisfaction per dollar by going with disks and Di2.
However, if there was another zero on all of my bank balances, I might give
it a try. What makes Lou happy is overkill for Frank. Chalo and Jay are on
different paths to enlightenment, but it doesn’t mean that their personal
choices don’t get them where they wanna go. Now, I personally believe that
there is excessive marketing going on and that a lot of new stuff is being
sold simply because “we can’t sell you something that you already own”. I
also think that at the bleeding edge, the incremental cost of innovation is
pretty darn high, but without early adopters, there’s nobody subsidizing
the more affordable mass market products.


Of course you are correct there really are "different strokes for
different folks".

I was replying to the post, "There aren?t enough people around who
understand Maslow?s hierarchy of needs and how that applies to
disposable income" and attempting to point out that while they are
correct, at least in theory, that actually are meaningless in
practice, or perhaps it is more accurate to say that people's
perception of Needs, Love and Belonging, etc., differ so greatly that
what is satisfactory to one person is grossly inadequate to another.
Or perhaps is wildly excessive to others, if you swing the other way.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #129  
Old December 5th 19, 11:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Dropper posts for every bike?

On 12/4/2019 7:25 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

BTW, I was at the racks early yesterday and there were only seven bikes in my little rack segment -- six with discs, and all the bikes were totally mid-fi and relatively inexpensive. In the wet PNW, discs are clearly dominating. Yes, I know -- it is all part of some giant conspiracy by Big Disc to subjugate the masses with disc brakes. O.K., blame me. I bought them years ago and gave strength to our oppressing disc overlords.


Anyone not using disc brakes is standing in the way of human progress.

  #130  
Old December 5th 19, 11:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Dropper posts for every bike?

On Thursday, 5 December 2019 01:21:36 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 21:31:19 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 22:53:43 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 19:20:57 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 December 2019 22:05:49 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 18:06:15 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 5:23:58 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 00:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 11:11:50 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 23:13:14 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 12:44:11 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 14:03:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 3, 2019 at 6:14:34 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/3/2019 5:54 AM, Duane wrote:


I used DT friction shifters for years. I can’t imagine anyone preferring
them over brifters but whatever floats their boat.

Like Eddie Merckx said (paraphrasing) it doesn’t matter how long or short
you ride. Or how fast or slow. Just ride. I would also add, and STFU
criticizing other riders preferences.

Oh, good grief!

As I've said dozens of times: This is a _discussion_ group. We discuss
things. If you're so insecure that you can't tolerate any disagreement
with your choices, why would you enter a discussion about your choices?

Furthermore, if you pretend instead to defend _others'_ free choices,
perhaps you should stop sniping at only those who differ from you.

Contrary to certain posters' whining, I don't say "You shouldn't use
[whatever] equipment." But I do frequently point out that for much
equipment, the near-magical claims are exaggerated, or irrelevant to
most people's riding.

And I think I have a tendency to quantify things. Quantification
shouldn't be sneered at in a "tech" group.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Wow, wow. Frank you started this thread. Read your first post. What
was your intention when you wrote
'If they do, it won't be long before anyone who uses an ordinary seatpost
will be scorned as a luddite. '? Trying to be funny? What did you
quantify? In my world it is a silly insinuation.

Lou

I won't comment on Franks intent but read the resulting answers. It
appears that without, at the minimum, STI brake-shifters it is nearly
impossible to enjoy riding a bicycle these days.

No one said that only that it makes a ride more pleasant or more safe
in some situation (of road on slippery, bumpy and twisting single track for instance)



Has cycling been reduced to a dollars and cents level where riding a
$4,000 bicycle (as one poster has frequently mentioned) results in a
more enjoyable ride?

For some it does for some it doesn't. Lets talk about what people spend
on cars, clothes, houses, gardens etc.

Yes, of course. After all buying a big car certainly shows the world
just how big a man you are.... even though you paid a dollar down and
a dollar a week for the rest of your life. And of course, the neighbor
who bought that little imported car for cash is demonstrating just how
insignificant he is.

--
cheers,

John B.

If that what comes to your mind first when you meet people that have a more
expensive/bigger house, car or whatever I pity you. Try to be happy for
them it makes you a nicer person. A mercedes/audi are really nice cars
to drive, a nice garden is really pretty to look at.

Lou


+1

There aren’t enough people around who understand Maslow’s hierarchy of
needs and how that applies to disposable income.

The interpretation of "disposable income" appears to be, "The money
you have left over from your salary after you've paid federal, state,
and local taxes".
https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-d...income-4156858
I had always assumed that it meant after taxes, food and lodging, and
perhaps children's essentials, if any.

But to live in accord with Maslow one must only buy that bottle of
peanut butter, a loaf of Wonder Bread and a padlock for the door(s)
and quit beating your wife. The rest of the money can go for the down
payment on the new Mercedes.

Hooray, Hooray, look at me everybody, I got a Merkadese in my drive
(I'll buy the gas next payday )

And of course, washing and waxing the new car fulfils my
self-fulfillment needs so there you have it. 100% in accordance with
the Maslow rules :-)

WTF? We're talking about bikes here and not $70K luxury cars. Knock yourself out: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...road-bikes.htm $2,500 USD with discs and Di2.

That's not sock drawer or penny jar money, but its hardly conspicuous consumption. And I'm not saying that you have to buy that bike. It's just offered as an example of a Di2 bike with discs that is relatively cheap. Relatively. Again, you may think $2,500 USD is too much for any bike. I don't.

-- Jay Beattie.

I suggest that $2,500 is expensive or cheap depending largely on what
one's income is. To a guy making $10/hour, which is, or was the
minimum rate in California, it is 250 hours , or 31 days of work. To a
guy charging ( what is it now? ) $10 a minute to talk on the telephone
it is 250 minutes, or a half a day's "work".
--
cheers,

John B.

Or at $3.00 per transit trip = $6.00 per day that $2,500,00 divided by $6.00 is 418 round trips or less than two years if the person uses the bicycle to commute to work with like I did with my Miele Equipe Pro Coumbus SL frameset Dura Ace equipped bicycle.

Cheers

You forgot to include the depreciation, and maintenance of your
"Miele Equipe Pro Coumbus SL frameset Dura Ace equipped bicycle" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


I see the smiley. However after 418 round trips the bicycle was totally paid for and any trips made after that were free. Also, those 418 earlier trips were just to and from work and did not take into account other trips that otherwise would have required public transit.

Cheers


(1) you ride an existing bicycle for two years and thus save the bus
fare (or whatever). If you do this and compare costs then you must
take into consideration wear and tear on that bicycle and logically it
is getting older and older and thus worth less money, thus the
depreciation and maintenance.

Or (2) you borrow money and buy the $2,500 bicycle and reckon that you
have broken even after two years as you aren't paying bus fees. In
which case you either have to calculate the interest charges that you
will have to pay to borrow the money or discount any additional money
you might have made had you invested the money.

And yes, you can ignore interest, depreciation and maintenance costs
as they are "only a little money" but to paraphrase Everett Dirksen. a
little here and a little there and pretty soon you are talking real
money :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


I think you're arguing purely for the sake of arguing.

Firstly, the bicycle was paid for in cash up front. Therefore there were no interest payments.

Secondly, I COULD IGNORE depreciation since I had no intention of selling the bicycle after the first two years of use. Also, in those first two years I had ZERO maintenance costs.

Thirdly, the more trips I took with that bicycle that otherwise would have been takeen via transit the more money I saved once the 418 round trips were made.

And that's not counting the trips I took to other towns and cities where inter-city transit didn't go. I went to a lot of places I would not have been able to go to if I didn't have that reliable bicycle.

YMMV and usually does.

Cheers
 




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