Switzerland mountain roads questions

sergio wrote
I vote for Grosse Scheidegg, too.

Good, then I'll add my vote.

In the area I was told there is a nice steep road
going up from Grndelwald to Kleine Scheidegg.

I doubt that such a road is paved. I don't have mountain bike map for the
Grindelwald area.

(If I really want to ride wilder unpaved stuff closer to higher mountains,
why don't I just rent a serious mountain bike and ride sections of the
official Switzerland mountain bike route #1?)

Bicyclists are tolerated on the new (Autostrada) San Gottardo.
Luckmanier?: I would avoid.

that's both good + bad for me:
because one of the main reasons I wanted to ride over San Gottardo /
Gotthard was to make a loop with Lucomagno / Lukmanier and Oberalp.

Sanetsch is fine and quiet, but there are also so many beautiful roads
that are dead-end (no through traffic) which I have never explored.

Sounds like an opportunity for future exploration. I'm happy to start with
Sanetsch - (does it make any sense to continue north from Col du Sanetsch
and descent to Gsteig?)
After that I don't think my first choice would be to ride up to major
resorts like Zermatt or Saas Fee. Somehow the Zinal / Val d'Annivers seems
like a possibility -- maybe because I've never been there.

Ken

Ken Roberts wrote:

Stelvio and Gavia!!! Don't miss them if you ever ride the Alps.

Stelvio is rather close to Switzerland, and the day Tony and I rode
it last summer our loop went thru Switzerland, so it fits the thread
topic. And I thought it was a really great that day, here's some
photos:

http://roberts-1.com/t/b08/itj/k/a

Great photos and wonderful weather. When I ride there I hear Va
Pensiero from Nabucco in my head. I think Giuseppe Verdi must have
been a closet bikie.

http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/0/...-pensiero.html

But I think a lot depends on weather and snow cover. Like a German
rider I met in September at Passo Tonale told me he didn't like
Stelvio but did like Gavia -- but admitted that it was a sunny day
on Gavia and cloudy on Stelvio. I myself was unimpressed the first
time I climbed the east side of Stelvio three years ago on a cloudy
day with little snow remaining in September, but very impressed with
climbing the east side in June this year on a sunny day with lots of
snow remaining from big late-spring storms.

For sheer adventure and remoteness, Col de la Seigne and Col Ferret
on the south side of Mont Blanc are memorably great passes.

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i59.html

Yes definitely for those willing to incorporate hiking and/or rough
dirt/gravel (and possible sticky mud) in their bicycle touring. Not
just for the adventure -- the close views of the Mont Blanc massif
are very spectacular. Thanks to the suggestions and web pages of
Jobst, I've ridden over both of them. I will gladly ride again over
Col du Grand Ferret (on the Italy / Switzerland border) in favorable
conditions. Col de la Seigne I'm not planning to repeat -- the road
on the Italian side was just too rocky at the time I did it -- but
I'm glad I did once.

Then there is the great San Giacomo, from Crevola d'Ossola in the
Simplon to the Val Bedretto on the Nufenen pass.

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i54.html
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i53.html

Va Pensiero!

Jobst Brandt

sergio wrote
I rode once only up to Rifugio Elisabetta.
Is the road worse farther up, or did you find it just as bad?

I think it's more of a hiking trail higher up, on both sides of Col de la
Seigne. The views are really great (on both sides), but I don't think it's
much fun riding it on a road bike. Put me on a mountain bike with a front
suspension and I'd consider it. (and then I'd also consider riding some
other dirt-path passes higher and closer the Mont Blanc massif, e.g.
Bonhomme)

To me Col du Grand Ferret is different, because if you take it southwest to
northeast, then you do lots of hiking and rolling and carrying climbing up
from the refuge, but then the northeast side is mostly ridable -- so I get
the reward of a descent for my labor of hiking.
But on Seigne I'm not a good enough descender on unpaved rocky hiking trails
for it to feel like the downhill is a reward.

Also the times I ride over terrain with substantial bumps, the more likely
that things get loose or break on my bike. Bike repairs are not something I
need to get involved with more times on a big trip outside my home region.

Ken

sergio wrote
I surely do hope you did not duplicate my mistake.
Taking the bike path along the southern side of the
Brienzer Lake, east of Interlaken.

I took the road on the northwest side of the lake to avoid _my_ mistake of
riding the bike path along the south side my first time doing a loop over
Grosse Scheidegg.
Not only do I believe that Grosse Scheidegg is worth riding again, I've
already ridden it a second time.

Ken

Ken Roberts wrote:

I rode once only up to Rifugio Elisabetta. Is the road worse
farther up, or did you find it just as bad?

I think it's more of a hiking trail higher up, on both sides of Col
de la Seigne. The views are really great (on both sides), but I
don't think it's much fun riding it on a road bike. Put me on a
mountain bike with a front suspension and I'd consider it. (and then
I'd also consider riding some other dirt-path passes higher and
closer the Mont Blanc massif, e.g. Bonhomme)

There is only a short steep section on the east approach that is
rocky:

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i60.html

Here it is on the west side, coming and going:

http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/i59.html
http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/f85.html

weather up here is always variable.

To me Col du Grand Ferret is different, because if you take it
southwest to northeast, then you do lots of hiking and rolling and
carrying climbing up from the refuge, but then the northeast side is
mostly ridable -- so I get the reward of a descent for my labor of
hiking. But on Seigne I'm not a good enough descender on unpaved
rocky hiking trails for it to feel like the downhill is a reward.

The Col Ferret is a lot shorter but in the same east-west valley. For
a young and healthy bikie, its a great adventure and mostly riding
down the east slope.

Also the times I ride over terrain with substantial bumps, the more
likely that things get loose or break on my bike. Bike repairs are
not something I need to get involved with more times on a big trip
outside my home region.

We were once all young and beautiful:

http://tinyurl.com/5uzfgy

but that doesn't mean you can't go there anymore. I've been going
back for more than 50 years and love it every time. Nostalgia is a
great emotion. I first saw these roads when most were unpaved in
1948. One of my great adventures was staying in Hotel Belvedere in
the year that it reopened after more than 60 years closure. When I
first saw it from our family cars as a youngster, I said I would some
day stay there... I did!

http://rhone.riverama.com/rhoneglacier.php

Jobst Brandt

On 21 Ott, 00:17, wrote:
*I first saw these roads when most were unpaved
in
1948. *One of my great adventures was staying in Hotel Belvedere in
the year that it reopened after more than 60 years closure. *When I
first saw it from our family cars as a youngster, I said I would some
day stay there... *I did!
*http://rhone.riverama.com/rhoneglacier.php

I see, Jobst.
You were so lucky as to have parents that left such an imprinting onto
you.
Hotel Belvedere is in a great place, so crowded (with reason).
This year, having read your report about it, I recommended friends to
lodge at Hotel Rosenlaui where myself I had never stopped. They found
it marvellous and are surely going back next year to ride and hike.
Their thanks to you, though indirectly.

Sergio
Pisa

Jobst&Ken,
here is a suggestion for you, or anyone else as a
matter of fact: a little known road in the Dolomites. From Braies to
Pratopiazza, easy and beautiful: a true jewel!
To make a loop up you can ascend from Carbonin. On this side the road
is a rocky path and barebly possible to ride with a racing bicycle,
though I managed to do it.

Sergio
Pisa

Ken Roberts used his keyboard to write :
sergio wrote
I vote for Grosse Scheidegg, too.

Good, then I'll add my vote.

In the area I was told there is a nice steep road
going up from Grndelwald to Kleine Scheidegg.

I doubt that such a road is paved. I don't have mountain bike map for the
Grindelwald area.

This road is paved - actually the climb from the other side (Meiringen)
is far more beautiful and has a minor part unpaved, but hard enough to
bicycle on your road bike. In fact the postal bus takes this rad as
well (and has and takes priority always!)

(If I really want to ride wilder unpaved stuff closer to higher mountains,
why don't I just rent a serious mountain bike and ride sections of the
official Switzerland mountain bike route #1?)

Bicyclists are tolerated on the new (Autostrada) San Gottardo.
Luckmanier?: I would avoid.

that's both good + bad for me:
because one of the main reasons I wanted to ride over San Gottardo / Gotthard
was to make a loop with Lucomagno / Lukmanier and Oberalp.

Sanetsch is fine and quiet, but there are also so many beautiful roads
that are dead-end (no through traffic) which I have never explored.

Sounds like an opportunity for future exploration. I'm happy to start with
Sanetsch - (does it make any sense to continue north from Col du Sanetsch and
descent to Gsteig?)
After that I don't think my first choice would be to ride up to major resorts
like Zermatt or Saas Fee. Somehow the Zinal / Val d'Annivers seems like a
possibility -- maybe because I've never been there.

North part of Sanetsch is heavily unpaved, you have to carry your bike
or take the cable car.
Ken

sergio expressed precisely :
On 20 Ott, 21:58, "Ken Roberts"
wrote:

Col de Sanetsch is a 'must do'
Thanks, it's now on my list.

If it is as I found it a few years ago, be sure you have an electric
lamp at hand.

Sergio
Pisa

I heard that now the tunnel is illuminated

Ken Roberts formulated the question :
sergio wrote
I vote for Grosse Scheidegg, too.

Good, then I'll add my vote.

In the area I was told there is a nice steep road
going up from Grndelwald to Kleine Scheidegg.

I doubt that such a road is paved. I don't have mountain bike map for the
Grindelwald area.

This road is not paved!

(If I really want to ride wilder unpaved stuff closer to higher mountains,
why don't I just rent a serious mountain bike and ride sections of the
official Switzerland mountain bike route #1?)

Bicyclists are tolerated on the new (Autostrada) San Gottardo.
Luckmanier?: I would avoid.

that's both good + bad for me:
because one of the main reasons I wanted to ride over San Gottardo / Gotthard
was to make a loop with Lucomagno / Lukmanier and Oberalp.

Sanetsch is fine and quiet, but there are also so many beautiful roads
that are dead-end (no through traffic) which I have never explored.

Sounds like an opportunity for future exploration. I'm happy to start with
Sanetsch - (does it make any sense to continue north from Col du Sanetsch and
descent to Gsteig?)

North of Col de Sanetsch you have to carry your bike or take the cable
car.

After that I don't think my first choice would be to ride up to major resorts
like Zermatt or Saas Fee. Somehow the Zinal / Val d'Annivers seems like a
possibility -- maybe because I've never been there.

Zermatt/Saas Fee is a bit boring - rather flat. The views at the end of
the climbs give some compensation though.

I personnaly would like to climb the road to Lac de Dixence...

Ken