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Alloy nipples.
I've just had a wheel built recently and am getting quite fed up with it. Every time i take it for a ride the nipples loosen off and the rim snakes. The rim is a mavic CX18 with DT Swiss spokes and alloy nipples, 28 spokes built two cross. The bloke who built the wheel for me says he doesn't want to tighten the spokes to much and strip the threads in the nipples, which i can understand. I have two remedies for this problem but would appreciate a second or third opinion on the matter. First suggestion, bugger the weight advantage and go with brass nipples and tell him to tighten them up as much as needed. Second suggestion, use Loc-tite or similar on the threads and stop them from undoing. -- leestevens |
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#2
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leestevens wrote: I've just had a wheel built recently and am getting quite fed up with it. Every time i take it for a ride the nipples loosen off and the rim snakes. The rim is a mavic CX18 with DT Swiss spokes and alloy nipples, 28 spokes built two cross. The bloke who built the wheel for me says he doesn't want to tighten the spokes to much and strip the threads in the nipples, which i can understand. I have two remedies for this problem but would appreciate a second or third opinion on the matter. First suggestion, bugger the weight advantage and go with brass nipples and tell him to tighten them up as much as needed. Second suggestion, use Loc-tite or similar on the threads and stop them from undoing. -- leestevens *********************************** You should be able to tighten alloy nipples sufficiently, so maybe the bloke was not using a 'proper' spoke wrench (the type that holds 3 corners) The weight penalty of using brass nipples is very unlikely to be anything that you would notice. Lewis. ***************************** |
#3
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leestevens- I've just had a wheel built recently and am getting quite fed up
with it. Every time i take it for a ride the nipples loosen off and the rim snakes. The rim is a mavic CX18 with DT Swiss spokes and alloy nipples, 28 spokes built two cross. BRBR I answer-the spokes are coming loose because the tension was too low. Now that you have ridden this wheel, the rim may be deformed as well(bent). I would say have a better wheelbuilder rebuild with brass nipps and see. OBTW-weigh 28 alloy nipps and 28 brass nipps...see the difference? Less than a Power bar. Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302 (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene" |
#4
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leestevens wrote:
I've just had a wheel built recently and am getting quite fed up with it. Every time i take it for a ride the nipples loosen off and the rim snakes. The rim is a mavic CX18 with DT Swiss spokes and alloy nipples, 28 spokes built two cross. The bloke who built the wheel for me says he doesn't want to tighten the spokes to much and strip the threads in the nipples, which i can understand. I have two remedies for this problem but would appreciate a second or third opinion on the matter. First suggestion, bugger the weight advantage and go with brass nipples and tell him to tighten them up as much as needed. Second suggestion, use Loc-tite or similar on the threads and stop them from undoing. have your "bloke" use the proper [3 sided] tool. stipping threads within rim manufacturer specified spoke tension is impossible. more likely, they're using just a 2 sided tool and are worried about rounding the nipple flats. i suspect that they're not a very good builder. ask them if they used a spoke tensiometer. if not, just take your wheel back, walk out & find someone else that knows what they're doing. loctite is going to be ineffective if the existing spokes/nipps were previously lubed on assembly. given the above, that could well not be the case. again, qualify this person's competency before using loctite. locking in a bad build is /not/ a place you want to go. ask around and look for people riding wheels that remain true after extended use. /that's/ the person you want. worth payng more for too. there's nothing intrinsically wrong with alloy nipps when correctly used. find someone that knows what they're doing - your problems will disappear. |
#5
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In article ,
leestevens wrote: Every time i take it for a ride the nipples loosen off and the rim snakes. The bloke who built the wheel for me says he doesn't want to tighten the spokes to much and strip the threads in the nipples, which i can understand. The bloke who built the wheel is incompetant. Alloy nipples won't strip unless they corrode and seize up even on the highly tensioned rear wheel drive side. If you try to kludge arround the insufficiently tensioned wheel with Loctite or lindseed oil you'll probably have spoke breakage due to fatigue. With reasonably strong rims properly tensioned wheels don't need any sort of sticky goo to keep the nipples from unscrewing. A drop of oil for each nipple+socket is ideal. You might want to read _The Bicycle Wheel_ by Jobst Brandt and build your own wheels. They'll stay true until you crash them and when that happens you can have a replacement built by the next day. The only drawback is that it will take you much longer than a competant professional; although I find it somewhat relaxing and cathartic to build wheels with a big mug of stout. -- a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/"Home Page/a 9/11 was a premptive attack |
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#7
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jim beam wrote:
have your "bloke" use the proper [3 sided] tool. stipping threads within rim manufacturer specified spoke tension is impossible. more likely, they're using just a 2 sided tool and are worried about rounding the nipple flats. .... there's nothing intrinsically wrong with alloy nipps when correctly used. find someone that knows what they're doing - your problems will disappear. I disagree. The problem I've always had with aluminum nipples wasn't rounding the flats, it was the threads. When I'm tightening a really tight spoke the threads will simply pull out. The nipple threads that remain on the spoke look like tiny springs after I remove them. I've always used Edco aluminum nipples because by reputation they are the best. It is true that on a lot of wheels you can get aluminum nipples tight enough to work. A few times I used aluminum nipples and just replaced the ones that stripped while building or trueing then it ocurred to me that the darned things were just more bother than they are worth. The tradeoff for saving a few grams just isn't worth it. -- Bruce Jackson |
#8
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On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:53:32 +1100, leestevens
wrote: I've just had a wheel built recently and am getting quite fed up with it. Every time i take it for a ride the nipples loosen off and the rim snakes. The rim is a mavic CX18 with DT Swiss spokes and alloy nipples, 28 spokes built two cross. The bloke who built the wheel for me says he doesn't want to tighten the spokes to much and strip the threads in the nipples, which i can understand. I have two remedies for this problem but would appreciate a second or third opinion on the matter. First suggestion, bugger the weight advantage and go with brass nipples and tell him to tighten them up as much as needed. Second suggestion, use Loc-tite or similar on the threads and stop them from undoing. An emphatic "NO!" to the Loctite from me. A definite "yes" on the brass nipps, and stress-relieve the spokes as well; chances are good that this step has also been missed. If the wheel builder does not understand the meaning of stress-relieving, find a different one. -- Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to reply via email. Words processed in a facility that contains nuts. |
#9
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"leestevens" wrote in
message ... I've just had a wheel built recently and am getting quite fed up with it. Every time i take it for a ride the nipples loosen off and the rim snakes. The rim is a mavic CX18 with DT Swiss spokes and alloy nipples, 28 spokes built two cross. The bloke who built the wheel for me says he doesn't want to tighten the spokes to much and strip the threads in the nipples, which i can understand. I have two remedies for this problem but would appreciate a second or third opinion on the matter. First suggestion, bugger the weight advantage and go with brass nipples and tell him to tighten them up as much as needed. Second suggestion, use Loc-tite or similar on the threads and stop them from undoing. I weigh 235 and have one set of wheels with Al nipples (close out mega-deal, couldn't resist). I had no trouble getting the tension high enough for them not to unscrew, I didn't strip or round any. I've also had a wheel built with Loc-tite, that wasn't a tragedy either, although a couple of years later when I swapped the rim it took me twice as long to unscrew everything. I'd recommend staying away from both Al nipples and Loc-tite if possible, but since you've got the Al already, I wouldn't bother swapping. I would insist on the builder getting the spokes tight and stress-relieved. Personally, I've found the easiest way to get this done right is to do it myself, mostly because I can bring the tension up, go for a ride, check for spokes unscrewing (by tone), if I get any, bring up the tension a little more, lather, rinse, repeat. Beats going back to the shop over & over (been there, done that). |
#10
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Bruce Jackson wrote:
jim beam wrote: have your "bloke" use the proper [3 sided] tool. stipping threads within rim manufacturer specified spoke tension is impossible. more likely, they're using just a 2 sided tool and are worried about rounding the nipple flats. ... there's nothing intrinsically wrong with alloy nipps when correctly used. find someone that knows what they're doing - your problems will disappear. I disagree. The problem I've always had with aluminum nipples wasn't rounding the flats, it was the threads. When I'm tightening a really tight spoke the threads will simply pull out. i'll repeat: "stipping threads within rim manufacturer specified spoke tension is impossible." if you're stripping threads, you're exceeding manufacturer spec. The nipple threads that remain on the spoke look like tiny springs after I remove them. I've always used Edco aluminum nipples because by reputation they are the best. It is true that on a lot of wheels you can get aluminum nipples tight enough to work. A few times I used aluminum nipples and just replaced the ones that stripped while building or trueing then it ocurred to me that the darned things were just more bother than they are worth. The tradeoff for saving a few grams just isn't worth it. -- Bruce Jackson |
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