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Woman crushes neighbour's car



 
 
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  #131  
Old January 21st 09, 09:40 AM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
BrianW[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Woman crushes neighbour's car

On 20 Jan, 23:54, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:
Brian Whitehead considered Mon, 19 Jan
2009 14:53:48 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:





On 19 Jan, 19:13, "jsabine" wrote:
Brimstone wrote:
You're quite right Doug, the "playing field" is decidedly not level.
Offending motorists get punished more severely that do people
convicted of manslaughter.


A moment with Google suggests you're quite, quite wrong.


http://www.publications.parliament.u.../vo060720/text
/60720w1849.htm - a written answer in 2006 - has a table showing that
custodial sentences for manslaughter between 1996-2004 averaged around
60 months.


http://www.rospa.com/RoadSafety/cons...gerous_driving
.pdf - ROSPA's input to the sentencing advisory panel in 2007 - says,
inter alia:


"Sentencing statistics show that average sentence lengths for the
offence of causing death by careless driving when under the influence
of drink or drugs have altered very little in the years 1999-2005,
remaining close to an average of 42 months. However, average sentence
levels for causing death by dangerous driving have shown a gradual
increase, from 35 months in 1999 to 44 months in 2004."


Since 2004, the maximum sentence for causing death by DD has been
increased from 10 to 14 years, and the Court of Appeal has mandated an
increase in all sentences for the offence:


http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/3186.html


I wouldn't be surprised if, when up to date stats become available,
that the average sentence for causing death by DD is the same, give or
take a month or two, as that for manslaughter.


I would be very surprised, if you include all the cases that could
have been prosecuted, but weren't - meaning a weighting of 0 months
for each case.-


In which case you'd have to do the same for deaths that could have
been prosecuted as manslaughter but weren't. Of which there are
probably a tad more ...
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  #132  
Old January 21st 09, 01:39 PM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
BrianW[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Woman crushes neighbour's car

On 21 Jan, 12:22, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:
BrianW considered Wed, 21 Jan 2009
00:40:10 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:





On 20 Jan, 23:54, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:
Brian Whitehead considered Mon, 19 Jan
2009 14:53:48 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:


On 19 Jan, 19:13, "jsabine" wrote:
Brimstone wrote:
You're quite right Doug, the "playing field" is decidedly not level.
Offending motorists get punished more severely that do people
convicted of manslaughter.


A moment with Google suggests you're quite, quite wrong.


http://www.publications.parliament.u.../vo060720/text
/60720w1849.htm - a written answer in 2006 - has a table showing that
custodial sentences for manslaughter between 1996-2004 averaged around
60 months.


http://www.rospa.com/RoadSafety/cons...gerous_driving
.pdf - ROSPA's input to the sentencing advisory panel in 2007 - says,
inter alia:


"Sentencing statistics show that average sentence lengths for the
offence of causing death by careless driving when under the influence
of drink or drugs have altered very little in the years 1999-2005,
remaining close to an average of 42 months. However, average sentence
levels for causing death by dangerous driving have shown a gradual
increase, from 35 months in 1999 to 44 months in 2004."


Since 2004, the maximum sentence for causing death by DD has been
increased from 10 to 14 years, and the Court of Appeal has mandated an
increase in all sentences for the offence:


http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2006/3186.html


I wouldn't be surprised if, when up to date stats become available,
that the average sentence for causing death by DD is the same, give or
take a month or two, as that for manslaughter.


I would be very surprised, if you include all the cases that could
have been prosecuted, but weren't - meaning a weighting of 0 months
for each case.-


In which case you'd have to do the same for deaths that could have
been prosecuted as manslaughter but weren't. *Of which there are
probably a tad more ...


Only by virtue of the fact that a large proportion of road deaths
could technically qualify to be tried as manslaughter instead.
If you exclude all road deaths from potential manslaughter charges,
I'd be very surprised if the number of potential mansaughter cases
amounted to even a small fraction of the number of road death cases,
or do potential manslaughter cases run into the thousands per year?-


Deaths in which negligence of one form or another may have played a
part? I should think so, yes.
  #133  
Old January 21st 09, 01:47 PM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 139
Default Woman crushes neighbour's car

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:54:59 +0000, Phil W Lee
phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:

Adrian considered 19 Jan 2009 13:54:25 GMT the
perfect time to write:

Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

Clearly he was driving dangerously


He was almost certainly driving carelessly. "Dangerous", in the legal
context, has a very specific requirement - a need to prove beyond
reasonable doubt that the defendent was driving "in a manner which falls
FAR below that of a competent driver and driving in such a way that it
would be obvious to a competent driver that there is a serious risk of
personal injury or serious damage to property."


If ploughing off the road through a group of cyclists doesn't
constitute proof that his driving fell "FAR below that of a competent
driver" and posed a "serious risk of personal injury" it's hard to
imagine ANY proof that would be acceptable.




So - you have never heard of anyone hitting black-ice and skidding off
the road - irrespective of how careful they were driving?



--

If you find 2 abreast cyclists more obstructive than single file ones,
you must have been intending to pass dangerously close anyway.
(Anchor Lee)
  #134  
Old January 21st 09, 01:49 PM posted to uk.transport,uk.rec.cycling
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 139
Default Woman crushes neighbour's car

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 23:54:59 +0000, Phil W Lee
phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:

snip


But how many cars were in the hedges along that length of road?
There is a world of difference between "having a problem with that bit
of road" and bouncing off the surrounding countryside and other road
users in order to stay on it.



You must have missed the bit where other motorists had had similar
problems and reported the conditions of the road to the police.



--

If you find 2 abreast cyclists more obstructive than single file ones,
you must have been intending to pass dangerously close anyway.
(Anchor Lee)
 




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