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#33
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"Praecipium munus annalium reor, ne virtutes sileantur, utque pravis
dictis, factisque ex posteritate et infamia metus sit." - Tacitus On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:02:27 GMT, Werehatrack wrote: It's not apparent from the current map or the current state of the environs, of course, but the Spanish explorers named it for the characterisitcs they found present in the 1500s, when the only local people were the Tequesta. On the few surviving Spanish maps, it's reportedly "Boca de Ratones", which was later shortened to the current form. Idiomatically, I'm told that they may have been inferring that this was an inlet whose surrounding area was infested with mice rather than shaped like a mouse's mouth, though, which would fit the lack of real physical resemblance. There is no record of what name the natives may have had for the area. Exploration records from that era are scant at best in any event, and the Tequesta left no written record at all. Who can blame them for not keeping memoranda when Mark Hickey was around? http://www.ci.boca-raton.fl.us/econ/history.cfm http://floridaindianmounds.com/Tequesta.htm ------------------------------- John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Since 1983 Our catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996. http://www.businesscycles.com |
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On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:59:13 -0400, John Dacey
wrote: "Praecipium munus annalium reor, ne virtutes sileantur, utque pravis dictis, factisque ex posteritate et infamia metus sit." - Tacitus On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:02:27 GMT, Werehatrack wrote: It's not apparent from the current map or the current state of the environs, of course, but the Spanish explorers named it for the characterisitcs they found present in the 1500s, when the only local people were the Tequesta. On the few surviving Spanish maps, it's reportedly "Boca de Ratones", which was later shortened to the current form. Idiomatically, I'm told that they may have been inferring that this was an inlet whose surrounding area was infested with mice rather than shaped like a mouse's mouth, though, which would fit the lack of real physical resemblance. There is no record of what name the natives may have had for the area. Exploration records from that era are scant at best in any event, and the Tequesta left no written record at all. Who can blame them for not keeping memoranda when Mark Hickey was around? http://www.ci.boca-raton.fl.us/econ/history.cfm http://floridaindianmounds.com/Tequesta.htm ------------------------------- John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Since 1983 Our catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996. http://www.businesscycles.com Dear John and Werehatrack, Since written records require writing, it's a bit redundant to say that a pre-Columbian North American Indian tribe left no written records. For anything beyond pictographs, you have to go south. Carl Fogel |
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"Non opus est verbis, credite rebus." - Ovid
On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:04:03 -0600, "Indiana" Fogel wrote: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:59:13 -0400, John Dacey wrote: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:02:27 GMT, Werehatrack wrote: It's not apparent from the current map or the current state of the environs, of course, but the Spanish explorers named it for the characterisitcs they found present in the 1500s, when the only local people were the Tequesta. snip There is no record of what name the natives may have had for the area. Exploration records from that era are scant at best in any event, and the Tequesta left no written record at all. Who can blame them for not keeping memoranda when Mark Hickey was around? http://www.ci.boca-raton.fl.us/econ/history.cfm http://floridaindianmounds.com/Tequesta.htm Dear John and Werehatrack, Since written records require writing, it's a bit redundant to say that a pre-Columbian North American Indian tribe left no written records. For anything beyond pictographs, you have to go south. Carl Fogel I appreciate your interest in redacting a redundancy. In the same spirit however, I encourage you to similarly reconsider your description of a tribe's practices in the 1500s and beyond as "pre-Columbian." In fourteen ninety-two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. . . ^^^^^^^ As for pictographs, they are still the principal method of communication among primitives in Florida: http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/t...shatbooker.jpg ------------------------------- John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Since 1983 Our catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996. http://www.businesscycles.com |
#36
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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:24:10 -0400, John Dacey
wrote: "Non opus est verbis, credite rebus." - Ovid On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:04:03 -0600, "Indiana" Fogel wrote: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:59:13 -0400, John Dacey wrote: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:02:27 GMT, Werehatrack wrote: It's not apparent from the current map or the current state of the environs, of course, but the Spanish explorers named it for the characterisitcs they found present in the 1500s, when the only local people were the Tequesta. snip There is no record of what name the natives may have had for the area. Exploration records from that era are scant at best in any event, and the Tequesta left no written record at all. Who can blame them for not keeping memoranda when Mark Hickey was around? http://www.ci.boca-raton.fl.us/econ/history.cfm http://floridaindianmounds.com/Tequesta.htm Dear John and Werehatrack, Since written records require writing, it's a bit redundant to say that a pre-Columbian North American Indian tribe left no written records. For anything beyond pictographs, you have to go south. Carl Fogel I appreciate your interest in redacting a redundancy. In the same spirit however, I encourage you to similarly reconsider your description of a tribe's practices in the 1500s and beyond as "pre-Columbian." In fourteen ninety-two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. . . ^^^^^^^ As for pictographs, they are still the principal method of communication among primitives in Florida: http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/t...shatbooker.jpg ------------------------------- John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Since 1983 Our catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996. http://www.businesscycles.com Dear John, Can you point me to any pre-1600 records written by North American Indian tribes? Curiously, Carl Fogel |
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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 12:20:36 -0600, wrote:
On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:24:10 -0400, John Dacey wrote: Since written records require writing, it's a bit redundant to say that a pre-Columbian North American Indian tribe left no written records. For anything beyond pictographs, you have to go south. I encourage you to similarly reconsider your description of a tribe's practices in the 1500s and beyond as "pre-Columbian." In fourteen ninety-two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. . . Dear John, Can you point me to any pre-1600 records written by North American Indian tribes? Curiously, Carl Fogel I'm surprised you're not familiar with "Hiawatha's Shopping List" which was shamelessly ripped off by Longfellow some centuries later as "The Song of Hiawatha". Regrettably, the veracity of this seminal poem by an Algonquin from the 1500s has been impeached by Republicans for containing certain anachronisms in language and font type. Decide for yourself: ******************************************** Hiawatha's Shopping List Honey, on your way home to me, Pass the mall at Gitchigumee; Don't forget to trade some pelts for A jug or two of Schlitz malt liquor. See the Shaman for some leeches; Go to Zabar's for fresh peaches. I'd love to have a warm new blanket And beads to make a sexy anklet. For cooking I could use new pottery And get five tix for Friday's Lottery. Deerskin's s'posed to have my new bra. Be home by six or else - Minn'haha ******************************************** Can you point me to any North American Indians who, after 1500, are properly described as PRE-Columbian? ------------------------------- John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida http://www.businesscycles.com Since 1983 Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996 ------------------------------- |
#38
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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:35:03 -0400, John Dacey
wrote: On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 12:20:36 -0600, wrote: On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:24:10 -0400, John Dacey wrote: Since written records require writing, it's a bit redundant to say that a pre-Columbian North American Indian tribe left no written records. For anything beyond pictographs, you have to go south. I encourage you to similarly reconsider your description of a tribe's practices in the 1500s and beyond as "pre-Columbian." In fourteen ninety-two, Columbus sailed the ocean blue. . . Dear John, Can you point me to any pre-1600 records written by North American Indian tribes? Curiously, Carl Fogel I'm surprised you're not familiar with "Hiawatha's Shopping List" which was shamelessly ripped off by Longfellow some centuries later as "The Song of Hiawatha". Regrettably, the veracity of this seminal poem by an Algonquin from the 1500s has been impeached by Republicans for containing certain anachronisms in language and font type. Decide for yourself: ******************************************** Hiawatha's Shopping List Honey, on your way home to me, Pass the mall at Gitchigumee; Don't forget to trade some pelts for A jug or two of Schlitz malt liquor. See the Shaman for some leeches; Go to Zabar's for fresh peaches. I'd love to have a warm new blanket And beads to make a sexy anklet. For cooking I could use new pottery And get five tix for Friday's Lottery. Deerskin's s'posed to have my new bra. Be home by six or else - Minn'haha ******************************************** Can you point me to any North American Indians who, after 1500, are properly described as PRE-Columbian? ------------------------------- John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida http://www.businesscycles.com Since 1983 Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996 ------------------------------- Dear John, Okay, any written records before 1700? Carl Fogel |
#39
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On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:53:46 -0600, wrote:
Can you point me to any pre-1600 records written by North American Indian tribes? Curiously, Carl Fogel I'm surprised you're not familiar with "Hiawatha's Shopping List" which was shamelessly ripped off by Longfellow some centuries later as "The Song of Hiawatha". Regrettably, the veracity of this seminal poem by an Algonquin from the 1500s has been impeached by Republicans for containing certain anachronisms in language and font type. Decide for yourself: ******************************************** Hiawatha's Shopping List Honey, on your way home to me, Past the mall in Gitchigumee; snip Be home by six or else - Minn'haha ******************************************** Okay, any written records before 1700? Carl Fogel Well, the form isn't as attractive as that taken by Hiawatha's bride in the document referenced above, but there _is_ evidence that written records were kept: ******************************************** Invoice 28 December 1621 To: Maffachufettf Bay Colonie, Inc. 17 Rock Landing Plimouth Plantation, New Englande From: Squanto's Catering GmbH Cranberry Bog Hyannifport, Cape Codde Event/(Date): Firft Thankfgivinge (Thurfday, November 24, 1621) Turkey (50 @$5.00) $250.00 Pumpkin (80 @ $1.00) 80.00 Corn (9 bushels @ $4.50) 40.50 Cranberry Sauce (20 cans @ $1.00) 20.00 Venison (100lb @ $1.95) 195.00 Clams Casino (our specialty!) 92.50 Ala Puritani 74.50 Nuts and berries 48.00 TOTAL $800.50 Your account is past due. Please remit. ******************************************** ------------------------------- John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Since 1983 Our catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996. http://www.businesscycles.com |
#40
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On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:33:32 -0400, John Dacey
wrote: On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:53:46 -0600, wrote: Can you point me to any pre-1600 records written by North American Indian tribes? Curiously, Carl Fogel I'm surprised you're not familiar with "Hiawatha's Shopping List" which was shamelessly ripped off by Longfellow some centuries later as "The Song of Hiawatha". Regrettably, the veracity of this seminal poem by an Algonquin from the 1500s has been impeached by Republicans for containing certain anachronisms in language and font type. Decide for yourself: ******************************************** Hiawatha's Shopping List Honey, on your way home to me, Past the mall in Gitchigumee; snip Be home by six or else - Minn'haha ******************************************** Okay, any written records before 1700? Carl Fogel Well, the form isn't as attractive as that taken by Hiawatha's bride in the document referenced above, but there _is_ evidence that written records were kept: ******************************************** Invoice 28 December 1621 To: Maffachufettf Bay Colonie, Inc. 17 Rock Landing Plimouth Plantation, New Englande From: Squanto's Catering GmbH Cranberry Bog Hyannifport, Cape Codde Event/(Date): Firft Thankfgivinge (Thurfday, November 24, 1621) Turkey (50 @$5.00) $250.00 Pumpkin (80 @ $1.00) 80.00 Corn (9 bushels @ $4.50) 40.50 Cranberry Sauce (20 cans @ $1.00) 20.00 Venison (100lb @ $1.95) 195.00 Clams Casino (our specialty!) 92.50 Ala Puritani 74.50 Nuts and berries 48.00 TOTAL $800.50 Your account is past due. Please remit. ******************************************** ------------------------------- John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Since 1983 Our catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996. http://www.businesscycles.com Dear John, I fear that you have been hoodwinked by an unknown and unscrupulous forger! I assume that the "original" bill was in Times Old Puritan, not some new-fangled Papist font, but I forebear to pursue the typographical details. The content reeks of fraud. The date is a dead giveaway. All that we know is that the original 1621 feast took place during several days between September 21 and November 11: http://ca.essortment.com/whatwasthefir_rksf.htm (Note this chilling line from the page above: "The four surviving housewives along with their teenage daughters made preparation for the feast. ") In any case, November 24th, 1621, was a Wednesday: http://www.searchforancestors.com/ut...dayofweek.html It is also notorious that the "$" was not in use at that time. Even if the tribal caterer had wished to submit a bill in dollars instead of pounds or wampum, he would have had to switch to a special quill feather to create the unusual symbol. And no caterer would have forgotten to include the lobsters on the bill--I have repeatedly tested this at Red Lobster, Legal Seafood, and other establishments. Carl Fogel |
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