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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?
Meanwhile, Jay, what have you found out about Electra Amsterdam sizes
and stock availability? Andre Jute Groundwork On Feb 11, 11:49*pm, "Jay" wrote: "Andre Jute" wrote in message ... Here's some descriptive comparisons from my use of similar bikes: I have an AXA generator on my Gazelle Toulouse, with the disc brake. The Toulouse was same as the Chamonix but with the disc/sidewall generator replacing the Chamonix's hub dynamo/rollerbrake combo. Perhaps Gazelle did it to keep the weight low, or perhaps to keep the Toulouse price the same as the Chamonix. Electra may have similarly confused motives with the Amsterdam. The AXA sidewall generator on my Gazelle Toulouse does not make a weaker light than the hub dynamo on my Trek L700 Navigator. *You can use either light as an only light to ride by on lit streets streets; they also help you be seen. Neither light is strong enough to use as an only light on strange unlit roads; they will just about do on familiar unlit roads. On both the sidewall generator and the hub dynamo you have very substantial part of their available light already at only 6 or 7 mph; however, the light dies altogether when you stop (you can get socalled standlights; the only useful ones have capacitors and light up the main light at full power). I use 5W flood and 10W spot battery lights in addition to the generator/dynamo lights. I would strongly suggest that you transfer whatever battery lights you have on your current bike, or buy good battery lights for your new bike. The choice between the sidewall generator/hub dynamo therefore has to be made on another consideration. It will probably cost 100-150 bucks to get a front wheel with a dynamo hub and rollerbrake built in to match the style and rear wheel of an Amsterdam. The point of a hub dynamo light is that it is always there, that it gets you home when your batteries suddenly clock out, that it adds to your visibility. The generator light ditto. But the hub dynamo has the advantage that it works under all conditions. The question is, if you will have hi-watt battery lights anyway, will the conditions in which you ride (slush? ice?) so often make the sidewall generator unusable as to justify spending extra money? (I have no experience of cycling in such conditions, so I have no advice.) A word about the lights that will come on your Amsterdam: The Basta at the front is a probably a good light; to improve on it significantly you will have to have the hub dynamo wheel, and buy BUMM lights, which are pricey, and you will still need hi-watt battery lights because 2.4 or 3W lights, even the BUMMs, just aren't good enough for really adverse circumstances. The rear light is probably either a Basta or a Spanninga. These are good lights in their Dutch environment, where a car driver who hits a cyclist is automatically held to be in the wrong unless there are mitigating circumstances, but in Chicago (or anywhere outside the Benelux) they are not bright and obvious enough. On my Trek I have the best of that lot, the Spaninga Ultra. It's greatest feature is that after a 50 hours it is almost as brightly visible as in the first hour, and it has space for a pair of spare batteries inside. (The Toulouse has a custom Gazelle light, made for them by Basta; it too is automatic, it too is very economical, it too is not bright enough by itself to make me feel secure.) I kept the Spanninga rear light on the Trek because it is very lightweight and very economical and because it switches itself on at dusk, but I promply backed it up with a Cateye LD-1100 which is totally illegal in the Benelux and Germany... **** So, in summary, Dutch and German sidewall generator or hub dynamo front lights, and battery rear lights (or dynamo rear lights for that matter) are good enough for backup and an added layer of visibility. Both should be viewed as permanent emergency installations and supplemented with hi-watt battery lights at the front and a flashing LED (the Cateye LD1100 is the best unless you want to lash out for a Dinotte rear light) at the back. Thus, whether you should accept the sidewall generator or spend extra on a hub dynamo/rollerbrake/wheel depends on your view of how many days in the year riding conditions will make the sidewall generator work unacceptably and thereby compromise a secondary system. HTH. Andre Jute If you aren't paranoid, why are you a cyclist? It sounds like I will just go with the Electra stock AXA sidewall generator on this bike. I will see how it goes. I like DiNotte lights, and their after-sale support. So I might buy another set for this new bike, if necessary. I will still be riding my folder, but only in good weather. So those lights are going to stay on the folder. J. |
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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?
"Martin Borsje" wrote in message ... AXA is a very common dynamo in the Netherlands, as I speak. If you don't ride too many times in snowy conditions it is a good dynamo. If you do ride often in snowy conditions or like the luxury of a hub gen, please do buy one. I fully concur with the recommendations on dynamo powered LED lighting, front and rear. Batteries always seem to be empty just when you need them most or when a police officer is nearby.... Martin Netherlands (190 km from Amsterdam) I agree; I think Andre's suggestion of redundant lighting systems is a good idea. Good lights are a safety issue, and much cheaper than a hospital bill. J. |
#23
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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?
"Andre Jute" wrote in message ... Meanwhile, Jay, what have you found out about Electra Amsterdam sizes and stock availability? Andre Jute Groundwork I will probably call Rapid Transit Cycle in Chicago tomorrow, and place the order. I see RTC mentions Electra on their home page http://www.rapidtransitcycles.com/ . RTC's web page is mostly dead. They seem to do business strictly by phone or in person. J. |
#24
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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?
"Jay" wrote in message
. .. I think Andre's suggestion of redundant lighting systems is a good idea. Good lights are a safety issue, and much cheaper than a hospital bill. You don't actually need redundant systems, just one which works. A hub dynamo-based one will be the most reliable both in terms of mechanical/electrical reliability, and in terms of human reliability - no batteries to remember to charge, lights are permanently attached to the bike so no forgetting to put them on. Get a modern LED front lamp for it (you can guess which one I'm suggesting), and you'll not have to worry about bulbs blowing (I'm assuming LEDs for the back - been years since I've used a filament there), and anybody who's seen the amount of light they put out, even in standlight mode, would realise even the most paranoid person doesn't need a battery backup. cheers, clive |
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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?
Andre Jute wrote:
[...] It is a matter of opinion, Clive. I see three purposes for lighting: being seen, seeing, earning respect that makes cars give you space. Dynamo lights are marginal to adequate for the first two and useless for the third. So I back them up with hi-watt battery lights and make sure.[...] I like the lights Boeing uses on the landing gear. My ideal headlight for a bicycle would be a 55W low/80W high beam halogen powered by a fuel cell. -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia The weather is here, wish you were beautiful |
#26
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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?
On Feb 11, 7:16 pm, "Jay" wrote:
I think Andre's suggestion of redundant lighting systems is a good idea. Good lights are a safety issue, and much cheaper than a hospital bill. In general, redundancy of night lighting is good. But the appropriate degree of redundancy is roughly proportional to the unreliability of the system. For a hub dynamo, there are very few likely points of failure, no matter what the riding conditions. You may burn out a bulb. Snagging and breaking a wire or connection is a remote possibility, negligible if you've routed the wires well. So carry a spare bulb. If you like, you can carry a tiny coin-sized LED light to illuminate the bulb- changing operation. For a bottle dynamo, you can add a tiny chance of the unit getting knocked out of alignment - but that's easy to adequately fix by just bending it back. You can add a greater chance of it slipping in slushy winter, deep mud, or perhaps rain. If you're able to avoid those circumstances, just carry a spare bulb. For anything battery powered, you've got to add the possibility of not having the light with you because you thought you wouldn't need it; or not having enough charge in the battery; or having the light removed by a thief; or having the mounting system partially fail and refuse to aim the light properly; or having the mounting system completely fail and throw the unit on the street. I've either experienced or seen all those failures, and more, which is why I rely on my generator lights. Regarding redundancy, I do have two taillights, one generator powered and one battery powered. I also have reflectors. And when I lead night rides, I carry a couple extra headlights for redundancy. But they're for the folks who bring battery lights, not for me. I've loaned them out many times. - Frank Krygowski |
#27
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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?
Jay wrote:
I was mainly wondering if, with my riding conditions, this friction-drive dynamo would be a bad choice. Sounds like most people think it will be OK. If Electa offered a hub dynamo as an option, I would go with it. I think much of the objection to friction drive dynamos stems from the ease with which they become misaligned, which increases drive drag to a noticeable degree. I have used both a Union and a Soubitez roller unit (neither in their intended bottom-bracket location) and both worked fine. One Union failed after about a year, and it was simple to replace. Lately I've been riding a Breezer Uptown 8 with a Shimano hub generator and B&M Lumotec lighting system. Very nice, but heavy and expensive. If the hub dynamo ever fails, it's a wheel swap or a long downtime. If you take care of generator alignment and wiring integrity, friction drive will do just fine. bob prohaska |
#28
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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:25:09 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
wrote: On Feb 11, 3:52*pm, Jasper Janssen wrote: On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:28:20 -0600, "Jay" wrote: My only remaining concern is the headlight system, which uses an AXA generator. Would I be well advised to use a hub dynamo instead? Are there any advantages to the AXA generator? Why in the world is Electra going this route? I would think, since they seem to love simple minimalist design, they would have chosen a hub dynamo for the headlight power. BEcause the Axa HR is a traditional Dutch Bike design and the hub dynamos aren't, I actually suspect. Nah, hub dynamos have been used on Dutch bikes of the most traditional design for a good many years now; they have become standard, expected by consumers. Check out the Gazelle site www.gazelle.nl and count the number of bikes left with rim dynamos. The Traditional-Dutch-Bike still doesn't have them, and it's only in the last 3-4 years that they're getting to be standard on higher end, new models, though. Mainly the 30E Shimano model that made it feasible, since that's only a very little up (retail price) from an Axa HR + front hub. *And* you don't have to have frames with a sidewall dynamo tab welded on. Jasper |
#29
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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?
On Feb 14, 12:54*pm, Jasper Janssen wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:25:09 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute wrote: On Feb 11, 3:52*pm, Jasper Janssen wrote: On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:28:20 -0600, "Jay" wrote: My only remaining concern is the headlight system, which uses an AXA generator. Would I be well advised to use a hub dynamo instead? Are there any advantages to the AXA generator? Why in the world is Electra going this route? I would think, since they seem to love simple minimalist design, they would have chosen a hub dynamo for the headlight power. BEcause the Axa HR is a traditional Dutch Bike design and the hub dynamos aren't, I actually suspect. Nah, hub dynamos have been used on Dutch bikes of the most traditional design for a good many years now; they have become standard, expected by consumers. Check out the Gazelle sitewww.gazelle.nland count the number of bikes left with rim dynamos. The Traditional-Dutch-Bike still doesn't have them, and it's only in the last 3-4 years that they're getting to be standard on higher end, new models, though. Mainly the 30E Shimano model that made it feasible, since that's only a very little up (retail price) from an Axa HR + front hub. *And* you don't have to have frames with a sidewall dynamo tab welded on. Jasper Perhaps hub dynamos have been coming in for more than just 3-4 years; when I started looking at Dutch city bikes in the winter of 2003, hub dynamos seemed to be the accepted standard already, though admittedly I looked only at the top class of bikes. In particular, it seemed very odd that the Gazelle Toulouse (which I bought for its disc brake -- I wasn't yet a convert to roller brakes) was the only one of the top Gazelle bikes with a sidewall generator; I thought it was either a weight-saving device (ludicrous, considering that a Gazelle bike starts hefty and is then trimmed up luxuriously without any reference to weight) or to match the price of the all-rollerbrake companion Chamonix, that is a simple marketing decision rather than a technical one. The odd thing about those early Shimano hub dynamos that took the OEM market by storm is that they made more drag when they were switched off than when switched on (go little Fogel, gofer Google, there's a comparative study on the net, bring us the URL). When the light was switched on it was nearly as good as the SON hub dynamo. (The difference in drag was the equivalent about a foot rise in a mile, IIRC.) Those early models are still available built into wheels very cheaply on ebay.de and may well be worth buying if you have LED lights that can be left on permanently. But for general purposes, and for the big guys that seem to abound on RBT (or is it just Chalo's outsize peronality that makes it seem so?) I think the newer Shimano models, which are as good as the SON, might be more versatile (eg in the rollerbrakes that can be used) and not all that much more expensive; theoretically, with better seals, they will also last longer, but that's theoretical, because no one has yet complained that the first widely used Shimano hub dynamoes were poorly sealed -- the big practical difference is that the newer ones have lower drag. Andre Jute Illuminator of unconsidered trifles |
#30
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Electra Amsterdam Royal8 - dynamo front hub?
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
... Perhaps hub dynamos have been coming in for more than just 3-4 years; Fitted my first one in 1997, so over 10 years ago. |
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