#11
|
|||
|
|||
italy or denmark?
On Jan 28, 11:14 am, "phil" wrote:
Thanks - is there a particular ride you an recommend in the Veneto/ Piedmont area? (book, self-guided tour, your own, etc.) For self-guided, one place to start is Lonely Planet's "Cycling Italy" -- unfortunately apparently out of print now. Amazon currently shows 2 resellers offering it at outrageous prices, Barnes & Noble finds no resellers for it. I own and operate Agile Compass cycling tours (www.agile-compass.com). We do tours in Piedmont, including in September. Cycling-Made in Italy (www.bikeitaly.com), owned and operated by a friend, does tours in the Veneto (including in September). Michael Khaw |
Ads |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
italy or denmark?
sergio wrote
The Piste Ciclabili are usually poor in signs and not at all well connected one to the next one. Thanks for the warning about the bicycle paths. When I said there were "gentle roads" in the Po valley I meant roads and streets for motor vehicles. I normally much prefer vehicle roads over bicycle paths for both my cycling and my skating -- because roads and streets usually have more interesting sights and more interesting terrain. And the roads often have a road surface than the "piste ciclabili" -- like I remember some of the bicycle paths along the river Tiber and the Via Appia Antica around Rome were covered with cobblestones (? "sanpietri" ?) I think I'm getting intrigued with trying some skating on streets and roads around Milano or Cremona or Vicenza -- or see what Torino is like now after the Olympics. Ken |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
italy or denmark?
On Jan 29, 5:06 pm, "Ken Roberts"
wrote: sergio wrote The Piste Ciclabili are usually poor in signs and not at all well connected one to the next one. Thanks for the warning about the bicycle paths. When I said there were "gentle roads" in the Po valley I meant roads and streets for motor vehicles. I normally much prefer vehicle roads over bicycle paths for both my cycling and my skating -- because roads and streets usually have more interesting sights and more interesting terrain. And the roads often have a road surface than the "piste ciclabili" -- like I remember some of the bicycle paths along the river Tiber and the Via Appia Antica around Rome were covered with cobblestones (? "sanpietri" ?) ... Ken The Ciclopista del Brenta, which connects with the (work-in-progress) Ciclopista del Sole, is well-paved from around Levico Terme to Forte Tombion just north of Cismon del Grappa, where it joins the paved 2- lane road along the Brenta River (opposite bank from the SS47 highway) into Bassano del Grappa. The "ciclopista" continues into the Po delta plain into Mestre-Venice, but follows ordinary secondary roads; at the other end, it extends from Levico Terme to Trento, though I've not ridden that stretch. As Sergio says, sometimes it can be a challenge to spot the turns which keep you on the intended path. Signage in the Valsugana has improved vastly in recent years, though I haven't ridden all the way towards Levico Terme in many years. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
italy or denmark?
On Jan 30, 5:18 am, "dorkypants" wrote:
As Sergio says, sometimes it can be a challenge to spot the turns which keep you on the intended path. Signage in the Valsugana has improved vastly in recent years, though I haven't ridden all the way towards Levico Terme in many years. Funny! Just a few days ago a friend of mine from Vicenza was telling me that the bicycle path along Valsugana is nice, though not entirely complete. Myself, I always ride regular roads, just about anywhere. I would certainly avoid the Statale along Valsugana, and many other roads elsewhere, even if bikes would be allowed. There is a problem in this country. Roads are seldom identified by their number and it might be difficult to take correct turns. You may also end up on a Superstrada (no bikes allowed here) without previous warning; this happened to me while going back into Milano from Lecco. Or be led to the entrance of a bad tunnel with no alternative bypass. About the many flat roads in the Veneto region it can safely said that they are usually very busy, and often narrow. This said, I very much prefer to ride hills. Sergio Pisa |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
italy or denmark?
sergio wrote
About the many flat roads in the Veneto region it can safely said that they are usually very busy, and often narrow. That's a good warning. Fortunately my few experiences around there so far have been better. Maybe I've just been lucky. Or maybe it's that I have a completely different approach for riding and skating on gentle terrain like the Veneto plain. I think riding on less busy roads requires making lots of turns and stopping in every little village to look at map, and sometimes having to make some guesses about which road to take when you're not sure where you are. For many of the long-distance touring cyclists, all those turns and stops and map-reading and guessing are obstacles which delay or even prevent achievement of the _big objective_ -- to arrive at the next important tourist site listed in some guidebook. But for Sharon and me, "stop in every little village" and "make some guesses" and "not sure where" _are_ the big objective of our bicycling in Italy. We succeed in finding non-busy roads because that's our main game and we've had lots of practice at it. Or another possibility is that maybe since I live in a generally not "bicycling-friendly" country (USA), I have lower expectations, so it's easier for me to feel happy. But it's not that I've never been to places with easier bicycling. And it's tricky, because if you ask me which country's road and path network is better designed to be "friendly" for bicycling or skating, my answer is definitely Germany (since I have not been to Denmark). But if you ask me where do I prefer to spend lots more time riding and skating, my answer is definitely Italy. Although I admit that's mainly because of the riding in the hills in Italy -- but then I usually prefer routes that go near or on hills anywhere I ride. Ken |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
italy or denmark?
On Jan 30, 2:57 pm, "Ken Roberts" iKen7Roberts7-
..That's a good warning. Fortunately my few experiences around there so far have been better. Maybe I've just been lucky. Just curious: tell me an itinerary in flatland Veneto that you enjoyed. I am mostly familiar with the province of Treviso. But if you ask me where do I prefer to spend lots more time riding and skating, my answer is definitely Italy. Although I admit that's mainly because of the riding in the hills in Italy -- but then I usually prefer routes that go near or on hills anywhere I ride. From such a point of view, I doubt anyone would disagree. Sergio Pisa .. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
italy or denmark?
I'm with Sergio, I prefer to ride in the hills and mountains. To me
navigating the roads in the Veneto plain is like the old text- adventure game whose name escapes me right now: "you're stuck in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike". From a distance one hamlet with a campanile towering over it looks pretty much like any other, and in the summer haze, it can sometimes be hard to tell where the mountains are or tell the position of the sun (in order to figure out where north is). TCI maps don't do a good job of covering the small local roads, as their focus is more on roads that drivers use to get from A to B. Local provincial maps are typically out-of-date (i.e., prone to show roads that are no longer there or perhaps were projected but never built, and/or not show roads that ARE there), if not inclined to "poetic license" (one shows the fork at the top of the climb from Romano d'Ezzelino to Mt. Grappa going the OPPOSITE direction from the actual road!). Hi-res satellite photo images available on Google Maps, Google Earth are more informative. Tuttocitta.it is pretty good too, with the drawback that they completely blank out anything outside the national boundaries of Italy (e.g., there's no info on the route from Passo Stelvio which cuts through Switzerland). The same applies to maps of Piemonte, by the way. So I've taken to carrying a GPS to record where I've been on my bike in order to make my own maps. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
italy or denmark?
On 31 Gen, 02:15, "dorkypants" wrote:
I'm with Sergio, Thanks, so let's get down to more detailed info. (one shows the fork at the top of the climb from Romano d'Ezzelino to Mt. Grappa going the OPPOSITE direction from the actual road!). The Massiccio del Monte Grappa is a case in itself. There are so many different, and so challanging to beware of, roads up there, including Monte Tomba of course, that one would never imagine. Tuttocitta.it is pretty good too, with the drawback that they completely blank out anything outside the national boundaries of Italy (e.g., there's no info on the route from Passo Stelvio which cuts through Switzerland). But every good cyclist 'should' be familiar with Umbrail! I know nothing at all about Tuttocitta'. The TCI 1/200000 maps are all you need to cycle on regular roads. Even an old edition serves well. A new road is almost invariably a four-lane or something you would not take anyhow; the only real problem is with new local detours thgrough tunnels or tunnels that have been joined and turned into a much longer quagmire for a cyclist. Of which there are a good number, unfortunately. The same applies to maps of Piemonte, by the way. So I've taken to carrying a GPS to record where I've been on my bike in order to make my own maps. That appears to be an unnecessary luxury, to me. Sergio Pisa |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
italy or denmark?
Sounds like the three of us all prefer hills.
Just curious: tell me an itinerary in flatland Veneto that you enjoyed. Short answer: I don't know about an "itinerary", but here's some areas with gentle, lower-traffic roads that I'd go back to: ** between Mestre and Treviso, around the 13 road but not on it, _between_ the cities but not actually going into or out of them. ** in the Brenta river delta between Padova and Mestre (but not into either city), around Camponogara and Dolo. (What I would _not_ want to do again was skate from there _into_ the city of Padova.) I don't remember my exact route, but it seemed there were enough low-traffic roads around there that it would be fun to explore more again for a short day, and likely I'd choose some roads + villages differently. (But actually for bicycling I usually prefer an area that has more hills, and I've know some of those I'd go back to also.) Overall in the general region around the Po river, each time I've wanted to find some riding or skating out in the gentle farmland away from cities on low-traffic roads, I'd make a guess from the TCI 1:200000 map, drive my car to the area, got my bicycle out and the riding was pretty much like I was hoping. Maybe I've just been lucky. Or maybe it was because I focused on a single objective which I'm good at. Fun challenge? How about you pick a gentle area in Po region which I've never been to before, somewhere between Torino and Verona, and I'll make up my own loop route and try to skate it, and I'll report back on how it worked. Ken ______________________ Long answer: When I see the word "itinerary" I'm not sure how to respond, because I usually just do single-day loop tours on my bicycle or skates to have fun and exercise. Or if I've already arrived in a town or city, it's nice to ride or skate or walk around on the streets. But for a bigger journey to some "important" destination, like from one city to another (an "itinerary"?), Sharon and I just drive there in a car. I think that's how most bicyclists who live in France + Switzerland + Germany + Italy do most of their riding and traveling when in Europe. (And how most American bicyclists do it when riding in their home region in America). Like I heard that Parma was a nice bicycling town, but I did not go there by riding on my bicycle -- I drove my rental car to Parma, and then rode my bicycle around on the city streets at night. Another day I did some riding on gentle farmland south of Parma -- seemed like there's lots of low-traffic roads there. And another day I tried a little further south in the Apennine hills, and rode around Monte Caio -- but I didn't ride from Parma to the Apennines. I first drove my car to Tizzano V Parma and started my loop riding from closer to the mountain. I suspect that in most of Italy having an "itinerary" tends to get in the way of fun riding, and makes it harder to find low-traffic roads. One problem is that an "itinerary" tends to make you want to try ride _into_ cities, and that often makes it difficult to avoid high-traffic roads, unless you have special local knowledge. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
italy or denmark?
Ken,
you gave a very good answer. I see that you meant taking well chosen daily tours, and what you say is quite appropriate, and correct. A few years ago I did an off-season journey by bike from Borgomanero to Montebelluna, through Pavia, Casalpusterlengo, Cremona, Mantova, Padova and Treviso. Believe me, it was some experience, though not a surprise at all for me. Going back to how one can find his way around, only a week ago I was in Padova and after dining at friends' I had to drive over to my overnight lodging, in Piazzola sul Brenta. Luckily I had a (borrowed) GPS machine with me: no way I would have been able to find the Hotel by just consulting my, inseparable, TCI atlas and searching for road signs. So long Sergio Pisa |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
the PM of Denmark gave a bike to Bush | Werehatrack | General | 1 | June 10th 06 07:50 AM |
Is Mikael from Denmark still here? | Joshua Goldberg | Recumbent Biking | 6 | November 24th 04 10:43 AM |
italy here i come!! | evilewan | Unicycling | 14 | June 28th 04 01:01 PM |
Thoughts on cycling in Denmark | Hugh Fenton | Australia | 8 | November 2nd 03 05:56 AM |
RR: Mountain biking in Denmark | iddqdATworldonline.dk | Mountain Biking | 12 | July 21st 03 12:18 PM |