Florida 8-Year-Old Gets Traffic Ticket For Bike Mishap

You folks are a lot of fun. I have been lurking with the idea
of jumping in somewhere, but just about all of the responses have been
so far off the wall, where would one begin?

Chuckling,
Ken (NY)
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

"If you think health care is expensive now,
wait until you see what it costs when it's free."
- P.J. O'Rourke

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
A: Telling your parents you’re gay.

This era's heresy is the next era's normalcy. Not too long ago it was
considered right to steal someone's land, kill lots of them, then own the
rest like cattle, all because of the pigment in their skin and what brand of
God they worshipped.

Bad road etiquette may create the situation that maims and kills, but its
physics that determine who gets maimed or killed and how bad. With millions
of injury accidents a year, we had the data to write the formulas long ago:

I can see a traffic ticket clerk typing in vehicle type (linked to database
of vehicle weight and other factors, such as pedestrian/cyclist injury rate
(i.e. SUVs tend to run down & crush people) speed, location, etc. Based on
formulas derived from local and nationwide stats, your ticket price reflects
as close as possible just how much risk you posed to others.

It wouldn't be perfect, but its a hell of a lot smarter than giving a Trek
and a tractor trailer the same ticket.



"Ken [NY)" wrote in message
...

You folks are a lot of fun. I have been lurking with the idea
of jumping in somewhere, but just about all of the responses have been
so far off the wall, where would one begin?

Chuckling,
Ken (NY)
Chairman,
Department Of Redundancy Department
___________________________________
email:
http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

"If you think health care is expensive now,
wait until you see what it costs when it's free."
- P.J. O'Rourke

Q: What the hardest thing about rollerblading?
A: Telling your parents you're gay.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:46:39 GMT, Robert Haston wrote:
back to the days before Eli Whitney while I wasn't looking - manufactured
products have a set weight.

I once owned a Jeep. It was *cosiderably* heavier than it was when it
left the factory 15 years before. So would the court make me to and weigh
it on a truck scale or something?

And as to the ubiquitous "cyclists causes an accident" scenario, I've never
even heard of one.

I sat and watched a cyclist run every single red light without looking in
a downtown street last summer. I got a very close look because he actually
assaulted me for the fact that I kept passing him between lights. But anyway,
there were numerous cars that had to slam on their brakes to avoid hitting
him. One of the braking cars might have been rear-ended or a driver could
have swerved and hit a pedestrian.

Had anything happened, that cyclist should damned well have had to face
the same punishment as any driver who caused a similar accident.

So you don't care what someone is driving? You don't care whether you are
about to be T-boned by a moped or a semi?

For my safety? Sure. For determining the punishment of someone who causes
an accident? Not a damned care in the world. If the cyclist above also
drives a car, I'd rather he get caught and tossed a $50k fine for behaving
like an idiot on his bike than in his car. If he is given a weak message
for doing dumb things on a bike, that will translate into actions in his car.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:52:30 GMT, Bill Z. wrote:
Then you shouldn't have been so rude, since you now admit that you
don't have any idea.

From the begining I stated I wasn't from Florida. You just kept insisting
that I was. I have also said right from the beginning that unless you
can present law credentials for the Sate of Florida, I will readily accept
what is reported in their press overy anything you have to say. Yes,
reporters do sometimes get things wrong. However, often they do proper
research and they get things right. The odds that the press has it right
certainly beats your odds since you're just speaking about your opinion
based on local laws where YOU are.

Also, I was describing general principles, and
it is not necessary to issue a citation to assign blame: a police
report can do that. If some other state is braindead in that regard,
then the laws in that state need to be changed.

So let me see...you're right and the reporter is wrong, based not on
research but on your own opinion. If it should happen that you are
wrong, you SHOULD not be wrong and the entire electorate of the
State of Florida is. I see. I don't think I even need to comment on
that.

Around here, the threshold seems to be killing someone, unless an
oficer observes the accident. Significant property damage does
not suffice.

Personally, I think YOUR laws should be changed if anyting. I'd rather
make a driver face consequences for property damage without having to wait
for it to get to them killing someone.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:43:26 -0500, Doug Huffman wrote:
I ignored him after I whois-ed his 'nuclear biodome org'. It is just the
puffed up e-mail address of a troll.

Interesting. So now the name of a computer dictates someone's personality?
Aside from the fact that I don't own either this computer or the domain name,
I find your statement rather ignorant.

(sbirn) writes:

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 07:52:30 GMT, Bill Z. wrote:
Then you shouldn't have been so rude, since you now admit that you
don't have any idea.

From the begining I stated I wasn't from Florida. You just kept insisting
that I was. I have also said right from the beginning that unless you
can present law credentials for the Sate of Florida, I will readily accept
what is reported in their press overy anything you have to say.

Then you are more of a fool than I thought.

Around here, the threshold seems to be killing someone, unless an
oficer observes the accident. Significant property damage does
not suffice.

Personally, I think YOUR laws should be changed if anyting. I'd rather
make a driver face consequences for property damage without having to wait
for it to get to them killing someone.

The problem is not the laws. It is the threshold the police and the
District Attorney set before prosecuting someone. In one case around
here, the DA tried to whitewash a fatal accident, only to cave in
after considerable political pressure from advocacy groups. The driver
was finally convicted.

So much for your opinions.

Bill


--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

Doug Haxton wrote:

BRADENTON, Fla. -- The parents of an 8-year-old boy ticketed by police
for violating traffic rules on his bike say they won't pay the $34
citation for a child who is just half the legal driving age.

Is that actually legal in the US? Here in Germany no one under 14 can be
punished. Civil liability for damages caused is a different matter, that
starts with age 7.

So what would happen here is that the police officer would give a stern
lecture to the boy, and return him to his parents. The car driver would
then claim his repair bill from the parents (or their liability
insurance, if they have one).

There is a possibility to issue a citation to the parents if they did
not supervise the cild properly, but that is done only if serious
neglect is involved.

Dr Engelbert Buxbaum writes:

Doug Haxton wrote:

BRADENTON, Fla. -- The parents of an 8-year-old boy ticketed by police
for violating traffic rules on his bike say they won't pay the $34
citation for a child who is just half the legal driving age.

Is that actually legal in the US? Here in Germany no one under 14 can be
punished. Civil liability for damages caused is a different matter, that
starts with age 7.

So what would happen here is that the police officer would give a stern
lecture to the boy, and return him to his parents. The car driver would
then claim his repair bill from the parents (or their liability
insurance, if they have one).

There is a possibility to issue a citation to the parents if they did
not supervise the cild properly, but that is done only if serious
neglect is involved.

Sie wohnen doch in einem zivilisierten Land.

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

"sbirn" wrote in message
...
I once owned a Jeep. It was *cosiderably* heavier than it was when it
left the factory 15 years before. So would the court make me to and weigh
it on a truck scale or something?

Like I said, no system is perfect, but that doesn't keep you from striving
towards perfection.

I sat and watched a cyclist run every single red light without looking in
a downtown street last summer. I got a very close look because he
actually
assaulted me for the fact that I kept passing him between lights. But
anyway,
there were numerous cars that had to slam on their brakes to avoid hitting
him. One of the braking cars might have been rear-ended or a driver could
have swerved and hit a pedestrian.

Had anything happened, that cyclist should damned well have had to face
the same punishment as any driver who caused a similar accident.

So you also have never seen a cyclist caused accident. You saw one lunatic
cyclist with a death wish act like a total idiot. He faced the instant
death penalty for being stupid. Works for me - cuts a lot of red tape.

So you don't care what someone is driving? You don't care whether you
are
about to be T-boned by a moped or a semi?

For my safety? Sure. For determining the punishment of someone who
causes
an accident? Not a damned care in the world. If the cyclist above also
drives a car, I'd rather he get caught and tossed a $50k fine for behaving
like an idiot on his bike than in his car. If he is given a weak message
for doing dumb things on a bike, that will translate into actions in his
car.

So for your safety, yes - every one else's - no.

NO - IT GIVES THE OPPOSITE MESSAGE - If I face far less potential total
punishment (fines + potential injury) whilst wrapped in thousands of pounds
of steel safety cage - I can be even less responsible! Which is exactly
what we have - a society that acts like cyclists deserve what they get in a
wreck, even if its not their fault.

Here's a sci-fi story food for thought: Modern automotive safety devices
make cars avoid pedestrians and cyclists, and often crash instead into
obstacles and eachother - which is bad, but kills far less people overall.
The climax is pedestrians and cyclists start enjoying the power drivers
always had - and start paying less and less attention to the road. Some
even regularly harass cars and a few make some crash on purpose (sound
familiar?) But these are hard to prove. Drunks in particular become a
menace to traffic. They can't change the laws back because the total death
toll would rise. Drivers just have to start paying lots of extra attention
to keep themselves safe. In other words - the tables turn.

Risk Homeostasis: Every individual has a certain amount of risk they are
willing to accept in a given activity. If you lower the risk (air bags,
anti-lock brakes, etc.) people typically change their behavior to regain the
same level of risk - speeding, driving aggressively, paying less attention,
etc. This is why our cars have gotten safer, but accident statistics remain
stagnant.

Its too bad we can't take the misplaced fear from things like shark attack
and school shooters and fill in where its needed.

Robert,

I agree. As I like to put it, the automotive safety device we really
need is a 10-in dagger projecting from the center of each steering wheel.

RRS