Making America into Amsterdam

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 11:08:23 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/18/2018 12:15 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I spit on tiny clown pumps -- no, I mean it. Sometimes the pump-handle/piston needs lubrication. I prefer the hose models, but all of them are a PITA and require about 200 strokes to get a tire up to pressure.

I also carry CO2 cartridges and used both the pump and the cartridges last weekend due to a flat-fest with my son. I buy cheap cartridges in bulk from Amazon. Yes, the environmental impact of steel cartridges is bad . . . but they're so convenient! I scoffed at them until I started using them, but I would not go with CO2 alone. I always carry a pump.

A couple years ago, after some health problems, I went on a club ride
that was nearly too much for me. It was very hot, and I think my recent
bronchitis was still constricting my breathing. I was fighting to keep up..

As we were climbing on one of the more remote roads around here, one guy
flatted. Normally I'm one of the chief flat fixers, but I lay my bike
down, then lay myself down on its downhill side and propped my feet up
on the handlebars, trying to get some strength back.

Lucky for me, the repair was a disaster. They put in one spare tube, but
it was leaking badly. They put another tube in and tried inflating it
with CO2. The CO2 fitting somehow misfired. They wasted another CO2...
and so on.

I finally got up and gave them my full-size Zefal pump, the only
inflating device I ever carry. (Except on the folding bike, where I
have a mini pump stashed.)

They succeeded with the Zefal. And I had recovered enough that I was OK
the rest of the ride, and perfect after a Dairy Queen stop for a bunch
of Mountain Dew.

I think if I were to carry anything else on the bike, it would be
Mountain Dew.

--
- Frank Krygowski

My experience is just the opposite. A common mistake people make with CO2 cartridges is that the fill their tire in one blow. The valve will freeze if there is some humidity in the air. Better is to fill your tire in 3 or 4 blows and wait a couple of seconds in between. people should have paid attention during science class ;-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_process

Lou

On 2018-07-18 22:37, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 07:56:20 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-07-16 18:42, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 19:33:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/16/2018 1:41 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-16 10:23, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/16/2018 1:19 PM, Joerg wrote:

[...]


You would not believe how often my "excess baggage" has saved the day
for others with serious signs of dehydration and zero ounces in their
bottles.

You're right about that: I would not believe. Unless, that is, you're
going to give us a very, very low number.


One guy (on a hike in Yosemite) would most likely not have made it if it
wasn't for a large excess stash of water and food in our backpacks. ...
A Chinese tourist in Grand Canyon ran out of water and gave up on the
trail, in the glistening sun. Just wanted to "stay there". I have her a
lot of water and food until she perked up.

Oh, silly me. I thought we were talking about bicycling!

How strange.

Over here the Chinese tourists all travel in groups on pre-arranged
tours. There are two reasons for this, firstly some of the more remote
Chinese dialects probably won't be understood outside their local
regions and secondly that the Chinese, like the Japanese before them,
tend to be on prepaid tours. Pay the full amount of the tour tour cost
before you depart and enjoy a fun filled, jam packed, vacation with
every minute supervised by the tour guide.

We recently had a tour boat sink in Phuket and a number of Chinese
were drowned. The next morning the news announced that 27,000 Chinese
had cancelled their visit to Phuket. They seem to act as groups.

Wandering about alone and getting dehydrated just doesn't seem to
happen with the Chinese here. Strange that they are so different in
America.

Or perhaps they aren't. After all he quotes the Chinese saying "I
wanna stay here" something that would be impossible with a real
Chinese Tour member as he wouldn't have spoken English and if he were
speaking the kind of Chinese that you hear in N.E. Thailand it would
sound much like "Koi Yak Hi Chow You Mong Me".

But then the Chinese have figured in some of the more imaginative
writing. Remember Fu Manchu and the Yellow Peril ?


Believe it or not but there are Chinese who do speak English. There are
also Chinese who vacation like we used to, landing, renting a car and
heading out, sans pre-reserved hotel beds. Many did it like us,
reserving only the first and last night at a hotel near the airport. We
met many of them during our trips.

Of course there are. However on a proportion basis the vast bulk of
the Chinese "tourists", my guess is in the 90% range, are on these
prepaid tours. And the vast bulk do not speak a foreign language.


The vast bulk of such tourists from any country never sets foot into the
Grand Canyon. Certainly not past the plateau on the Bright Angel Trail.
Those groups merely stand at the edge ... "Now all smile please" ...
click, while the bus engine idles to keep its A/C going. See all of the
Western US in 10 days, or something like that.


There are people in this world who, like us, can't stand being cooped up
in a tour bus and being told "Hurry, we've only got 20 minutes here".


BTW, if you want you sig line cut off automatically in replies you have
to add another space behind the two dashes, like in mine below. No big
deal, just saying.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wed, 18 Jul 2018 21:52:31 -0400, Radey Shouman
wrote:

Seriously? They don't get all damp and sweaty and ground into pieces?
Pockets work for old fashioned handkerchiefs, not so much for tissues,
in my experience.

I use a table napkin or a paper towel -- the towel in the winter when
I'm going to be feeling for it with mittens on.

A napkin has the further advantage that one can stick it back into the
pocket and use it again, and it doesn't have to be carefully folded
before use.

I keep spares in another pocket, and also in my saddlebag.

------------------------

Back in the eighties, I went on a tour with three other people. My
handlebar bag happened to neatly fit a "boutique" box of tissues.
Every now and again one of the other riders would ride past me and
grab.

I don't recall how I reconciled keeping the handkerchiefs available
and reading my map.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

On 2018-07-18 18:52, Radey Shouman wrote:
Joerg writes:

On 2018-07-18 09:03, Radey Shouman wrote:
Duane writes:

On 17/07/2018 6:46 PM, Joerg wrote:

In the US we have a much nastier habit among weight weenie cyclists
who probably find the weight of a paper tissue unbearable. So they
don't carry any. When the nose gets plugged they press a finger
against one side and let off a "snot rocket", then against the other
for missile #2. I was almost hit by one when pulling out to pass a
cyclist. It's disgusting.


Yes, I'm sure it's the weight of the tissue that prevents these
cyclists from using them. Maybe it's some guy coming up behind them
with the tunes blaring and the bright headlight that invokes this
behavior...

I would much rather see the occasional tiny blob of snot on the road
instead of blowing tissues. How and from where does one fish a dry
tissue when riding along? Think of the trees, for God's sake.


I get mine out of a wonderful invention from of old: A pocket.

Seriously? They don't get all damp and sweaty and ground into pieces?
Pockets work for old fashioned handkerchiefs, not so much for tissues,
in my experience.


This is where outside pockets shine. Essentially like
pockets-on-pockets. Now during the hot summer months I ride in cargo
shorts which have those on the legs above the regular large leg pockets.
The large pocket themselves I leave almost empty but I carry an extra
two folded Kleenex in one of them. Wouldn't matter if that shredded but
that area doesn't sweat through at all. Those Kleenex have come in very
handy for other riders after they fixed a chain-suck or whatever and now
stood there with oil stains on their hands.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 7/18/2018 4:37 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-18 14:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/18/2018 12:54 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 9:00 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

I think the most ridiculous statement was that the bicycle paths all
have a parking lot at each end. The ones around here sure don't. There
are parking lots nearby some of the access points, in corporate
locations, shopping areas, parks, and condo or apartment complexes,
but these were not added for people to drive to the trail and
park. The one I know of that does have parking lots along the way
specifically for trail users is Sawyer Camp trail, though the parking
lots are not at both ends, the northern end of the trail has no
parking lot, though there is street parking close by.

Different worlds, I guess.Â* Where to put the parking lots is a major
bone of contention for any proposed MUP around here.Â* Nothing freezes
the cockles of a New Englander's heart like thinking that someone,
somewhere is parking at his expense, or that good for nothing bike-rack
toting cars might clog up his business lot to no commercial purpose.

One of our favorite rides is to start in Seaside, CA and ride to
Carmel. Part of the route is on a very popular MUP, which is mostly
used by cyclists except for the part that goes through the Fisherman's
Wharf area of Monterey.

We do drive there. There is no parking lot for the trail in Seaside,
but there is plenty of street parking near most of the access points,
and the shopping center not far from the beginning doesn't seem to
mind if you park in the more remote sections of the lot.

Even the popular Sawyer Camp Trail in San Mateo doesn't really have a
parking lot that you drive into, they just carved out some limited
street parking on the shoulders of Skyline Boulevard and Crystal
Springs Road. It's a very popular area with not nearly enough parking.
https://goo.gl/maps/6xn95KHvx6y.

The salient point is not that there is a specially constructed parking
lot at each end. Obviously, in some areas they may not have room to
dedicate to a parking lot, so users park on the streets. The salient
point is that the typical trail users (really, almost ALL trail users in
almost all areas) use a car to haul their bike to the trail.


Not in Folsom, Rancho Cordova, Davis, et cetera. Why? Because they have
bike infrastructure connection neighborhood, shopping areas and work
places to the trail.

In many other places your statement is true. Why? Because there is no
bike infrastructure connecting to the trail and almost all cyclists hate
to ride in the lane.

We have mixed commuters which use car - bike or car - light rail -
bike. Most use the car because it's eitehr to far or there is a lack of
bike infrastructure.


Frank extrapolates his experience in Youngstown Ohio onto the rest of
the country. This naturally leads to a mis-statement of reality.

All he really had to say was "really, almost ALL trail users in
MY area) use a car to haul their bike to the trail. Though we really
don't know if even that is true either.

What IS actually true is that many mountain bikers haul their bikes to
trail heads for mountain biking. But for multi-use trails, like most of
the creek trails around here, that is not the case.

On 7/19/2018 12:27 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 4:37 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-18 14:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/18/2018 12:54 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 9:00 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

I think the most ridiculous statement was that the
bicycle paths all
have a parking lot at each end. The ones around here
sure don't. There
are parking lots nearby some of the access points, in
corporate
locations, shopping areas, parks, and condo or
apartment complexes,
but these were not added for people to drive to the
trail and
park. The one I know of that does have parking lots
along the way
specifically for trail users is Sawyer Camp trail,
though the parking
lots are not at both ends, the northern end of the
trail has no
parking lot, though there is street parking close by.

Different worlds, I guess. Where to put the parking
lots is a major
bone of contention for any proposed MUP around here.Â
Nothing freezes
the cockles of a New Englander's heart like thinking
that someone,
somewhere is parking at his expense, or that good for
nothing bike-rack
toting cars might clog up his business lot to no
commercial purpose.

One of our favorite rides is to start in Seaside, CA and
ride to
Carmel. Part of the route is on a very popular MUP,
which is mostly
used by cyclists except for the part that goes through
the Fisherman's
Wharf area of Monterey.

We do drive there. There is no parking lot for the trail
in Seaside,
but there is plenty of street parking near most of the
access points,
and the shopping center not far from the beginning
doesn't seem to
mind if you park in the more remote sections of the lot.

Even the popular Sawyer Camp Trail in San Mateo doesn't
really have a
parking lot that you drive into, they just carved out
some limited
street parking on the shoulders of Skyline Boulevard and
Crystal
Springs Road. It's a very popular area with not nearly
enough parking.
https://goo.gl/maps/6xn95KHvx6y.

The salient point is not that there is a specially
constructed parking
lot at each end. Obviously, in some areas they may not
have room to
dedicate to a parking lot, so users park on the streets.
The salient
point is that the typical trail users (really, almost ALL
trail users in
almost all areas) use a car to haul their bike to the trail.


Not in Folsom, Rancho Cordova, Davis, et cetera. Why?
Because they have bike infrastructure connection
neighborhood, shopping areas and work places to the trail.

In many other places your statement is true. Why? Because
there is no bike infrastructure connecting to the trail
and almost all cyclists hate to ride in the lane.

We have mixed commuters which use car - bike or car -
light rail - bike. Most use the car because it's eitehr
to far or there is a lack of bike infrastructure.


Frank extrapolates his experience in Youngstown Ohio onto
the rest of the country. This naturally leads to a
mis-statement of reality.

All he really had to say was "really, almost ALL trail users in
MY area) use a car to haul their bike to the trail. Though
we really don't know if even that is true either.

What IS actually true is that many mountain bikers haul
their bikes to trail heads for mountain biking. But for
multi-use trails, like most of the creek trails around here,
that is not the case.

Frank's near Columbus, not at all like THOSE people up in
Youngstown.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 7/19/2018 2:13 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 11:08:23 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/18/2018 12:15 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I spit on tiny clown pumps -- no, I mean it. Sometimes the pump-handle/piston needs lubrication. I prefer the hose models, but all of them are a PITA and require about 200 strokes to get a tire up to pressure.

I also carry CO2 cartridges and used both the pump and the cartridges last weekend due to a flat-fest with my son. I buy cheap cartridges in bulk from Amazon. Yes, the environmental impact of steel cartridges is bad . . . but they're so convenient! I scoffed at them until I started using them, but I would not go with CO2 alone. I always carry a pump.

A couple years ago, after some health problems, I went on a club ride
that was nearly too much for me. It was very hot, and I think my recent
bronchitis was still constricting my breathing. I was fighting to keep up.

As we were climbing on one of the more remote roads around here, one guy
flatted. Normally I'm one of the chief flat fixers, but I lay my bike
down, then lay myself down on its downhill side and propped my feet up
on the handlebars, trying to get some strength back.

Lucky for me, the repair was a disaster. They put in one spare tube, but
it was leaking badly. They put another tube in and tried inflating it
with CO2. The CO2 fitting somehow misfired. They wasted another CO2...
and so on.

I finally got up and gave them my full-size Zefal pump, the only
inflating device I ever carry. (Except on the folding bike, where I
have a mini pump stashed.)

They succeeded with the Zefal. And I had recovered enough that I was OK
the rest of the ride, and perfect after a Dairy Queen stop for a bunch
of Mountain Dew.

I think if I were to carry anything else on the bike, it would be
Mountain Dew.

--
- Frank Krygowski

My experience is just the opposite. A common mistake people make with CO2 cartridges is that the fill their tire in one blow. The valve will freeze if there is some humidity in the air. Better is to fill your tire in 3 or 4 blows and wait a couple of seconds in between. people should have paid attention during science class ;-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_process

I know about adiabatic processes, and it's obvious the temperature of
the expanding CO2 will drop. But I have no personal experience with CO2
tire inflaters. Are you saying the inside of the valve freezes? Can you
explain how that happens?

It seems to me the CO2 being injected must be dry, and the tube is
essentially empty of air. I'd think if ice formed, it would be on the
outside of the valve where it doesn't matter.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/19/2018 1:27 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 4:37 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-07-18 14:18, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/18/2018 12:54 PM, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 9:00 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

I think the most ridiculous statement was that the bicycle paths all
have a parking lot at each end. The ones around here sure don't.
There
are parking lots nearby some of the access points, in corporate
locations, shopping areas, parks, and condo or apartment complexes,
but these were not added for people to drive to the trail and
park. The one I know of that does have parking lots along the way
specifically for trail users is Sawyer Camp trail, though the parking
lots are not at both ends, the northern end of the trail has no
parking lot, though there is street parking close by.

Different worlds, I guess.Â* Where to put the parking lots is a major
bone of contention for any proposed MUP around here.Â* Nothing freezes
the cockles of a New Englander's heart like thinking that someone,
somewhere is parking at his expense, or that good for nothing
bike-rack
toting cars might clog up his business lot to no commercial purpose.

One of our favorite rides is to start in Seaside, CA and ride to
Carmel. Part of the route is on a very popular MUP, which is mostly
used by cyclists except for the part that goes through the Fisherman's
Wharf area of Monterey.

We do drive there. There is no parking lot for the trail in Seaside,
but there is plenty of street parking near most of the access points,
and the shopping center not far from the beginning doesn't seem to
mind if you park in the more remote sections of the lot.

Even the popular Sawyer Camp Trail in San Mateo doesn't really have a
parking lot that you drive into, they just carved out some limited
street parking on the shoulders of Skyline Boulevard and Crystal
Springs Road. It's a very popular area with not nearly enough parking.
https://goo.gl/maps/6xn95KHvx6y.

The salient point is not that there is a specially constructed parking
lot at each end. Obviously, in some areas they may not have room to
dedicate to a parking lot, so users park on the streets. The salient
point is that the typical trail users (really, almost ALL trail users in
almost all areas) use a car to haul their bike to the trail.


Not in Folsom, Rancho Cordova, Davis, et cetera. Why? Because they
have bike infrastructure connection neighborhood, shopping areas and
work places to the trail.

In many other places your statement is true. Why? Because there is no
bike infrastructure connecting to the trail and almost all cyclists
hate to ride in the lane.

We have mixed commuters which use car - bike or car - light rail -
bike. Most use the car because it's eitehr to far or there is a lack
of bike infrastructure.


Frank extrapolates his experience in Youngstown Ohio onto the rest of
the country. This naturally leads to a mis-statement of reality.

As I explained, I've ridden in 47 U.S. states and about a dozen other
countries. I didn't ride trails in all those, but I've ridden many
trails in many places. My opinions are derived from _all_ those
experiences.

As also explained, I was on the team that evaluated all statewide
funding requests for such trails in one year. I saw applications from
all across Ohio, not just my area.

This was one example: A park in one township applied to put a trail
across the center of a small lake or large pond in that park. The pond
already had a trail around its circumference, but they thought it would
be nice to have one along a diameter. In their mind, this was
"transportation." (It didn't get funded.)

Another example was a proposed sidepath leading into a small park not
far from a village center. The park had an entrance road. The entrance
road carried (IIRC) only about 800 cars per day, at 25 mph. But they
felt that was too many for the comfort of anyone on a bike, so they
wanted a separate path. They called that a transportation project.

All he really had to say was "really, almost ALL trail users in
MY area) use a car to haul their bike to the trail. Though we really
don't know if even that is true either.

Here's a link to survey data from 20 trails in Pennsylvania and New Jersey:
https://www.railstotrails.org/resour...in al_Rev.pdf

"Purpose of Trail Use: Health 56% Recreation 38% Training 3%
Other 2% Commuting 1%"


--
- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 7/19/2018 2:13 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 11:08:23 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/18/2018 12:15 PM, jbeattie wrote:
I spit on tiny clown pumps -- no, I mean it. Sometimes the
pump-handle/piston needs lubrication. I prefer the hose models,
but all of them are a PITA and require about 200 strokes to get a
tire up to pressure.

I also carry CO2 cartridges and used both the pump and the
cartridges last weekend due to a flat-fest with my son. I buy
cheap cartridges in bulk from Amazon. Yes, the environmental
impact of steel cartridges is bad . . . but they're so convenient!
I scoffed at them until I started using them, but I would not go
with CO2 alone. I always carry a pump.

A couple years ago, after some health problems, I went on a club ride
that was nearly too much for me. It was very hot, and I think my recent
bronchitis was still constricting my breathing. I was fighting to keep up.

As we were climbing on one of the more remote roads around here, one guy
flatted. Normally I'm one of the chief flat fixers, but I lay my bike
down, then lay myself down on its downhill side and propped my feet up
on the handlebars, trying to get some strength back.

Lucky for me, the repair was a disaster. They put in one spare tube, but
it was leaking badly. They put another tube in and tried inflating it
with CO2. The CO2 fitting somehow misfired. They wasted another CO2...
and so on.

I finally got up and gave them my full-size Zefal pump, the only
inflating device I ever carry. (Except on the folding bike, where I
have a mini pump stashed.)

They succeeded with the Zefal. And I had recovered enough that I was OK
the rest of the ride, and perfect after a Dairy Queen stop for a bunch
of Mountain Dew.

I think if I were to carry anything else on the bike, it would be
Mountain Dew.

--
- Frank Krygowski

My experience is just the opposite. A common mistake people make
with CO2 cartridges is that the fill their tire in one blow. The
valve will freeze if there is some humidity in the air. Better is to
fill your tire in 3 or 4 blows and wait a couple of seconds in
between. people should have paid attention during science class ;-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_process

I know about adiabatic processes, and it's obvious the temperature of
the expanding CO2 will drop. But I have no personal experience with
CO2 tire inflaters. Are you saying the inside of the valve freezes?
Can you explain how that happens?

It seems to me the CO2 being injected must be dry, and the tube is
essentially empty of air. I'd think if ice formed, it would be on the
outside of the valve where it doesn't matter.

It is possible to produce dry ice by expansion of liquid CO2 to
atmospheric pressure. There are commercially available devices to do
this, eg SnowPack. I'm not sure how likely it is to happen by accident
when inflating tires, but it is conceivable.

On 7/19/2018 4:07 PM, Duane wrote:

snip

Strange but I’ve noticed a lot of road bike commuters here the last couple
of days. Maybe it’s the TDF or maybe it’s the less humid temps. We
have a couple new bike paths in the area and they’re smooth, wide and well
designed. Amazing. Seem to be getting used...

Perhaps they opened some new parking lots for those bike paths. That has
got to be it. As we recently learned "almost ALL trail users in almost
all areas use a car to haul their bike to the trail." LOL. Usenet is
always amusing.