A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Chain Stretch



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old September 17th 17, 06:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Chain Stretch

On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 6:40:54 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Saturday, September 16, 2017 at 10:45:12 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 12:30:48 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 4:49:05 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
I've been thinking about chain wear, sometimes called chain stretch,
and have done a bit of research on the subject.

One method is to lay the chain on a flat surface and measure the wear
over, perhaps 12 inches of chain length, from the head of one pin to
another. But modern multi speed chains are a bit more complex then the
old fashioned chains and the rollers on a modern chain are not
supported by the pins but by protrusions on the inner surface of the
inner links thus does the distance from roller to roller relate to
distance from pin to pin?

Another method is to ignore the pin to pin distance and simply measure
the roller to roller distance using a chain gauge. But I have also
read that when comparing roller to roller measurement to pin to pin
measurement there is not necessarily a correlation, or in other words
a pin to pin measurement might show one thing while the roller to
roller might show a totally different wear pattern. In addition I read
that in at least one case the roller to roller wear was not constant
and varied from place to place in the length of the chain

Brandt, I believe, wrote a treatise on chain measuring gauges and
argued that nearly all of them gave an incorrect figure for wear, or
perhaps, did it the wrong way.

So the question is what is the best system to use to avoid unnecessary
sprocket wear, assuming that sprockets cost more and are more trouble
to change than chains.

There seems to be three options. One, to use a ruler and measure from
pin to pin. Two to use a chain tool and measure from roller to roller.
Or three, to use some combination of the two.

Or perhaps there is a fourth - ignore the whole thing as a tempest in
a tea pot :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Since the switch to cassettes (8+ cogs) from freewheels https://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html , the axle width has remained the same while the cog teeth and chains have become narrower. Since the load and the length are the same, the pressure per square inch has increased to the point where an 11 speed chain basically needs changed with the tire. Single speed chains will basically last until rusty.


I get 3 tires out of a 11 speed chain and if the same criteria is used for replacement for a single speed chain as for a 11 speed than the difference is that much.


Lou, I understood the first bit well enough but couldn't quite make out the single speed chain wear part.


Tom I rode a single speed for a long time in the winter and the last years a bike with a gear hub (I'm getting old) and the chains on those bikes wore much faster than the chains on my road bikes. Of coarse the conditions are different but not so much that it would explain the wear rate. You can get away with it as long as you don't replace the cog and the chain ring until the teeth are completely gone and that takes a long time.

You must either buy cheap tires or ride a hell of a lot more than I do in order to wear out 3 tires per chain.


I ride 7000 km on my road bikes, that means two new rear tires. I use only Continental GP4000S. Chains are Campagnolo Record 11 speed. Most of the times I get 10000 km out of that chain except this last time when I encountered a remarkable difference between the chains on my two road bikes.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vZ4zMH61d6mGl84C2

From top to bottom: new chain, chain on one road bike after about 9500 km and the chain on the other road bike after 7500 km. Only difference I see is that I used a different lube for a while. Still puzzles me.

Lou


I wear out perhaps a Gatorskin and a half per chain. But I mostly replace chains early since they're relatively cheap and better a chain than wearing out a cassette.

Ads
  #32  
Old September 17th 17, 10:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Chain Stretch

On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:13:55 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 6:40:54 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Saturday, September 16, 2017 at 10:45:12 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 12:30:48 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 4:49:05 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
I've been thinking about chain wear, sometimes called chain stretch,
and have done a bit of research on the subject.

One method is to lay the chain on a flat surface and measure the wear
over, perhaps 12 inches of chain length, from the head of one pin to
another. But modern multi speed chains are a bit more complex then the
old fashioned chains and the rollers on a modern chain are not
supported by the pins but by protrusions on the inner surface of the
inner links thus does the distance from roller to roller relate to
distance from pin to pin?

Another method is to ignore the pin to pin distance and simply measure
the roller to roller distance using a chain gauge. But I have also
read that when comparing roller to roller measurement to pin to pin
measurement there is not necessarily a correlation, or in other words
a pin to pin measurement might show one thing while the roller to
roller might show a totally different wear pattern. In addition I read
that in at least one case the roller to roller wear was not constant
and varied from place to place in the length of the chain

Brandt, I believe, wrote a treatise on chain measuring gauges and
argued that nearly all of them gave an incorrect figure for wear, or
perhaps, did it the wrong way.

So the question is what is the best system to use to avoid unnecessary
sprocket wear, assuming that sprockets cost more and are more trouble
to change than chains.

There seems to be three options. One, to use a ruler and measure from
pin to pin. Two to use a chain tool and measure from roller to roller.
Or three, to use some combination of the two.

Or perhaps there is a fourth - ignore the whole thing as a tempest in
a tea pot :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Since the switch to cassettes (8+ cogs) from freewheels https://www..sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html , the axle width has remained the same while the cog teeth and chains have become narrower. Since the load and the length are the same, the pressure per square inch has increased to the point where an 11 speed chain basically needs changed with the tire. Single speed chains will basically last until rusty.

I get 3 tires out of a 11 speed chain and if the same criteria is used for replacement for a single speed chain as for a 11 speed than the difference is that much.


Lou, I understood the first bit well enough but couldn't quite make out the single speed chain wear part.


Tom I rode a single speed for a long time in the winter and the last years a bike with a gear hub (I'm getting old) and the chains on those bikes wore much faster than the chains on my road bikes. Of coarse the conditions are different but not so much that it would explain the wear rate. You can get away with it as long as you don't replace the cog and the chain ring until the teeth are completely gone and that takes a long time.

You must either buy cheap tires or ride a hell of a lot more than I do in order to wear out 3 tires per chain.


I ride 7000 km on my road bikes, that means two new rear tires. I use only Continental GP4000S. Chains are Campagnolo Record 11 speed. Most of the times I get 10000 km out of that chain except this last time when I encountered a remarkable difference between the chains on my two road bikes.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vZ4zMH61d6mGl84C2

From top to bottom: new chain, chain on one road bike after about 9500 km and the chain on the other road bike after 7500 km. Only difference I see is that I used a different lube for a while. Still puzzles me.

Lou


I wear out perhaps a Gatorskin and a half per chain. But I mostly replace chains early since they're relatively cheap and better a chain than wearing out a cassette.


I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life.
  #33  
Old September 18th 17, 02:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Chain Stretch

On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
snip

I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold.. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life.


Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that allowed me to keep track of household expenses. It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the mortgage. Goddamn! Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage. I better stop paying that.

Same way with chains and cassettes. Wow, look how much I'm replacing those chains. I better stop doing that.

Once you've settled on a chain/cassette/tire brand and model, it's just a fixed cost, and it really doesn't matter how long it lasted. I've settled on my chains -- KMC comes with a quick link, it is reasonably priced and last longer than SRAM. I don't like the pins on Shimano chains and don't want to pay for a separate quick-link. I buy Shimano cassettes -- 105 level or above, and my tires vary somewhat, but fast tires are close-out Pro4 Service Courses. I bought four today for $25 (after discount for picking up in store) a pop at Western Bikeworks. Two will go to my son for Christmas. It's a first-class fast road tire for a song.

Gatorskins are the go-to commuter bike tire, but they're over-priced and rarely go on a good sale, so I try sale table tires. The more durable, the more they ride like wagon wheels. I still have a Bontrager front tire that I got off a sale table more than three years ago. It just won't die -- and I want it to die.

OT, but Portland had the worst air in the US yesterday because of all the forest fires. It was a little better today, and I went on a ride with some friends -- and a few hours ago, rain rolled in. It's been dry for months. This will be great for the forest fires, the air and lawns -- but it signals the beginning of many months of riding on wet pavement and my annual quest for really grippy tires with good rolling resistance. Something in the 32mm range, so if anyone has a suggestion, let me know.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #35  
Old September 18th 17, 01:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Chain Stretch

On 17/09/2017 1:45 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 12:30:48 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 4:49:05 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
I've been thinking about chain wear, sometimes called chain stretch,
and have done a bit of research on the subject.

One method is to lay the chain on a flat surface and measure the wear
over, perhaps 12 inches of chain length, from the head of one pin to
another. But modern multi speed chains are a bit more complex then the
old fashioned chains and the rollers on a modern chain are not
supported by the pins but by protrusions on the inner surface of the
inner links thus does the distance from roller to roller relate to
distance from pin to pin?

Another method is to ignore the pin to pin distance and simply measure
the roller to roller distance using a chain gauge. But I have also
read that when comparing roller to roller measurement to pin to pin
measurement there is not necessarily a correlation, or in other words
a pin to pin measurement might show one thing while the roller to
roller might show a totally different wear pattern. In addition I read
that in at least one case the roller to roller wear was not constant
and varied from place to place in the length of the chain

Brandt, I believe, wrote a treatise on chain measuring gauges and
argued that nearly all of them gave an incorrect figure for wear, or
perhaps, did it the wrong way.

So the question is what is the best system to use to avoid unnecessary
sprocket wear, assuming that sprockets cost more and are more trouble
to change than chains.

There seems to be three options. One, to use a ruler and measure from
pin to pin. Two to use a chain tool and measure from roller to roller.
Or three, to use some combination of the two.

Or perhaps there is a fourth - ignore the whole thing as a tempest in
a tea pot :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.


Since the switch to cassettes (8+ cogs) from freewheels
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html , the axle width has remained the same while the cog teeth and chains have become narrower. Since the load and the length are the same, the pressure per square inch has increased to the point where an 11 speed chain basically needs changed with the tire. Single speed chains will basically last until rusty.

I get 3 tires out of a 11 speed chain and if the same criteria is used for replacement for a single speed chain as for a 11 speed than the difference is that much.


How many chains do you get out of a cassette?

  #36  
Old September 18th 17, 02:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Chain Stretch

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 2:21:11 PM UTC+2, duane wrote:
On 17/09/2017 1:45 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 12:30:48 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 4:49:05 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
I've been thinking about chain wear, sometimes called chain stretch,
and have done a bit of research on the subject.

One method is to lay the chain on a flat surface and measure the wear
over, perhaps 12 inches of chain length, from the head of one pin to
another. But modern multi speed chains are a bit more complex then the
old fashioned chains and the rollers on a modern chain are not
supported by the pins but by protrusions on the inner surface of the
inner links thus does the distance from roller to roller relate to
distance from pin to pin?

Another method is to ignore the pin to pin distance and simply measure
the roller to roller distance using a chain gauge. But I have also
read that when comparing roller to roller measurement to pin to pin
measurement there is not necessarily a correlation, or in other words
a pin to pin measurement might show one thing while the roller to
roller might show a totally different wear pattern. In addition I read
that in at least one case the roller to roller wear was not constant
and varied from place to place in the length of the chain

Brandt, I believe, wrote a treatise on chain measuring gauges and
argued that nearly all of them gave an incorrect figure for wear, or
perhaps, did it the wrong way.

So the question is what is the best system to use to avoid unnecessary
sprocket wear, assuming that sprockets cost more and are more trouble
to change than chains.

There seems to be three options. One, to use a ruler and measure from
pin to pin. Two to use a chain tool and measure from roller to roller..
Or three, to use some combination of the two.

Or perhaps there is a fourth - ignore the whole thing as a tempest in
a tea pot :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Since the switch to cassettes (8+ cogs) from freewheels
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html , the axle width has remained the same while the cog teeth and chains have become narrower. Since the load and the length are the same, the pressure per square inch has increased to the point where an 11 speed chain basically needs changed with the tire. Single speed chains will basically last until rusty.

I get 3 tires out of a 11 speed chain and if the same criteria is used for replacement for a single speed chain as for a 11 speed than the difference is that much.


How many chains do you get out of a cassette?


2 sometimes 3. With these numbers cost of cassette and chains become irrelevant.

Lou
  #37  
Old September 18th 17, 02:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Chain Stretch

On 18/09/2017 9:23 AM, wrote:
On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 2:21:11 PM UTC+2, duane wrote:
On 17/09/2017 1:45 AM,
wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 12:30:48 AM UTC+2, wrote:
On Friday, September 15, 2017 at 4:49:05 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
I've been thinking about chain wear, sometimes called chain stretch,
and have done a bit of research on the subject.

One method is to lay the chain on a flat surface and measure the wear
over, perhaps 12 inches of chain length, from the head of one pin to
another. But modern multi speed chains are a bit more complex then the
old fashioned chains and the rollers on a modern chain are not
supported by the pins but by protrusions on the inner surface of the
inner links thus does the distance from roller to roller relate to
distance from pin to pin?

Another method is to ignore the pin to pin distance and simply measure
the roller to roller distance using a chain gauge. But I have also
read that when comparing roller to roller measurement to pin to pin
measurement there is not necessarily a correlation, or in other words
a pin to pin measurement might show one thing while the roller to
roller might show a totally different wear pattern. In addition I read
that in at least one case the roller to roller wear was not constant
and varied from place to place in the length of the chain

Brandt, I believe, wrote a treatise on chain measuring gauges and
argued that nearly all of them gave an incorrect figure for wear, or
perhaps, did it the wrong way.

So the question is what is the best system to use to avoid unnecessary
sprocket wear, assuming that sprockets cost more and are more trouble
to change than chains.

There seems to be three options. One, to use a ruler and measure from
pin to pin. Two to use a chain tool and measure from roller to roller.
Or three, to use some combination of the two.

Or perhaps there is a fourth - ignore the whole thing as a tempest in
a tea pot :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Since the switch to cassettes (8+ cogs) from freewheels
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/free-k7.html , the axle width has remained the same while the cog teeth and chains have become narrower. Since the load and the length are the same, the pressure per square inch has increased to the point where an 11 speed chain basically needs changed with the tire. Single speed chains will basically last until rusty.

I get 3 tires out of a 11 speed chain and if the same criteria is used for replacement for a single speed chain as for a 11 speed than the difference is that much.


How many chains do you get out of a cassette?


2 sometimes 3. With these numbers cost of cassette and chains become irrelevant.


For me too, it's usually 2 or 3. But mine get replaced more like every
3000km per chain if I keep them clean. Every 2500 if I don't. So the
cost is not irrelevant. I'm using SRAM chains and cassettes with 11-28t
and a mid compact (52/36) crank. I don't spin well though so I'm sure
hammering uses the chain up more quickly. Plus hills.

  #38  
Old September 18th 17, 03:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Chain Stretch

On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 6:02:11 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
snip

I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance.. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life.


Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that allowed me to keep track of household expenses. It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the mortgage. Goddamn! Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage. I better stop paying that.

Same way with chains and cassettes. Wow, look how much I'm replacing those chains. I better stop doing that.

Once you've settled on a chain/cassette/tire brand and model, it's just a fixed cost, and it really doesn't matter how long it lasted. I've settled on my chains -- KMC comes with a quick link, it is reasonably priced and last longer than SRAM. I don't like the pins on Shimano chains and don't want to pay for a separate quick-link. I buy Shimano cassettes -- 105 level or above, and my tires vary somewhat, but fast tires are close-out Pro4 Service Courses. I bought four today for $25 (after discount for picking up in store) a pop at Western Bikeworks. Two will go to my son for Christmas. It's a first-class fast road tire for a song.

Gatorskins are the go-to commuter bike tire, but they're over-priced and rarely go on a good sale, so I try sale table tires. The more durable, the more they ride like wagon wheels. I still have a Bontrager front tire that I got off a sale table more than three years ago. It just won't die -- and I want it to die.

OT, but Portland had the worst air in the US yesterday because of all the forest fires. It was a little better today, and I went on a ride with some friends -- and a few hours ago, rain rolled in. It's been dry for months. This will be great for the forest fires, the air and lawns -- but it signals the beginning of many months of riding on wet pavement and my annual quest for really grippy tires with good rolling resistance. Something in the 32mm range, so if anyone has a suggestion, let me know.


Shimano's chains now come with quick links.
  #40  
Old September 18th 17, 04:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Chain Stretch

On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 7:18:26 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 6:02:11 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 2:43:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
snip

I don't know the wear characteristics of the GP4000S but would assume that it is slightly less that the Gatorskin whose entire purpose is to live a long hard life.

I have been trying to make a list of components so that I can keep track of lifespan but I've changed bikes so often until the last year that I have to start fresh.

Rather than those super expensive Campy chains you might try the KMC Gold. These are supposed to be "lubed for life" but I put so much faith in that, that I lube them at regular intervals. One of the things I do more carefully now is to clean the outside of the chain off. This seems to cut down on that thick crud build-up on the cassette.

I just got back from a 30 mile ride (50km). 12 miles of it was on a gravel access road to the San Francisco Bay Shoreline Trail. Since this was on my regular road bike with 23 mm tires, it beat me up pretty good. That probably doesn't help tire wear much and so I don't know if I can compare tire life and chain life.

I'm far more concerned about cassette life though since 10 speed cassettes are so expensive for a reasonably light version.

I don't particularly like Gatorskins because they do not roll very well and they aren't very good in corners. I tried the ThickSlick and it was a little better and cheap but when it got a cut the rubber started peeling away from the casing. Not a lot but some.

I tried Specialized Armadillos and they are very good all around. I seem to remember in the past that they got goat's head flats but the set I bought a year ago didn't get any. Their problem is the staggering cost compared to other tires. Almost twice the cost of the competition. And you can only get them at a Specialized dealer.

I tried the Michelin Pro4 Endurance and really liked them. They roll and corner like a sew-up. It was VERY noticeable. And I didn't get any flats with them. But apparently they had trouble with them peeling off of the carcass like I got with the ThickSlick.

So they released and improved version: The Michelin Power Endurance. I have a set of those on the shelf and will install them on the Pinarello Stelvio I'm rebuilding. I hope they perform like the Pro4 Endurance because I REALLY liked them.

It's not often when you can actually feel the difference in performance. I had an Eddy Merckx Strata OS that I can kick myself for selling but that was in my moving to carbon fiber phase. That was the most perfect riding bike I ever had - better than a Basso Loto. Though with any luck I think that the Pinarello will match it. The Basso flexes just the slightest amount too much. The Stelvio uses the same tubes but the bottom bracket isn't quite as low as the Basso and the wheelbase is 2 cm shorter. That should cure the flex.

For a CX I've had several bikes. The Ridley Longbow actually felt much better than anything else but both of my Redlines were faster though they didn't ride nearly as good. They were perhaps a little lighter but their geometry is such that you can jump off of them at the last second on these 25+% climbs just as the front wheel begins to lift. And they descend these drops pretty well with minimal braking.

So now I'm in a position where I'm pretty satisfied with my bikes and can keep track of component life.


Hats off to people who keep track of all of this, but it kind of reminds me when I got one of those early Quicken programs that allowed me to keep track of household expenses. It produced an expense pie chart, and a huge slice of my personal pie was the mortgage. Goddamn! Look how much I'm spending on the mortgage. I better stop paying that.

Same way with chains and cassettes. Wow, look how much I'm replacing those chains. I better stop doing that.

Once you've settled on a chain/cassette/tire brand and model, it's just a fixed cost, and it really doesn't matter how long it lasted. I've settled on my chains -- KMC comes with a quick link, it is reasonably priced and last longer than SRAM. I don't like the pins on Shimano chains and don't want to pay for a separate quick-link. I buy Shimano cassettes -- 105 level or above, and my tires vary somewhat, but fast tires are close-out Pro4 Service Courses. I bought four today for $25 (after discount for picking up in store) a pop at Western Bikeworks. Two will go to my son for Christmas.. It's a first-class fast road tire for a song.

Gatorskins are the go-to commuter bike tire, but they're over-priced and rarely go on a good sale, so I try sale table tires. The more durable, the more they ride like wagon wheels. I still have a Bontrager front tire that I got off a sale table more than three years ago. It just won't die -- and I want it to die.

OT, but Portland had the worst air in the US yesterday because of all the forest fires. It was a little better today, and I went on a ride with some friends -- and a few hours ago, rain rolled in. It's been dry for months. This will be great for the forest fires, the air and lawns -- but it signals the beginning of many months of riding on wet pavement and my annual quest for really grippy tires with good rolling resistance. Something in the 32mm range, so if anyone has a suggestion, let me know.


Shimano's chains now come with quick links.


I see that Shimano offers one, but I don't think it is being shipped with the chains. https://www.coloradocyclist.com/shim...11-speed-chain It looks like a $15 add-on (for two). https://www.coloradocyclist.com/shim...-11-quick-link Does anyone know if the new 11sp Shimano chains are shipping with quick links?


I used a KMC quick link with Shimano chains in the past on bikes that came with Shimano chains OE, so using a quick link has always been an option, but I just didn't like paying the extra charge when you can get a KMC chain (who makes chains for Shimano) with the link included.

-- Jay Beattie.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chain stretch - actual tech. James[_8_] Techniques 22 March 7th 13 01:34 PM
chain stretch question Mark Cleary[_2_] Techniques 16 November 16th 09 04:32 PM
Scary chain stretch Alan Braggins UK 1 December 17th 05 10:45 PM
Does chain stretch really exist? Ken Marcet Techniques 15 March 5th 05 10:15 PM
chain un-stretch? larry english Techniques 2 August 12th 03 06:41 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.